Episode 158: Socializing in Japan vs the US

K: So lately I’ve been thinking about social groups in Japan and our socialization.
C: Okay.
K: And, the first one that pops out in my mind is the American Chamber of Commerce [in] Japan, but that to me kind of feels like, I don’t know, like a low-key country club, because it’s… for me, it’s super expensive to belong to.
C: Yes.
K: What do you think?
C: I think it is.
K: Okay. Because how much are annual dues for an individual member?
C: 75,000 yen.
K: And so that’s like, roughly 750 US dollars.
C: I think right now it’s closer to 700 dollars, but yeah.
K: And so for me, that’s super expensive because it doesn’t even cover any of the things that you would do as a member, so to go to an event that the ACCJ is hosting, you also have to pay to do that.
C: Yes.
K: And the events usually run about 2,000 yen or more.
C: They usually run 4,500 or more.
K: Okay. Wow. Yowza. That’s expensive. That’ll add up.
C: Yes. The 2,000 yen events are in an empty room, and the 4,000+ events have food, so…
K: Oh, okay. So you don’t mean an empty room, you mean just members with no food.
C: Yeah, that’s true.
K: So I was the first one to join the chamber. And I was a member for about two or three years, I want to say.
C: Umm, yeah, that sounds right.
K: Because we went to the mixer together.
C: Yes, we did.
K: The first… it was the beginning of the year party.
C: Right.
K: The shinnenkai. And we both attended. And I met a lot of people that I thought were cool, and I saw some people that I already knew, and so I thought being a member would be fun, and I joined the Independent Business Committee
C: That’s right.
K: And so, I have a small business… they had a lot of great things that I valued, and I really enjoyed the other members. But, they held the meetings like right at prime-time client time for me, so, like a Thursday night at 6 o’clock is almost always booked for me.
C: Yes.
K: And, like, the 6 o’clock slot and the 7:30 slot are almost always booked, so I usually work until 9 pm. So anything that’s scheduled Tuesday through Saturday, you know, between 6 and 9 pm, forget about it. I’m not going to be able to attend. And then mid-afternoon, I sometimes I have time in the mid afternoon, like the Women in Business committee always wanted to meet like at Tuesday at 3:00.
C: Right.
K: And I’m booked. I have clients. I can’t, you know… I’m running my business. So I didn’t feel like there was anything, any meetings that were consistently at a time where I could go. Even like the big Women in Business Convention that they do every year. One year I took off work and went to the one in Tokyo, which was a lot of fun, and I went with your former boss and we had a great time. And… but the ones here in Nagoya, I could never attend those. I always had to choose. Either Tokyo’s event or Nagoya’s event.
C: Right.
K: And I would sponsor it, but when I sponsored it they didn’t always give me what they had agreed to when I sponsored, so I have nothing against the ACCJ, but I just didn’t feel like it was value added for me at the price tag that it was coming in at.
C: I think a lot of the smaller members… so, I’m the treasurer for the regional chapter, so I’m the regional treasurer. A lot of the smaller company members struggle to see value in it. So in Tokyo, it’s a lot easier to see because most of the members are in Tokyo. If you’re in Tokyo, there’s several things a day that you can choose from. Here in Nagoya, there’s usually a few things a month to choose from. And sometimes as few as 1 event a month. So it is harder if you’re not a larger business to kind of… do things.
K: Well, and I felt like, too, the committee heads never polled the members to see when meetings would be most convenient. Because I knew the heads of the two groups that I belonged to, and both of those could have done them on Mondays when I could have attended.
C: Yes.
K: And several other members were like “Yeah, Mondays would totally work for me”, but nobody was really interested, so I didn’t feel like the committees really cared whether I attended meetings.
C: I think that happens a lot with volunteer organizations, especially if people pay to belong to the volunteer organization. So I’ve looked at other groups here in Nagoya, like Kiwanis Club, and Rotary, and Toastmasters and things. They just set it for whatever time is convenient for the person running it. Which, fair enough, but that does limit its usefulness for the people who are not running it.
K: So what’s challenging for me is that all the leaders said “Yeah, Monday would work” for them, but they just didn’t want to.
C: Right.
K: And so for me, I was like “Right on, you can totally make that choice. I’m going to make the choice to leave the chamber.”
C: Mmhmm.
K: And so I don’t have any malice or anything, but I think … and I really was promoting the Chamber and several people from other groups I belong to are now Chamber members and all of that, because I do think that the Chamber is good for the people who can make time to attend.
C: Yes.
K: And I just don’t have that flexibility in my schedule. My schedule is really rigid, which I’m grateful for.
C: So most of the people that I work for have that flexibility. They work for companies that give them time off to do it, or they have businesses where their hours are more flexible than yours are. Because they do things like editing or translation. There’s a few people in that. But that was not, you know, sitting in a seat with your client.
K: Yes, so for me, at the beginning I was scheduling time off and not booking clients in those times and going, but I have to be honest. While I liked the people, I didn’t really feel connected to them in the way that inspired me to build close intimate relationships with anybody in the chamber. Like, I liked them all, but I don’t really have a close relationship with any of them.
C: Yeah.
K: And, I think had I developed a closer relationship, I probably would have stayed. Because you have some really close relationships in the chamber.
C: Yeah. And I think that’s usual groups of foreigners here in Japan, is that if you have something more in common than just being foreign, it’s much easier to develop a cohesive group.
K: Yeah. So what more do you have in common with Chamber members?
C: When I joined and until very recently, I had in common that I was trying to promote a business that I was working for. And now, I have in common that I have an interest in business and a lot of knowledge about it. So… I notice now people want to pick my brain about business. And I like talking about it, so that’s always a balance, though, of “At what point am I being exploited?” (K laughs)
K: Which you’re joking. That deadpan delivery people are going to think you’re seriously worried about the Chamber exploiting you, which you’re not.
C: No, I have good boundaries.
K: Yeah. So, for me, I feel like you’ve developed some friendships because you go to lunches and things outside of Chamber meetings.
C: Yes, correct.
K: So do you feel like that’s where your close friendships come from in Japan?
C: I think the people that I know here in Japan, with one exception who is somebody who lives in Nagoya that I’ve known since we lived in California
K: Since your undergrad
C: Yes, since undergrad. What, gosh… at least 15 years now.
K: Yeah.
C: With that exception, I think that’s most of the people I’ve met, either directly or indirectly. So I’ve gone to other business-related events, like Greater Nagoya Association, and met people. So, not everybody I know is from that, but most people are tangential at least.
K: Yeah. So, we also tried Meetups.
C: Yup.
K: And… I think you had a lot of fun at the meetup we went to.
C: I had a lot of fun at the meetup we went to. We went to a café, and there were probably thirty people there, and it was a mix of Japanese people and foreign people and the point of that was to practice speaking English or Japanese, whichever was not your native language.
K: Yes.
C: I had a lot of fun. It was kind of a random group of people. And so I think if we had continued to go to that and seen the same people over and over, then we might have developed some relationships, but just having the same conversation several times out of “Where are you from? What are your hobbies?” and “What do you do for work”? doesn’t build much relationship.
K: So why didn’t you go any other times? So I only went once because my Japanese level was too low for me to actually participate. For me to feel like I was participating during the Japanese session. Nobody was upset with how busted my Japanese was, it was just very unfulfilling for me and very time-consuming. It met on a Sunday, and so Sundays and Mondays are my two days off, and usually Mondays I’m doing paperwork or writing reports for clients. So Sunday kind of feels like my only day off. And now, being in a PhD program…
C: And when I was working, Sunday was the only day that we both had off.
K: And so for me, I just felt like, again, the value added. I didn’t feel like it was giving me a lot of value added. But I thought for you there was a lot of valued added. So why didn’t you ever go back?
C: I think because I’m autistic.
K: (laughs) What does that mean, though?
C: I like people. I’m an extravert and I like people a lot. But there’s also an initial energy hurdle that I have to get over to get out and meet people. So if I have some reason to go out, then I’m happy to be out. But it’s a steep ramp to get out there. Like, if I have to grocery shopping, and then there’s an event, then going to the event is a lot easier. I’ll just go right after I go grocery shopping. But if I’m just going out to meet people that I don’t know, then there’s some trepidation about that. And that makes that kind of hill to get up to go out, harder.
K: Yeah, because you went out to get to know the people at the ACCJ while I was still a member.
C: Yes.
K: And so, I went to several events with me.
C: And, I have ulterior motives for going. I was helping to develop the company here in Nagoya, establish an office …
K: But, the reason that you really liked it, though, is you felt like it could be a good base for you to make friends.
C: Yes.
K: Which, is why we still continue to pay privately for you to go.
C: Yes.
K: So, there’s some … So for me, in Nagoya, there is over 60 meetup groups, if you look at the app Meetups.
C: Right.
K: And now, the reason why I don’t go to meetups, because I completely believe in meetups. I think they’re amazing. I think it’s an amazing app. I love the concept. When it first hit Japan, that’s when we went to meetups, when they were first starting. There was only like, three groups in Nagoya. So, gosh, that was like, seven years ago.
C: Yes, there was Meetups, and there was InterNations. And, I know InterNations still sends you things occasionally.
K: Yeah.
C: But, they don’t really have a lot going on. I think there’s a, not a schism, because it’s not any animosity, but there’s a difference between people who are here only temporarily, and people here permanently.
K: Yeah, or long-term.
C: Or long-term. And, not all groups can accommodate that. And, I think that the purpose for being here can kind of affect what you expect. So, because we’re permanent residents… I like meeting people. If you’re only here for two or three years in Nagoya, and you want to meet me, just send us an email or whatever. But, it’s hard to pony up the energy to develop a friendship, knowing somebody is going to leave in 18 months.
K: Yeah, unless there’s an activity. Because, I know for Rasta, he’s really big into D&D, Dungeons and Dragons.
C: Yeah.
K: And he has a … There’s a local bar that hosts a Monday night game that he goes to. And I think two of the players in the group are probably leaving in a year or two. And for him, because they meet to game, it’s not a big deal.
C: Oh, yeah.
K: It’s just like, okay, we’ve got to make sure that we’re having more people come in.
C: There are several local board gaming groups that meet to play board games in English. And then, there are also the kind of mixed groups, where it’s English speakers and Japanese speakers. And so, I think it depends on a purpose. If you’re meeting for an activity, I think it’s less important how long the people are here. You can enjoy the moment.
K: Yeah, and for me, now what prevents me from doing meetups is that I would run into clients.
C: Mm-hmm.
K: And, so when meetups were just starting, it was such a small group that if I had gotten in and stayed in that group, then the way that I run my practice and my rules of therapy would be like, if I’m in a group, and I belong to the group, and you then join the group after me, you join being aware that I’m a part of that group.
C: Right.
K: But, if I seek to join a group, and there’s a client already a member of that group, then I don’t join.
C: Right.
K: And, most of the meetups in Japan have that possibility, the potentiality of a client being there. And, because I never confirm or deny anyone’s my client, I find that it’s easier to just not try and join these groups.
C: Mm-hmm.
K: And so for me, I like joining closed groups rather than open groups because closed groups allow me privacy with my behavior in the group, and also, allow clients to have a legit way of saying that they know me, other than as therapist.
C: Right.
K: And, I’ve been here for quite a while, over 10 years. So, just knowing me doesn’t say that you’re my client. I have a social life.
C: No, we’re well-known among the English-speaking community of Nagoya, so …
K: Yeah, and I’m well-known among the Japanese-speaking community, because I work with the Child Guidance Center, which is the Japanese child protective services. I work with several ward offices. I’ve testified in criminal court. And, I know several family lawyers. So, the Japanese-speaking community kind of knows who I am, and they refer to me. And so, I do work with Japanese nationals. And, I have Japanese nationals as friends, also. So, I feel like I have a good social and business awareness of me in both communities, both the national community and the foreign community.
K: So, knowing me doesn’t say anything to anyone, other than, you’ve met me once before the time that you’re seeing me. How do you feel about your profile? I feel like I have a really high profile in Nagoya.
C: I feel like my profile is high among long-term residents, but not as high among recent people who have only arrived recently.
K: Okay. Yeah, I feel that way too, yeah.
C: No matter, whether they’ve planned to stay a long time or not, if they’re recently here, they might not know me.
K: Yeah, I agree. So, I find that a lot of people know of me through you. And that’s why I think of you as having a high profile.
C: Mm-hmm.
K: Because a lot of people will come and see me, and they’ll be like, “Hey, I know your husband.”
C: I went to local university. I’m an officer in the Chamber of Commerce. I taught at one of the local schools. I think a lot of people know me from one of many ways.
K: Yeah.
C: And, I’m visually distinctive.
K: Yeah, because of the beard.
C: Yes, so, yes, so people who meet me generally remember meeting me.
K: So, you like to say that you have a ZZ Top beard.
C: I don’t like to say it. I have to say it, because I’m a truth teller.
K: No, no, you’re not a truth teller. Liar. Liar! Your beard comes mid chest.
C: Yes, it does.
K: Mid chest.
C: Yes.
K: No, not bottom of chest, mid chest.
C: Yep.
K: Above areola level when you’re standing up. And so, ZZ …
C: Yes, unless I look down.
K: And, a ZZ Top beard, you’re creating the expectation in me, at least, that it goes down to your belly button.
C: Yeah, but you know where my beard goes.
K: But, I feel like it’s false advertising for people who are about to meet you. I do not describe you as having a ZZ Top beard. I describe you as looking like Santa Clause before he went gray.
C: Oh, okay.
K: Because you have, like, the rosy cheeks and the sparkle in the eye, and the big round belly.
C: Yes, thank you for that.
K: I have a big round belly, too. I love our bellies.
C: I grew up in Alaska.
K: Yeah, see, you’re from the North Pole.
C: No, North Pole was 20 miles away from where I lived.
K: Okay, that 20 miles makes a difference to us lower 48ers, not at all.
C: There’s a city called North Pole, and the main road in the North Pole is Santa Claus Lane, and Santa Claus house is there.
K: Yeah, so maybe you were incognito with those 20 miles, because you didn’t want people bugging you during the off season.
C: So, and if you send a letter to Santa Claus, the post office actually delivers it there.
K: Nice.
C: So, when I was in high school, one of the activities I did when I was a senior in high school was, we answered letters to Santa.
K: Mm-hmm, did you answer them nicely?
C: Yes.
K: Did you tell them why they might not get what they want?
C: Yes, we were instructed not to promise them anything they had asked for.
K: Mm-hmm.
C: But, just to you know, compliment them on whatever they said they had achieved. And, I forget, there were guidelines to it, and they were not sent out before being checked.
K: Yeah, I think that’s a good thing, an important thing. So, along with the open groups, there are some closed groups. I don’t think you belong to any closed groups.
C: I have some writing groups that are closed, but they’re virtual. They’re not in person.
K: Okay, for me, I don’t belong to any virtual closed groups. I used to.
C: Mm-hmm.
K: I used to belong to a closed hereditary coproporphyria … They weren’t hereditary coproporphyria only, they were just porphyria.
C: Yeah.
K: A closed porphyria group, and …
C: And, I belonged to that one, too.
K: Yeah, and I don’t, I’m not as active in it anymore. And so, like, I tried to find it the other day, because it was a Yahoo Group.
C: Right.
K: And, I couldn’t find it, so I don’t know if that group even still exists. And, the group that I think … So, I belong to several closed groups. I belong to the Foreign Women in Business, Japan.
C: Mm-hmm.
K: And, that’s a group for women who own businesses in Japan, and the group comprises members that live all throughout Japan, several of the islands, and all of that.
C: So, it’s a well-named group.
K: Yes. And, I really enjoy them. And I think you know some of the members.
C: Yeah, I know quite a few of the members, because a lot of them are associated with the ACCJ as well, so …
K: Yeah, and the reason I don’t have any … I have friendly relations with a lot of, most of the women in the group. The reason why I wouldn’t consider any of them close friends of mine is because we never see each other in person, and we don’t talk outside of the group.
C: Mm-hmm.
K: So for me, I consider a close friend somebody that, if I’ve met them in a group, that I would see them one on one, and that we’d communicate outside of the group. How are you defining close friendship?
C: Oh, gosh, I don’t know.
K: Because for you, it’s not frequency. Because, your closest friend here, how often do you guys see each other? Like, once every couple of months or so?
C: A couple times a year.
K: Yeah, so how are you defining close friend?
C: I feel like close friend is more about the past history, and shared experience. And, the expectation of future experience. And then, too, character, because there are people I associate with that I think have despicable characters. And, if you’re one of the people I associate with, I’m not talking about you. I’m talking about that guy you hate.
K: That’s so ominous and dark. That took a dark turn. I don’t think anyone hates you.
C: No, no, I’m saying that I’m … Whoever I’m talking about, if you’re listening, I’m talking about the person you don’t like when I say that there are some people …
K: Oh, okay, so you’re saying that your friends alert you to who the despicable people are.
C: Exactly.
K: Okay, so yeah. I don’t have … So, the people I’m friends with, that I think of as friends, we don’t talk about other people.
C: Yeah, we don’t.
K: We don’t talk about other people in the group. We don’t talk about other people in Japan.
C: We don’t usually, either. I’m not saying that I talk with people about other people.
K: Mm-hmm.
C: What I’m saying is that, because of the ACCJ, I sometimes see people who I don’t consider friends.
K: Mm, okay.
C: Outside of the context of that group.
K: Okay, and so, you think some of the ACCJ members are despicable people, is what you’re saying.
C: I’m not necessarily saying that, because I also see a lot of people from the various universities.
K: Okay, you’re saying that in Nagoya, some despicable people live here.
C: Yes.
K: Okay, all right, yeah. I could rock with that.
C: Yes.
K: I feel really fortunate, because I don’t feel like in any of the private groups that I belong to, that there are any despicable people. And, I feel like I belong to some really, really lovely groups. Because I belong to Blacks in Japan, Black Women in Japan, Black Creatives in Japan.
C: Mm-hmm.
K: Black Nerds in Japan … I’m sensing a theme here.
C: I’m sensing a theme, too. Black noun in Japan.
K: Yes, Black Mommies in Japan, Naturals in Japan. So, most of the groups I really love and have close relationships in are groups for Blackness. Groups for Black folks. And for me, it’s what you were saying, it’s having that something other than being foreign in common.
C: Right.
K: So, I have lots of friends who are not Black, but the majority of my friends are Black.
C: Right.
K: And, I’m not biased. I welcome everybody as a friend. And, I’m open to anyone. It’s just turned out that the long-term residents that I’ve known for years and years and years, all happen to be Black.
C: Mm-hmm.
K: And, we all belong to a group. And, I think it’s easier in these groups, because we have like, movie viewing parties. We have nights out at the club. There’s like, so many more events than the other groups I belong to. Because, I belong to Foreigners in Japan, Foreigners in Nagoya, Hello Nagoya.
C: Right.
K: And, those groups don’t tend to have as many events.
C: No, they’re more information, so like, Foreigners in Nagoya is mostly people coming on, asking, “Where can I find this resource?”
K: Yeah.
C: And then, somebody who knows … Often, it’s me, I tend to answer questions in that group… will say, “Here’s where you can find that resource.”
K: Yeah.
C: “Here’s how you do this thing,” whether it’s “How do I throw away a couch?” Or, you know, “How do I tell the government that I’ve moved,” or whatever.
K: Yeah, and so, I find that the groups with Black plus Noun in Japan, I find that there are just more events. There’s more Afro events, and then, there’s more viewing events.
C: Mm-hmm.
K: There’s like, during Hanami Season, there’s always a couple of … So, cherry blossom viewing season, there’s always a couple of hey, let’s go to the park and hang out under the blossoms. And, what I like about the groups is, even though you’re not Black, you’re welcome to do like, a cherry blossom viewing, or a viewing party, or a night out to listen to jazz. There are some things that you’re not invited to, and those tend to be the Black women events. And, that’s because it’s a safe space for Black women to just embrace our Blackness and our Femaleness. And so, it is only open to women who have Blackness in them.
C: Yeah.
K: And, some people are like, “Oh, that feels exclusionary.” This, that, or the other. And I’m like, “Yeah, it is.”
C: In a literal sense, it is exclusionary, yes.
K: It is exclusionary. But, it’s about having a safe space. And so for me, it’s just … I don’t know, there’s just this ability to just relax and not have to worry about anything, and just be.
C: I mean, for me, if we were going to invite people over to our home, I’m not inviting all their friends, too.
K: Yeah, it is very much like that.
C: And so, you know, I don’t have any issues with not being invited to those events, because I think that I try my best to be unbiased. But, that doesn’t mean that other people, one, know that… and two, are convinced of that… and three, are comfortable with that.
K: So, for me, it’s not them worrying about you that I’ve experienced. It’s that, we’re triggered to behave in certain ways. And so, growing up Black, I was …
C: You mean triggered? Or socialized?
K: I say triggered.
C: Okay.
K: Because for me, I was socialized, and now I’m triggered.
C: Okay.
K: So, when I didn’t listen to my socialization, I had racist things happen to me.
C: Mm, yeah, yeah.
K: So, when what I was socialized to when I was younger was, to be really aware that you must always represent Black Excellence when you’re in mixed groups, because you may be the only Blackness that those people come in contact with.
C: Oh, yes, you are The Diversity.
K: Yes, I’m the diversity, and understand that they’re going to believe that you represent the monolith that is Blackness. Even though Blackness is not a monolith. In my own family, we’re so diverse in how we express our Blackness. And so, that … When I didn’t believe that when I was younger is, I wanted to talk to people about the difficulty of being mixed.
C: Right.
K: And, I was the only person that wasn’t white in the discussion. And, after the discussion, none of those people talked to me again. And I was like, oh, snap, this is what they mean. Don’t ever think that you can be real. And, that created a bias in me and a trigger that, I have worked to overcome the bias, but the trigger is still there. I’m not sure, like, do they want the realness?
C: Right.
K: You know, can we be really real?
C: I think that’s what I was saying earlier about getting over that energy hump.
K: Yeah.
C: I think that you have to trust people a certain amount to open up about some things. Or, just open up about it to everybody.
K: Yes.
C: And, you know, nobody wants to be the cause of other people being socially uncomfortable. Some people are perfectly willing to be that cause to accomplish other things.
K: Yeah, and I feel like there’s enough open groups, that the Black Women in Japan aren’t really taking anything away from anyone.
C: No, it’s not like if there was a white man in Japan group. Well …
K: Shout out to all my fellow queens. Love you, girls, love my sisters. Sorry I wasn’t saying African American, please forgive me. You all know I say I’m Black. Working on it.
C: And Black Women in Japan doesn’t just include Americans.
K: Right.
C: So, African American would be categorically wrong for most of the members.
K: Yes. And so, I refer to myself as Black because I just do. But, I understand that I am African American, and if you know an American, please, please know that African American is the correct and polite term, unless they tell you otherwise. So, I think we always have to call people what they wish to be called. Because I don’t know how I would feel if people were … Yeah, I guess I do. I don’t mind if people call me Black.
C: Yeah.
K: Because that’s how I identify. And, I don’t mind if people say African American. Like, those two are both okay for me. That’s not the case for everyone.
C: It’s for you.
K: Yeah, and so, for me, I feel like I’m Black because I come… I have ancestors that come from Africa, “deepest, darkest Africa”. And, I love that about my heritage. I feel like it gives me a super power, and I absolutely love it and enjoy it. It makes me, it’s all the things that are most beautiful about me. And, some people might think that that’s a biased thing to say, but I’ve earned the right to enjoy my Blackness, and I think that’s so sad that I had to earn the right to enjoy it.
C: Well, I think saying that it’s a biased thing assumes that there’s a default. And that, the default is Not Black.
K: Yes, and so, I do think that other aspects of my heritage are beautiful too, because I feel like a beautiful person. I love my ancestry. I love my heritage.
C: Yeah.
K: I’m good with it, I don’t have any issues.
C: I’m proud to be Norwegian, right?
K: Yes.
C: Like, my grandma was Norwegian, she made us fattigman cookies for Christmas. She spoke Norwegian. She spoke English too, to be clear. But, she spoke Norwegian as her native language, and had Norwegian books in the house, and read to us about the Norwegian trolls. So, I’m proud to be a Norwegian, but I’m not proud to be white, because that’s not really an identity in and of itself.
K: Yeah, so anyway, we digress. Race is another…
C: We always digress.
K: Yes, I know. Digression is our jam. But, we’re going to do a different podcast about race in Japan, because it’s different than…
C: Yeah.
K: Being Black in Japan is very different than being Black in the United States. It’s like, being Norwegian in Japan is very different than being Norwegian in the United States.
C: Yes.
K: So, another … There’s a couple of other groups I want to give a shoutout to. Nagoya Friends is an absolutely amazing, amazing, amazing group. And, the reason why I sing its praise so much is because, when our son was 18 and wanting to transition from a Go lifestyle, because the majority of his social life between, I want to say 12 and 16, was a Go club, whether it be the Igo-bun, the Go Club at Nagoya University, or the ki-in, which is a Go club in Japan.
C: Yeah, a private one.
K: Yeah, private owned. I feel like for up to 12 to 16 … so, I know I said 18, but I want to redirect. Now thinking about it, it’s 16. At 16, he was able to hang out with Nagoya Friends and Nagoya Adventure Club, and nothing shady went on.
C: Right.
K: And, nothing bad happened to him. And so, for me, they’re very near and dear to my heart, because there was a significant age gap for him and most of the participants. But, they’re all such good people, that age doesn’t matter, because they’re not out doing nefarious things. They’re doing like, good, wholesome activities that anybody can be a part of.
C: Yeah, so …
K: So, they’re very inclusive.
C: Yeah, they’re very inclusive, and a lot of people bring their kids to them. So, I don’t think the opposite of that is necessarily nefarious. Because, I know there are several groups where the focus is really, going out and drinking.
K: Yeah, and his mainstay group, his main group of friends from gosh, I want to say 16 to 19, he met through meetups.
C: Right.
K: And, they were having a serious talk meetup where they would go, they would watch a film, and then talk about the political and social implications of it.
C: Mm-hmm.
K: He’s a very serious minded kid. I think graduating college at 16, he still had that, wanting that collegial conversation and deep thinking going on.
C: Right.
K: So, that’s why I love meetups so much, and that’s why I love Nagoya Friends so much and Nagoya Adventure Club, because while I didn’t go to those things with him, he was so safe in those environments. And I think having safe environments is cool. He still does some of the events. But not so much, because now he’s busy with his D&D and dating.
C: Yeah, D&D and D.
K: So, what are … So, what’s your thoughts about Nagoya Adventure Club and Nagoya Friends? Shoutout guys, we love you.
C: I think it’s great that people invest the time and energy to kind of organize these things for themselves and for other people.
K: Yeah.
C: So, I haven’t gone to any of the events just because I have mobility problems, and then I’ve always had time management problems where it’s difficult to find the time.
K: I think with the ACCJ, you’re busy. I think the ACCJ fills up your dance card.
C: It’s part of my time management problems, yes.
K: All the lunches and everything.
C: Yeah, and when I was in university, that was really busy.
K: Yeah.
C: So, you know, I did a number of things through that, but that was mostly with Japanese students.
K: Mm-hmm.
C: Because most of the students were Japanese, so …
K: Yeah, and we hung out with professors of yours and those kinds of things.
C: Yeah, yeah.
K: So, I feel like my social life has been as rich and as diverse in Japan as it was in the United States. I think the major difference between my social life right before we left the United States, versus my social life now is that, my social life were all parents of kids that went to the same school as Rasta.
C: Yeah.
K: I didn’t have any … because when we got married, all of our friends were single, and they didn’t really … like, my female friends, especially, didn’t really transition to me being married well.
C: Mm-hmm.
K: All of them were still coming into our family home without a bra on, and that was really challenging for me. Or, wearing miniskirts, or wanting me to go out drinking. And, I was just at a very different place.
C: Yeah.
K: And, you know, because I still partied a lot and went clubbing a lot until Rasta was probably in the first or second grade. And then, I just kind of got so involved. Because school felt like it really ramped up, and so, I had to be more present in the day. And, more aware of never being hungover during the week and all of those things.
C: Right.
K: When he was younger, I could be hungover during the week, and nobody really knew that I was hungover during the week. And in kindergarten, I feel like nobody really knew. Although kindergarten, they were starting to notice that sometimes I was hungover.
K: Not that I was a drunk or anything, but you know, it happened a couple times a month.
C: Yeah.
K: And so, people started looking at you funny. And, schools are a trip. Schools will call Child Protective Services on you in a heartbeat for like, the most mundane, ridiculous things. So I was like, okay, I don’t want to be dealing with Child Protective Services. Because like, the one time they called us in.
C: Yeah, they didn’t call Child Protective Services. They called us.
K: But, they were about to, if we didn’t give them the right answers.
C: Yeah, so the school psychologist called us in. And …
K: “It’s really, we have a serious matter with Rasta. We need you to come to the school as soon as possible. Please, return this call as soon as possible.” Three times, we got that message on our phone in one day.
C: So, we returned the call and said, “Can you tell us what this is about?”
C: “No, I’m afraid you’re going to have to come down here.” So, we’re …
K: “It’s a really serious matter that we need to discuss in person.”
C: You know, we’re headed down there just wondering, like, did he damage his hands permanently playing wall ball, or you know …
K: Yeah, did he get in a fight?
C: Yeah, what happened? And, he had been doodling, I think. And one of the other students had kind of told on him.
K: Not kind of, had completely told on him.
C: Okay.
K: For doodling.
C: And so, he had doodled a monster next to a stick figure.
K: Yeah.
C: And then …
K: Said “person who tells” …
C: Person who tells …
K: … over the stick figure.
C: And then, a monster all by itself, and the monster was saying, “Yum.”
K: And then, it was a series of pictures. And then, in the next picture, it said “Monster.” And then, the stick figure was in the belly of the monster, and it said, “Person who tells.” And, they were yelling outside of the monster’s stomach, “Help, help.”
C: Yep.
K: And then, there was another … I think there was a third figure with just the monster and the stick figure.
C: Yep.
K: And, that was very ominous to them. They were like, “Are you aware that Rasta’s so violent?” And it’s just like, it took everything I had. I was so good. I was so proud of myself in that meeting.
C: You should be proud of yourself in that meeting.
K: I was like, “No, we weren’t. And we’re very concerned about it. We’re going to take this very seriously. This is completely unacceptable. And we’ll ensure that he will never do this again. And, what consequences do you think he should have at the school level?” And, they gave him Saturday school for that.
C: Yes.
K: It’s completely ridiculous. So, those kinds of incidents, like, really took our life in a different direction, in terms of how we were living.
C: Yeah, I think so. Because, I think that type of incident, because that wasn’t the only incident with that school. You know, we had incidents about his hair.
K: Yeah.
C: And, it just became clear that it was a pattern.
K: Yeah, and so, we really had to always be the best version of ourselves, because before that school, we had incidents with teachers, with him correcting teacher’s spellings, and then teachers picking on him.
C: Right.
K: So, it just felt like Rasta really needed us to be present at a different level.
C: Yeah.
K: And so, our life really became more Rasta centric, where he was the center of the universe, which, all kids should be the center of the universe.
C: Well, yeah, he …
K: I think when he was younger, he didn’t notice that he wasn’t the center of the universe, because you could strap him in a stroller, and he didn’t really care what we were doing behind pushing him.
C: I think he’s always entertained himself.
K: Yeah, we’ve been very lucky with that. He loves his own company.
C: And, when he was put in a situation where he was basically, punished for entertaining himself when he was bored, rather than looking to other people to entertain himself, then, that wasn’t a long-term, tenable situation.
K: Yeah. So, we loved the schools Rasta went to. Nothing bad to say about them. Even though, we kind of just did. No hate, we’re not hating. So, for me, I feel like now, with … Now that Rasta doesn’t live in our home anymore, the level of privacy we have and the freedom of choices we can make, I’m just, I’m not into drinking anymore, so I don’t.
C: Yeah.
K: So, any group or club, or membership that is focused on partying and drinking being the activity that bonds everybody, I’m just not into that.
C: Well, and it’s always been bad for both of us, physically.
K: Yeah, because my porphyria and my lupus, I really shouldn’t drink. Didn’t stop me for a lot of years.
C: Yeah.
K: But, I find now that I’m old, I just don’t have the resiliency. It takes me so long to recover from a hangover now.
C: I think that’s the theme. Our social groups now are more determined by being old.
K: True that, true that. And, not into drinking.
C: Yeah.
K: For me, I can’t think of any of my friends that like to drink.
C: Mm-hmm.
K: Hmm, I hadn’t really thought about that. Actually, I don’t know. We just don’t drink.
C: Yeah.
K: Huh, maybe, like, I might get wild and crazy and have a Kahlua and milk if we’re out to dinner, or …
C: Yeah, I mean, there are people I might go out to dinner with, and they might have a beer or glass of wine.
K: Yeah, huh, interesting. There’s another thing I wanted to give a shout out to that I recently learned about, but really haven’t had experience with, that I’m toying with the idea of. Something called Hello Talk, where you can go on there and meet people who are trying to learn a foreign language.
C: Okay.
K: And, they have a meetup groups in Nagoya, based on the people who live in Nagoya and are on the app. You know, these language-learning things, I so want to learn Japanese. I do. I just want to learn it without putting any effort into it kind of thing.
C: Yeah, there’s a critical masses kind of things, like, to geek out a little it’s called the network effect.
K: Yeah.
C: The more people who belong, the more valuable it is. You know, like Texas A&M, I’m an alumnus of that. And, they contacted me to say, “Hey, would you be interested in meeting other people in Japan who are alumni?” And I said yes, and I never heard from them again. So, I guess they …
K: Yeah, so I’m earning my PhD, which is a topic for another episode. But, my chair actually put me in touch with somebody who’s like, 30 miles away. And, we exchanged a couple emails, but we’re like, okay, we get it. We’re in Japan. We’re both earning our PhDs, and we have the same chair. But, we don’t actually have time to travel that 30 miles to meet up. Or, like, we’re busy and we have a full life. So, some people think that they can understand what the points of reference would be for friendships, and I think being in Japan, being from the United States. Or, being in Japan and being Black, those don’t always guarantee that people who have those same points of reference are going to want to be friends with you.
C: I think there’s time compatibility. There’s age compatibility.
K: Yeah.
C: There’s a lot of different ways that you can be incompatible, and that’s okay. I think it only really seems like a big deal sometimes here in Japan because you’re not constantly meeting people.
K: Yeah, and I think my friends really spoil me in that, they come to me.
C: They do, yes.
K: And so, yeah, I’m super, super spoiled, because they’re willing to come to my office so I can …
C: Well, you have a nice space.
K: Yeah, I have two different units, and I think for my friends with children, it’s really nice, because I have a unit that’s just filled with toys.
C: Yep.
K: And so, they can come, and we sit there. And the kids just play with toys, make a mess. There’s like, nothing in the room. It’s just a square box with toys in it. There’s no furniture.
C: Yeah, well, you see all ages, so …
K: Yeah, so, because when I work with little people, it’s fun to let them play. Because play is a big part of their therapy.
C: Mm-hmm, right.
K: And so, I have friends with kids as young as 18 months, and I also, not for any just … That’s just the age range. I’d be willing to have friends who are pregnant and with younger babies.
C: Yeah.
K: But, the youngest child right now currently, of all my friends, is 18 months.
C: But, 18 months is kind of a magic age in Japan, because it’s the age at which they become eligible for day care.
K: Yeah, yeah. And so, I think what they like is that, I can book off a Saturday morning before my first client and say, “Hey, let’s come hang out for two or three hours.” And, it’s really convenient for them because we’re located near a central transportation hub. And then there’s like, a mall, and there’s places to eat, and there’s a park. So, when the weather’s nice, we can hang out at the park and it’s really convenient.
C: Yeah, which has a playground.
K: Yeah, so I’m really spoiled. So, I think for me, it’s having a point of reference, and a willingness to come to me. Because I struggle to travel outside of the Ozone area.
C: Yeah.
K: That makes great friendships.
C: Yeah.
K: So, I feel like a really lazy friend.
C: I think people who are willing to work within your limitations.
K: Yeah, so, you travel to your friends.
C: Yes, so I …
K: You like to get out of Ozone, rather.
C: Yeah, so I have mobility issues, but my issues affect me whether I’m going anywhere or not.
K: Yeah, and I think your cane really helps a lot with that.
C: It does, yeah. So, and a lot of people see the cane and they think, “Whoa, your issues must have gotten worse.” And no, actually, if I don’t have it, they’re much worse than if I do.
K: Yeah, because you have that … Is it plantar fasciitis?
C: I thought that it was. So, my heel was hurting for several months, and I thought that it was.
K: Uh-huh, you broke it.
C: And, when I went … Yeah, I had actually shattered my heel, so that’s still … They tell me that’ll take a couple of years to heal.
K: Yeah. So, that’s us for today. Another gorgeous ramble in the can.
C: Yeah, so nominally, that one was about social groups.
K: Yeah, hope you tune back in.
C: Talk to you later, bye bye.
K: Bye.