How to Develop a Winning Culture in Solar - Alex Hogan-Hall
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the Solarpreneur podcast, where we teach you to take your solar business to the next level. My name is Taylor Armstrong and I went from $50 in my bank account and struggling for groceries to closing 150 deals in a year and cracking the code on why sales reps fail. I teach you to avoid the mistakes I made and bringing the top solar dogs, the industry to let you in on the secrets of generating more leads, falling up like a pro and closing more deals. What is a Solarpreneur you might ask a Solarpreneur is a new breed of solar pro that is willing to do whatever it takes to achieve mastery and you are about to become one.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
What's going on Solarpreneurs. I am super excited for this episode. We have a live episode in the studio. I always love doing it with live guests because I think I get more out of it and more connection with the guests. And I'm super excited because we have our second lady, second girl rep coming on the show. I don't know. I don't know if you guys like get like female girls, lady, whatever. Um, but anyway, it's okay. So we've got Alex Hogan hall on the show here, live in the studio, Alex. Thanks for coming out today and coming on the show. Yeah, of course.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Taylor, thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Here. Yeah, it'll be super fun. And she's, uh, hopefully moving our assume, but you're right now you're commuting from Utah working with the team, right? Yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Yep. Back and forth,
Speaker 2 (01:26):
California. You're getting sick of that. Uh, that plane ride yet. Are you guys like riding in the plane?
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Oh my gosh. I feel like everyone at Delta probably has to know me by now. It's the same flight.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Uh, is it like you see like the same pilots and like flight attendants and stuff? Or does that change your name?
Speaker 3 (01:43):
I see the same, like Utah based crew. I feel like every time.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Nice. Well, that's cool. And, um, so for those that don't know, Alex, she right now is the, uh, you might have to help me a little bit, but your CMO right at,
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Yep. I'm a chief marketing officer and chairman of the board for true power.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Okay. True power in Alex. She has a ton of experience. We're just talking a little bit before the show and she gave me their own whole, you know, kind of run down of everything. She's done all the experiences she's had and, um, she's done a ton awesome stuff. So, um, Alex, do you want to give us kind of like the rundown for those who don't know you kind of how you got into the industry, how you got into door to door and, um, I guess how you got into the position that you're at now too. Yeah,
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Sure. Cool. So, um, so I got started in the industry back in 2015. I had just finished up college with a degree in Marine biology and I was just loved the environment of super, you know, pro hippie fixing, fixing climate change. So couldn't find a job in Marine bio. So I applied to this position to knock doors and sell solar. So I was like, look, I can do this for a petition signing or something. It's going to be easy to get paid. Um, so I tried it out. I was one of the first, uh, direct training classes over at Trinity solar out in New Jersey. Um, back in, I think of 2015. And at the time we really didn't have much training in place support systems. It was still very new to the business. Um, so I was one of the first female sales reps. They brought on board.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
I had to like make my own polos with the logo on it and stuff, um, at the time. So yeah, just start now and I, uh, didn't have any sales background or anything didn't think I'd ever get into sales, but I, you know, did pretty well. I am a super hard worker, so I just went straight into, um, you know, knocking every day, making sure I was working the hours and I did pretty well. I was doing about five or six a month and was able to pay off all of my student loans within the first year I was able to, uh, get my first, uh, apartment with some friends. I was able to get my first car. So pretty much everything I wanted at 22 and I was getting all that stuff covered. Yeah. And so I enjoyed what I was doing. Um, but I was starting to think about getting back into Marine biology.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
This was about nine months to a year later and the director of sales and I kind of sat down before I was looking to leave and they offered me a role to come in and kind of just use a little bit of experience I had out in the field understanding kind of what the field was going through to start building out their support systems. So that's covering anything with onboarding. What does our recruiting process look like? What do our competitions look like? What's our training, our marketing materials, kind of you name it. And that was kind of the stuff that I got into and the way that I did it was mostly like, you know, figuring out what problems existed in the org that I could come in and solve. And, uh, and just kind of figuring out where my hard work could get put in a place. And when you don't really have a skillset built out for something like that, a lot of what you're going to be able to do, that's unique is provide value through your hard work. So I worked my butt off or to really late hours, um, kind of whatever I needed to do to start getting that off the ground. And within, I'd say two years, I was managing a team and then took a director position at Trinity over, uh, all of sales admin, and then also recruiting.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Let's go, was there a lot of like, was there a lot of girls at the time or you really, really like the only one coming into the office?
Speaker 3 (05:05):
So we, our office staff is a little bit heavier on the female side, lots in our different support departments. Um, but I was our first and only female director, youngest director. So yeah, not, not as, quite as much at the leadership level on the sales side, for sure. Okay. Yeah. And so that's kinda where I grew into my director level self, I guess. And then, um, I transitioned into working with legacy, uh, built out the setter closer model over there. Again, I'm very heavy on like building out the systems, kind of the backend stuff, making everything work. Um, and then, uh, after working at legacy for awhile, transitioned over into vivant solar and took on a role managing the sales marketing department there under Jason Del stra. And, uh, that was probably my most fun part of the career before branched out into consulting. I loved, you know, we had this big $5 million budget.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
I had a huge team. We were very heavy on the culture and that's kind of where I realized how unique and valuable it was to be excellent at building out culture. So, um, when, you know, kind of doubled down on that as the way that I could provide, you know, unique value in the industry. And so when I left Viven and got into consulting with door to door experts, that was kinda my thing. So I worked really heavily on both new hire experience, repor tension, increasing your per rep average for your team, just kind of that type of stuff that kept people around, um, long-term and could make companies unique. Um, culture is really interesting with that where, you know, I'm going back to school now and something we're learning about is how does a business provide a competitive advantage or sustain their competitive advantage.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
And if you think about it in door to door, our audience for marketing, isn't so much like, uh, the solar customer, as much as it is this as it is the sales rep. So that's kinda my biggest audience is how can I provide the best possible experience for my sales reps? And so a sustained competitive advantage also, you know, usually comes from something that's really socially complex. And so if you can build a really unique and interesting culture that keeps people around, it's something that's very hard for other companies to imitate. So that's going to be kind of the way that you can, uh, set your company apart from the rest.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
No doubt. And yeah, I saw Alex first speak actually back at door-to-door con was that last year and last year. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, got a ton of like nuggets from just her talking to door to door con. Um, and you talked to a lot of things you just mentioned, like the culture of the competitions, um, how to increase the per rep average. I remember, um, need to go back and review my notes, but it was super good, super valuable stuff you talked about. Um, and yeah, in my opinion, I think that's why we need more like girl reps in door to door is because I don't know, you've probably seen this by now, but pretty much every successful, you know, door to door rep, at least the guys we all got add, we're all super disorganized. We're all, you know, take an Adderall, all this stuff.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
That's like the, you know, door to door, culture and everything though. Um, in every like most, every girl I see come in and they, you know, they're on top of it. They want organize things. They just get people in line and yeah. Then matter of fact, that's how it is. Our company ran out. I told you just off, um, before we started the interview here, we got someone that used to be at Trinity solar to your name's Jeanette. And, uh, yeah, she helped us like just dial in like being so much better than, than what we were doing before though. Yeah. Um, for those that are looking for, you know, more organization, I would consider looking at, you know, bringing in some more girls in your organization because yeah. I think that's kind of the super powers that a lot of, probably not all girls, but I would say in general, um, they're definitely more organized. Is that fair to say Alex?
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Yeah, I would say so. I mean, that's definitely been like a blessing for me at first I was like kind of done being the only girl in my org. It was tougher for me to find mentorship, you know, connect with the male leaders that I was with. It was just, you know, there's just that barrier there. Um, so it was for us to build that relationship. So for awhile it was kind of sad, but then after I realized, you know, just like you mentioned, Taylor, like so much of my natural skill set or the things that I knew I could double down on to become unique. Like a lot of that was very different than the skill set that my male peers brought to the table. A lot of them were growing up and having success, like getting into director roles through being really great at sales. And so, um, I was fortunate enough to have kind of that mix of doing well enough with sales to really understand what reps are going through. So then when I could come in and build out those systems and provide that structure, it w it was a very specific to them and help that out a lot.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah. That's awesome. So how long were you like in the sales before you got into more like the like management's type stuff organization?
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Yeah, so I, I knocked for about a year, um, and then took a lot of referrals after that, that lasted for awhile. And then once I moved out of New Jersey into Utah referral game, kind of dried up there, um, wasn't working out there quite as much, but yeah, I still, you know, to this day, I'll go out and talk with our sales reps here and there and make sure I'm spending as much time as in the field as I can. I think it's super important to know firsthand what they're going through in order to make sure that, you know, everything we're building is the best it possibly can be to support them and, um, keep them here longterm, as everybody wants to find a home in their career. I think oftentimes we think in door to door, how, like, you know, reps don't stay that long. It's kind of fleeting. It's okay if you lose a lot of people, but I think it's, um, it's a challenge, but to think about it the opposite way where, you know, if I can figure out if I can crack the code on how people can stay longterm, I'm actually gonna have an org that connects at a way deeper level has success at a way deeper level. So that's what I'm
Speaker 2 (10:32):
A hundred percent. Yeah. I respect that a ton like leaders that still want to go out and knock with their teams as all these top companies. I see all the leaders. A matter of fact, I just saw a post about a, I think it was Sunrun CEO or something shows up. I don't know if he saw that, but she shows up to a meeting and then they thought they're going to have a meet and greet after. And she's like, no, we're going to the doors who might knock them with like, wow, she's awesome. So like, I think people really expect respect that. And I've talked with reps from other organizations that don't do that, where their leaders are just coming in and doing trainings and then heading out and they're talking about all these things. I go and knock harder, go close more doors and things like that. But I think it's hard to, um, I don't know, maybe take that information sometimes if the reps don't see, oh, they're willing to do it themselves. And, um, they're going to come out and like, show me how it's done even though, I mean, I mean, I'm sure you're not to the level you were before when you're knocking consistently every day. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
This is just here and there, but I mean, you're so right. Like even, you know, in the times where I've been even recruiting at the manager level, a DM will sometimes say, okay, like I am down to come over and I'll do this, that, and the other thing, but I don't really want to knock anymore. And I just think it's so silly to think that you can be as effective and be the best person for your people if you don't really know what they're going through and you're not willing to do that with them. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
That's for sure. Yeah. So when you, um, like kind of transitioned more into the management stuff, more into building out the systems, things like that, was that, were they asking you to do that? Or were you kind of like, I dunno, is that, was that you more wanting to get into that type of role? Or how did that transition go?
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Yeah, I, I didn't really know what to expect when I first took the role. I was kind of, even in the mentality of, you know, I'll, I'll come on, I'll do this and I'll keep looking for a job that I want in the meantime. Um, but coming in, I, I didn't realize how valuable this question was at the time I was like 23, but I remember going, um, department to department the first couple of weeks of my job, because my boss was traveling to all the offices. So I'm just sitting around corporate. I'm like, okay, what am I going to do? And I went to all the departments and I said, Hey, I'm Alex, I'm working with the direct sales team. I just wanted to know, like, how do you interact with them? What problems do you run into? Like, how can I make things easier for you guys?
Speaker 3 (12:42):
And kind of like build that, um, kind of system up and everybody had their own opinions and things. And so not only did it build a ton of relationship equity for me, like people kind of talked about playing politics and corporate, I don't think it has to be politics, but you do need to build relationships. So I built up a ton of that equity by, um, going out, doing things for other departments, kind of seeing how I could kind of grease the wheel there between their relationship with sales. And, uh, and because of that, I noticed a ton of holes that needed to be filled, created systems and kind of, um, different problem solving solutions that I could put into place there. And then I managed it because I put it into place. So as I grew and built more systems under me and things that I was managing, I was able to convince my boss to let me bring on additional people. And that's how I got into management was purely just working my butt off and then figuring out, okay, what problems exist that no, one's either thinking about solving or wants to solve and figure out the solution to that, and then kind of build out my influence from there.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Uh that's awesome. So it sounds like you're more like super proactive, like, Hey, what problems can I help with? What things can be improved? It wasn't like them doing yoga, doing this, go do this, like went out there and kind of recognize that yourself and like suggest to them, things like that.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
Totally. And I think that like, it applies, I think, no matter what position you're in, like anyone that's trying to get into leadership, if you can be proactive about figuring out, you know, what needs to get done, that's not getting done. What are the holes that you can fill with different solutions? Um, that is the way to kind of stand out and be unique. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Well that's, yeah, that's a good point. Good point. And so I'm with team, I know this is what you're doing at a door to door experts for awhile while was helping people kind of help build out these systems and more on the organizational thing, the rep retention. Right. Um, what was like some big mistakes that you would see as you went into a company? I'm sure you've dealt with some pretty disorganized companies and maybe some that were a mess and everything. Do you have any, uh, I don't know, cool stories of companies that were a disaster and you helped them turn things around or anything like that,
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Dude, that's such a good question. Um, yeah, I, I'm just thinking through all these examples, I would say one of the biggest things I noticed was if you're a smaller business or you're like a manager looking to do this for your team, you know, you're not doing it huge scale of in status yet, or anything like that. A lot of people, you don't even realize you're doing it, but you're like trying to imitate a big culture. You're trying to imitate these big players that you admire. So it's not coming from a place of like genuine, authentic, like you're trying to do what's in your reps, best interest. You're like building out systems or creating competitions or doing all these things because you think you need to, and because you think that's, what's going to work. And so it's like, it's this weird, like disconnect, like emotionally in between like you and the sales rep.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
So instead a big part of it was getting in touch with that. Company's like identity, like what are the things that they really care about? Who are the people that they're trying to bring on board? Like who really aligns with their core values and then figuring out how do I build out systems, build out training, uh, build it into my recruiting process, whatever a way that I'm providing what is best for the best interests of the sales rep. And that will also align with your best interest as a business or a, you know, manager simply because you're bringing on the right people. So, you know, you're bringing on the right person, if your best interests and theirs align perfectly because you're bringing somebody into your culture that shares your values.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Okay. So it sounds like step one is kind of recognizing what are the core values before anything and then going out and finding people that fit into that. And that's more, would you say that's what we, what you were helping companies with as you started working with them?
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Yeah, I would say so because a mistake I made in the beginning was I would, you know, I just, I, I feel like I've got these systems now that could be successful anywhere. So we'd start on the system front and we'd put the stuff into place. And, um, their retention didn't go up. Like the metrics kind of, we were trying to measure, we're not really changing. And so if I looked at it, it was like this, yeah. It was just this like false imitation of what we really needed to be providing. So we started a step back and said like, okay, who are the people that we're truly trying to bring on board? Right. Like, and one thing I, um, I was telling you about this earlier, but a little Simon Senate training I saw that I think is super valuable is, uh, he, he was interviewing a leader in Navy seals and he was talking about, um, how they choose who they want to bring into their org.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
And he kind of drew this little graph. So one of the axis was, uh, high performance, so low to high performance. And then the other axis was, uh, culture, or, you know, how good of a human is this person kind of thing. So every company wants someone that falls under that one corner where it's high performance, you know, high, high value to the culture. Nobody wants someone that's in the low and low corner, but then, um, oftentimes people will choose the high performer. That's a bad fit for your culture over the, a low performer. That is a great fit for your culture. And I think that's a huge thing we do here in door to door because we care so much about that production, but this guy kind of defined that person as a toxic team member. So it's someone that comes on board. Um, they might be breaking your rules.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
They might be kind of going against your core values. And then as a manager or a leader, you're looking at this person and you're like, dang, I really want the production. So you keep them on board. You make concessions with yourself, you kind of give up some of that identity that you care so much about with your, with your team and what you guys stand for. And then you think that, that person's either, you know, providing a neutral or a benefit to the team where oftentimes if you put a top performer, that's a bad fit for the culture in place, and you prioritize them over your good guys on the team that are maybe mediocre, you know, you work with that person versus developing them. Then you're actually going to detract from the overall kind of culture and performance of everyone.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
That's interesting. So how do you know cause like, um, um, I'm sure you've seen, sometimes it's tough to recognize you do one, two interviews and you don't necessarily know how this person's going to work out with the team. So how do you, like, what do you do? Say you bring on someone they're crushing it, but yeah. They're not fitting into their culture. I don't know. Maybe they're like doing shady stuff or, and I'm sure you've seen all types of things going on that, like, what do you do with these reps? Do you like, Hey, strike one, strike two year out or do you like sit down and talk with them or do you like, I don't know if you see they're not a good fit in your culture, do you try to like mold them first? Or what do you do in these cases?
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Yeah, I would, I would say always like, step one, you should be a high enough level person too. If you have a high performer, that's not a good fit for your culture, you should be able to control that situation enough to try to mold them into what you need. Okay. So oftentimes, you know, someone's, um, uh, being, you know, really aggressive or territorial or just kind of this personality that doesn't fit with the group. If you first try to level with them and be like, Hey, like I want to provide a space for you to, you know, move into leadership here, make the most money. You can, whatever that person's goals are, I'd kind of aligned with them there and be like, I need you to do me a favor though, because you are such a high level influencer on the team because of your production level and like how well you can go out and perform that if you don't come to meetings and you do all of these things that are like against the basic rules that I'm trying to hold everybody to.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
And those expectations, it sucks for me as a leader because I have a tough time. Like all these people look up to, you have all this influence over them. So I need to try to hold you to those same standards if it's not, you know, just for you coming to the team, cause you don't care that much about going to the trainings every day. Maybe you don't need them as much, but the rest of the team does. And so you would be doing me a massive, massive favor if you could, you know, follow X, Y, and Z. So whatever those basic expectations are, I try to kind of set it that way. And oftentimes if you level with that person and they're like, yeah, um, I'm just doing something nice for the team like that usually connects and will resonate with people. Um, if they are still not going to be a good fit for the group, I have, you know, um, consulted people and we've said, okay, let's put this person kind of out on an island.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
So, you know, don't come to the meetings. We're not gonna put you on the leader board, but you're welcome to come here and sell lights out and kind of do your thing and work with me. But I can't just put you in with the rest of the team because you're kind of a bad influence on them. Um, or worst case scenario too. Like I've also, um, personally lost people that I thought were high, high performer, toxic team member. Um, and I've also had, uh, one of my roofing clients actually in Colorado, they lost their top top person that they were petrified to lose because they finally put some expectations in place like this. And he left and they were petrified that the whole team was going to leave. And now they're like five X the size that they were like this little training room where they had these influences that kept them from holding their expectations. Um, when I was there, like that was tough for them. So now that person's gone, they're able to hold everyone to a higher standard, the team actually gels a lot better. And so they've only gotten better since then.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's like cutting the fat off, but yeah. And then I think it's that scarcity mindset people get, they don't want to let go of the golden goose, the things it's feeding them. So they're afraid to, I don't know, do sometimes what's necessary. Like a lot of times they, they probably know they need to do it right, but they're just like scared to like, I don't want to cut a guy that's closing 10 deals a month, whatever it, 10 20 deals
Speaker 3 (21:37):
For sure. And if that person leaving allows you to help everybody else in the office get one or two more deals a month and that kind of covers your 10 or 20 that you're losing. So I look at it.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Yeah. I like that. I agree for sure. And so another thing I know you've helped a lot of companies with, and you're probably one of your strengths do is just the rep retention. Um, so does that, would you say that's pretty hand-in-hand with what we're talking about? Like retaining reps, just figuring out the culture first, any other ideas you have on that? Because as you know, solar, I mean, at my first company I was with, it's like, you know, trying to pour, uh, uh, like water in a colander, you know, you're trying to fill up a colander and the water is just flowing out of there and you're constantly just filling it up, filling it up every single week. I go, at one point we were recruiting, I don't know, maybe like five or six reps a week. And then we're lucky if one of them like stayed double next week. Cause we're just like bringing in these guys from, you know, restaurant, is it ZipRecruiter, indeed all these things. So yeah. In your opinion, Alex, what's like the biggest, um, I dunno, mistaken retention. I know probably a lot of that stuff we just talked about, but anything else you would say that's helps a lot that you've seen in companies you work with in retention? Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Yeah. So I would say, um, first off is I think a big mistake we make in the industry is, you know, we put a lot of weight on recruiting, but then mentally people start to kind of check out of the recruiting process once that person gets hired. So as soon as that person shows up to bootcamp, you're like, cool, my job is done. This person's here. And that's what we reward people on. We say, oh, he brought in this number of recruits, but what we really care about is that person staying retained. So I'm a metric and solar that I got from a previous company, just with a ton of data, was, um, if a rep can get five sales within their first 60 days, they're 80% more likely to stay with that company six months or longer, which is a huge step for us in our industry.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
Right. So, um, I, you know, knowing that, I mean there's a million things you can think of to put into place. You know, how I answer the question? How can I get more of my sales reps to hit five sales in 60 days? There's a lot you can build into place there. But I think a big thing too, that should be thought of through the recruiting process and kind of, as it bleeds into that onboarding and the first couple of weeks is just kind of the journey that your, your recruit is going to have to go through in order to actually stay retained and like fully integrate this new job into their life. So for example, let's say you've got, um, someone that's working like a nine to five job. They're a young parent, young mom or dad, and they've got like a two or three-year-old at home that they put to bed at like 7, 7 30 every night.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
And that's like their little family time. It totally fits into their current routine. And now you're trying to recruit this person from that lifestyle into door to door. Well, if you're asking that person, you know, you, if you're feeling resistance during the recruiting process, you might immediately go to, let me throw more money at this person. And let me give them a manager title, like whatever, some of these perks that we can give versus thinking through that hesitation is more so based on the changes to their lifestyle, that they haven't thought through a solution to yet. So like this person, this example may come into your org and if they plan to like, they've always needed to be home at seven 30 for bedtime, and now you're telling them they need to knock until eight or later, every single night, that's going to be a disconnect for you guys.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
So you could nip that stuff in the bud, even during the recruiting process, by getting to know that person at a deeper level, know what their life is, like, know what they care about. And then, um, you know, that could be setting up a schedule where a couple of nights a week you want them out late and a couple of nights a week, you're cool with them going home because they get their doors in or they start earlier, like whatever it's gotta be. But if you can kind of figure those things out early on and mold some of the process with them, it breaks that barrier down between where they are and them being, you know, fully self-sustaining in this role, making money and working with the longterm. So I think if you can think through solving that, that is going to change the way you recruit your processes, your onboarding, your incentives, like everything else kind of falls in line. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Yeah. Okay. I love that. Yeah. That's a good point now. And I'm doing a little bit with that right now. I mean, the company I'm with now, it's like we have all these young guys that just came like young hustlers coming from, uh, Vivian alarms and stuff like that. They're all lined up for the summer. And then, um, yeah, I told you before we started recording here that I was running a team of just like 10, 15 reps. Most of us were like married guys, just, uh, I don't know, kind of doing our thing had kids, stuff like that, but now our teams, like we ha we got 30 guys that they're not married, they're off like, uh, just doing like the single guy stuff. And we're trying to kind of like, um, you know, fit into that culture and everything. And then, uh, you know, you get like girls coming on the teams too. So like there's all these different, like people that can come into the organization and from all types of scenarios, different schedules that they're used to. So, um, I dunno, do you have any like tips on say you got something like that where it's a bunch of young people and you've got some married guys, then you got some girls. I don't know. Is that how your team is right now currently or, yeah,
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Yeah. We've got a really good mix over at Tru. We've got, um, I'd say probably 30% of our like active reps are women, which is cool. Um, yeah, we, we have a younger Salesforce, but we've got plenty of married people with young kids and everything. Um, I mean, I think a big, a big piece of that is like, we've got all these little subcultures within our teams that I've noticed people that have similar schedules. They're kind of like breaking off and doing some of their own thing. Um, you could even incentivize the groups that start to naturally form like that to like, do little head-to-head matches. Like you can do some office level incentives with them on that type of stuff. Okay. Um, and then, I mean, just touching on bringing people into solar from summer programs, I've got like a whole thing that I've been, uh, brewing up with a couple with, you know, Brandon and Parker, a couple of old experts, but, um, we've been talking about a lot how, how different it is going from a summer program over into solar.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
And I think for anyone like recruiting from summer programs right now, this is a hurdle that you guys might not be thinking of people in pest control or alarms or something they're coming from this very regimented schedule. They know what they're doing. Like every hour of the day for the summer, they've got really robust training systems because they're trying to, you know, in a summer program, you need to get people, videos, get that stuff figured out, and then they need to be on the doors producing as soon as the summer starts. So they've got this whole system in place. And oftentimes, you know, a lot of us got into solar maybe because you were doing other sales and you loved the freedom and things that come with the schedule we can create. And solar, well, if you're a manager that values freedom with your time and you're kind of unstructured and you don't care if people are showing up to the meetings twice a week and stuff like that, and you recruit a group of alarm guys, like what are the chances that, that person's going to be successful in this unstructured culture where it's like, no, man, you can do whatever you want.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Like kind of thing. You know? So, um, so oftentimes we see that as a perk that we got into this industry for, if you're bringing on summer teams, I would say, match what they are familiar with until they know what they're doing. And then you can let off the gas a little bit, like put something into place that feels remotely similar to what they've been going through with their training and their schedule and their structure. And it may not match what you're asking the rest of the team to do, but it's going to help those people come on board and get past the learning curve.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Okay. That's interesting. So almost like having them do, even though we say you're only meeting twice a week or something, so you bring in a group of summer guys. So you're saying maybe like meet with them every day and just have them do their same schedule for a while until they start seeing success. Things like that.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
Totally. Because for us, we might be like, oh yeah, it's cool. We only do meetings twice a week. Like this like less structured lifestyle is what we enjoy. But for someone coming from a really regimented routine and door to door that could give them anxiety and it could keep them from like their routines on how they've learned and their work ethic and their numbers are all based on them being in a regular regimented schedule. So if you mess that up, they may not have the personal, like wherewithal to just do that themselves because they know that's what they need. Like they might not even know that. So I would say, put those guys in, yeah, like a quick 30 minute meeting every day to kind of touch base for the first couple of weeks. And once you guys, once you see them kind of get into their own like groove with solar, you can always let up and pull them into the, the, um, structure that you're holding with the rest of the group. But I think that would help with retention, like big time for summer people.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Yeah. No, for sure. I agree with that. Cause you actually, that's, I'm totally, I'm working with Jason newbie and that's basically what we're doing right now because he comes from alarms, a bunch of the guys that he has on the team are from vivid alarms. So right now, yeah, he has a meeting every day. Like it used to be 10:00 AM you moved it to 12, but it's like every single day we're having a meeting, we're getting out there and yeah. I mean, the guys are producing, so it's, whatever's doing work and working and they were producing a lot more than our team that was working twice. There was a meeting twice a week. I'm like, okay, well something must be working.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
Oh yeah. We, uh, we just finished up our first competition as a company. And it was like a one V one and our top manager that won the whole thing came from pest control. Yeah. He's got his schedule down. He works harder than everyone else because he knows like the another trap we get into with solar is the commissions are so high right now that like, it's so tough to push people, to actually make them produce what numbers you want to see on the board. If they've got any type of limiting mindset with money or they don't need that much. And they don't think about that type of stuff. So we, um, part of our practice when we're bringing people on board is we'll even frame it during the interview process is like kind of this, this problem. We want this person to help us solve, which is like, look, you can make very, very good money coming in and solar to the point where sometimes it can be tough to make people hit the numbers that we expect out of them every month, because you might sell one or two deals and like cover all your bills for the month.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
So you want to relax, but how does a person that does two sales a month affect the rest of their team that wants to do way more than that could be stretching their personal limits, way higher than we've seen people in our industry do 30 plus a month, you know, like that happens all the time. So if you hire a bunch of people and you don't kind of frame it that way first, um, you can get people kind of caught in this like, oh yeah, I'm good doing one or two sales and you've got kind of this mediocre performance. So yeah,
Speaker 2 (31:42):
No, that's true. I mean, that's, the act is do two deals and solar. I mean, especially in California, that's still like decent money.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Yeah. You might be doing better than anyone in your family has ever done. And you're only selling two accounts. So like if you're pulling someone in, that's not from our industry and they're doing two accounts a month, they think they're winning. You think that they're, uh, you know, time suck on the rest of your team. So you got to kind of figure out how to like reconcile that early on to make sure that person knows what you expect out of them. And can, you know, if they've got some limiting mindset there, you're working with them on that, that's kind of another step to helping people stay longer term is kind of getting them in the frame of mind. Like, no, I, I may be doing way better than the rest of my family, but doing two deals a month. Like I could, now that I know this skill, I can be doing 6, 10, 15, whatever. So, um, getting people kind of in that number mindset versus the money, one is big too. Yeah,
Speaker 2 (32:33):
I would agree. And yeah, I think it's good to bring to that point to bring people from the other industries. Because like, for me, I, I saw it on myself. I was like getting lazier and lazier for awhile just because we're guys that were just pretty much in pure soul where we weren't bringing any whales that had been in like Pesan show alarms. And so we're good with our three, four hours knocking a day and, you know, just closing her maybe two or three deals a week tops and yeah, it was good money and everything. But then once I recently, once we have did this, like merger as Tony about with Jason newbie's team, got to these alarm guys, a lot of them were working on alarm schedule, like 6, 7, 8 hours of knocking. And then, and then they're closing 30 plus deals a week. A few of them I'm like, whoa, like this is possible.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
And solar guys can do this much. So I think it's a, I think it's a good idea to be bringing in people that are fresh that don't know that, that don't kind of like have that lazy solar mindset. Cause in my opinion, like, um, I've seen guys that are coming from different industries or guys there may be new. Um, a lot of times they're having more success than recruiting from like other solar companies, because a lot of these other like no offense to a lot of these companies, but they have a lot of lazy reps that are used to closing, you know, one or one or two deals maybe tops a week. So, uh, yeah, I think I liked that a lot.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
That was kind of like, you know, I was fortunate enough to work at some of the bigger companies and pull some lessons from there. So whether I'm working with a smaller company and mid whatever, like a big, a big thing has been the pattern with the top performing companies is they expect high performance all the way through their leadership stack. A lot of times you'll, you know, you could recruit someone into a smaller dealer, um, and they've done well in the past. You want to put them at this really high level. You're either bringing them in as like a DM, maybe a regional, maybe a director. And they're like, cool. I want to come in. And this is what I'm going to do. But by the way, I'm not going to knock doors. And if they go that route, like again, I saw some of the craziest performance of my life in solar, just being at Viven and those guys all the way up through the director level, like they could be managing hundreds of reps under them and they're still expecting to hit some of the highest levels of production in the industry and leading from the front.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
They're like a lot of times we will get into management and you start to get sucked into the reporting and the hiring and firing and territory management and all that other stuff. And you, and you forget how high priority you should be, um, putting, actually knocking and showing up for your team, but by far and away say the biggest pattern is like you see managers, um, able to bring teams on and have them perform at a much higher level of they are leading the charge.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Yeah, I agree for sure. And say, I speak in a culture. Um, I know that was, you probably, uh, learned a ton as you were, um, helping them like Vivid Solar things. And I know that's part of, we talked about a door to door con too. Um, but you also mentioned like, I think you were saying smaller companies shouldn't necessarily try to do all the things that the big dogs are doing, like the vivid soldiers of the, of the world and that and all that. So what do you see? I don't know, say you're a small company. How should the culture be different? Like in a big company, how much of what they're seeing Vivint solar and all these companies that are having a ton of success? What th what should they try and take from that? And I don't know, maybe what are some things that didn't work that you saw that companies were trying to take from these big cultures that were super successful?
Speaker 3 (35:56):
Oh my gosh. That's such a good question. Um, I think a big one was the way that you're spending your money to build your culture. So I think the two metrics that matter in culture are increasing your repor tension. How long are people staying? How well are they doing? And then the per rep average. So if my reps are producing two sales a month on average, can I get that to a three or four or higher? Okay. And, uh, and so I see companies, you know, especially sometimes I do my like competition training and people get all jacked up about getting into doing a competition and, um, the way you could spend $10,000 on a competition and have it be the best thing that's ever happened to your business, or you could do it and it could be a total flop. You might not get any extra sales.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Yeah. So I think it's, um, figuring out how to spend your money, not just to like check off all the boxes of like, I've got the fancy things, I've got a competition where someone can like win a razor and all that kind of stuff like this high level stuff. Um, you can spend a lot less money, but gain some of the lessons from that, like, you know, motivating reps through a competition, for example, um, the way Vivian is going to handle a competition with, um, they're, you know, really flashy launch videos, really big flashy prizes, all of that stuff, you know, podcasts and video casts on like all of the people that won last year, bringing them on trash, talking like this whole thing. Um, there's a bootstrap version of that that I think can happen, um, for companies at a lower level, but like a lot of what goes into making an amazing competition can just be you hyping it up ahead of time as a manager, you knowing what the rules are and the prizes, and like letting your reps know that, um, a month in advance, maybe sometimes more letting them kind of prepare, you know, if I've got a four or five week competition coming up, um, I would launch it to my sales reps in enough time where they can move, um, obligations that they might have if someone's got, you know, I'll, I'll roll out my schedule at the beginning of the year.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
Most companies should do that so that their reps can kind of plan out for sure. Yeah. So if I know, like I know the main competitions I want to do, and then maybe I'll have like one or two months where it's a little bit light and offices can do their competitions. If I do that, that allows, uh, your sales reps to not have to sacrifice family time for work time. They can plan their family time around the times and the seasons where you're going to do like high level competitions. So literally just scheduling your competition's a little bit different, like that could double the production you get from one versus spending a crap ton of money on the prizes.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Mm genius. I love that. Yeah. Cause most, yeah, you probably see that a lot, but like guys tomorrow we're doing a competition tournament tomorrow starts tomorrow, get
Speaker 3 (38:35):
Ready. Yeah. And then like reps will go like a week without knowing their numbers in it. And they're like, Hey, what's the score? And you're like, crap. I keep forgetting to do that. And like, finally you do it. And you just like text the numbers into the group chat. Like it's not even on a graphic or anything. So, um, so yeah, like just hyping it ahead of time, setting up the rules, allowing everyone to clear their schedule, um, tracking and hyping up the numbers and what's happening during a competition, like in, as life-time, as you can to give them those updates. All of that generates that kind of competitive nature that you're looking to get out of your sales reps, that in and of itself is going to help them kind of break past their previous limits and perform way better during competitions. Um, but that was one thing I noticed at, at Vivian.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
I think this is a cool principle across the board. We did not make significantly more money because of the competitions we put into place, pretty big budgets for it. We would see a really big volume pop. Um, and then you'd see kind of this dip afterwards as everyone kind of relaxes. And you want to make sure that rise always kind of supersedes the dip that comes after, but even if it does, like the one thing we saw was no matter what happened at the end of the competition, the per rep average is kind of what went up. So we would see sales reps that previously had maybe had their best week of being four or five sales. Now they're doing 10 plus sales in a week and they didn't even realize that was possible for themselves. So reps are all setting this new personal record with themselves or a new personal record that they now have, you know, manager, the office just did 30 that month. Now they know it's possible. So you're kind of raising the limit in competitions to show everyone what they're capable of, which hopefully then you can kind of sustain that afterwards. And that's like, I think that's the target with competition. So how can I, what, what practices, or what way can I structure this competition in a way that's going to allow my sales reps to raise the personal limit they have on the number of sales they think they can do.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Yeah. I love that. That's a massive, um, yeah, but no, it's just reminds me of, uh, my first company I was with, um, it seemed like every single competition we had, I had like some trips scheduled with my family or whatever. They would like schedule months in advance and they rolled it out like the next week or whatever. I'm like, all right, well, I'm not going to try that hard because I already know I have this like, scheduled
Speaker 3 (40:49):
Exactly. That's so if you could like prevent that stuff and it changes everything.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
I don't know. So that's not, I think that's a huge takeaway. Um, so sweet. And so Alex, um, I know we don't have all day here, but the last thing I kind of wanted to ask, pick your brain about is just with recruiting. Um, you guys said you're, uh, you have a team of 110 reps or so right now at true power. Yep. Okay. And so you did a merger. How many reps did you have, like when you first started with that merger, has it stayed the same or have you built the team a lot since you like started the company or merged?
Speaker 3 (41:23):
Yeah, I mean, and I know you're kind of going through this too, uh, merging multiple cultures and systems and everything together, um, has probably been one of the most fun challenges I've had in the industry so far. Um, we're fortunate enough to have a lot of people putting their egos aside to combine leadership. You know, we've got an awesome team. Um, we started out, uh, probably trying to think how many sales reps we had. We probably had a hundred total, but active, I'd say it was probably close to like 60 or 70, um, reps that we had. And we've had some big new hire classes, but, you know, even coming from this is the area of door to drive, decided to become an expert in, um, still retention is tough. So we've kind of gone back and forth. You know, we've had big classes, we've lost some people we've changed our practices a lot. So, um, yeah, we've been able to, we've been able to grow quite a bit, but by far and away, the biggest thing that's made a difference, I think is establishing some better systems to get like our mid-level reps, um, understanding, expectations, getting support to become better and like figure out how they can kind of level up. We rolled out a mentor program, which I think is big. Um, so that is essentially, it's something Brandon I've used in the past with companies
Speaker 2 (42:39):
Legacy does too, right?
Speaker 3 (42:41):
Yes. Yeah. Similar. So essentially what we wanted to do was along with that statistic of let's get people to five or more sales within 60 days. Um, if you are just alone manager or you're a small company, you might have only one person that can get all of your new hires past that learning curve. Like it's just that one manager. Yeah. So, um, if that's what you're doing, you're kind of limited to only being able to bring on enough people where that person can actually truly give the amount of attention that they need to, to all of their new hires at one time to get them past the curve. So, um, rolling out something like the mentor program, essentially the mentor role as this new, uh, position in leadership where you're not quite a manager yet, but it's kind of the first step towards it.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
So, um, you can, as long as you're, you know, we've got some performance requirements, but as long as you're a good, uh, kind of conduit of our culture, you understand our processes well enough. Um, this person is now going to be mentor to a new hire coming in as a mentee. And their goal is to get that mentee to five sales in 60 days. Okay. Um, so we, we do like an incentive. If anyone gets to seven sales, we'll do a rookie trip for them. So they want to get their mentees to seven sales. And then we also incentivize our mentors for that. So, um, if we have mentees hitting that, they get to go on this trip as mentors get more and more of their reps through to those higher levels, we've kind of gameified it. So we've got like, you know, scoreboards and calls with just our mentors where we can kind of work a hundred percent on focusing on that new rep experience. So that's been like, you know, we, we knew that was, uh, needed to be a focus coming in. We had some big classes, we lost a bunch of people. So now we've really like doubled down on that for the fall. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
That's awesome. And yeah, you mentioned you guys do like a bootcamp, right? So you're bringing in like a big, like, I guess a new class of people, almost like a university class or something. Right. I'd get them all trained a little bit. And how are you, uh, for you guys, what's your like, system on recruiting? How you guys recruiting now in your
Speaker 3 (44:35):
Good question? So, um, it's kind of twofold. Uh, Brandon Hall, my husband is our CEO and he's made his career around becoming an expert in recruiting. So, um, he's both working on personal recruiting culture within the business, but a big thing too, is how can you, how can you succeed at bringing in web applicants and, um, help them have the same experience you would if they were personal recruits? So we all know if we bring in a personal recruit, that person is way more likely to stay than a web applicant. A lot of that's just because of the ties they have in the business, the community, they feel like they have, like, they feel like they know someone that can support them, whether the person that recruited them as good at selling or not, it's just a person they can talk to if they need it.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
Right. Um, so just having some of those elements, so that's kind of why that's some of the reason we put the mentor program into place was like, you can bring on a ton of web applicants. Anyone can figure out how to crack the code on indeed and get enough resumes coming through. It's really a numbers game there. Um, but you know, there's plenty of tactics we do in our interviews to make sure people have their mindset shaped into. Um, I, I know what to expect. This is a very legitimate company. I don't want to let them down. A lot of times we'll go into, uh, people in our industry will go into interviews and you sound like you are recruiting for an MLM. It's just like, you're going to do so great, bro. Like, you're going to kill it. Like I know you're going to make over six figures this year.
Speaker 3 (45:50):
Like I can't wait to be there for it, blah, blah, blah. So you do that. And then someone's coming on board, like dang, like that guy would have hired probably anyone with a pulse. So let's see how this first day goes. So if you have someone with that mentality coming in versus holy crap, I'm so lucky to have this opportunity. I do not want to let this company down, like I'm going to come in here and kill it. Just that mentality going into bootcamp is totally different. So we definitely shape our interviews around people having that mentality, kind of coming out of it and into our bootcamp. And then we just make sure that we are providing the experience that they would get as if they were a personal recruit. So that's where they get their mentor. They meet that person before they come on board.
Speaker 3 (46:28):
Um, so, you know, first time they walk into a corelation room, they already know, at least that one person is going to come over and chat with them and sit with them and stuff. So it's just all those little things to help someone feel like they're, um, integrating into your team's culture quicker. If you have someone that's kind of out on an island because you don't have the time to help them as a manager, no one else can come in and shadow them. Like I think that, you know, that can be a big, uh, the first week is so important for new hires. If you are giving them like polos that are two sizes too big and having a stain on it, cause you take it from a rep that left and like, you don't have a badge prepared for them. And then you're like, Hey Frank, can you, uh, can you have this new guy shadow you? And he's like, no, dude, sorry. Like I was going to go do this, this and this. Isn't going to do it. And you're like, crap. Uh, well what about you? Can you shadow this guy? And everyone's like, no, man, sorry, I can't do it. Like now you're stuck with this reps that like, dude, like, how am I going to get trained here? So, uh, so it's just having those little things organized ahead of time. Can make such a big difference for your new hires.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
It's funny. That's what happens
Speaker 3 (47:26):
All the time. Like, you know, when you, I mean, I, if you've ever had like a new hire come into your bootcamp, like wearing like a three-piece suit or anything, but I'd totally have that. And you're like, dude, that's my bad that I did not. I should have told you that you don't wear that to your first day, but it's moments like that where someone walks in and they're like, I'm in the wrong place. I don't know what I'm doing here. And it's like that mind, like that little mental story, they start to tell themselves if you can keep that from happening, keep them on the positive. Even with those little, little things, it makes such a big difference.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
Uh, no. Yeah. There's, it's funny. I've been with previous companies do where they bring in these indeed recruits and they're like, they had an interview and everything and they show up to the meet and they're like, oh wait, this is door knocking. We have to knock doors. That's like a, yeah, they don't take that in the interview. I go, no, I guess I'll come Che.
Speaker 3 (48:11):
Yeah. And it's such an art to talking about door knocking in interviews. Um, because you know, some companies like the mentality of, they'll just be like, yo, this is door to door. Are you cool with that? And then they'll scare away anyone that isn't okay with it. And then anyone that is like, perfect. I've weeded out the week kind of thing. Yeah. I think that mentality, you're losing a ton of people that could be open to it. Just because door to door kind of carries a negative connotation if you don't understand our industry. Um, but if you are talking through parts of the job where like, you know, we're super picky with who we bring on board and we care a lot about making sure this person's aligned with our culture and our business and what we're trying to accomplish here. And you know, you, and most of the rest of the team, you guys are going to spend a lot of your time outdoors.
Speaker 3 (48:54):
Uh, you're going to be out in neighborhoods because we need to make sure people are qualified for solar. So that means you need to see what their roof looks like, see what their house looks like, make sure they've got the right meter. There's all of these in-person elements to it. So you're going to be outside dealing with homeowners, kinda like that on a daily basis. So, you know, that being said, um, do you have any problems with like extreme weather or whatever you good being outside in the rain? And then P you basically just said, it's door to door. You're gonna be out in neighborhoods. You're talking to homeowners, you're in person, blah, blah, blah. You're qualifying them. Right. But you didn't say the phrase door to door to start the pitch. So then people are like, no, no, I'm totally cool with that. Like, oh, I love the heat.
Speaker 3 (49:30):
I love the cold. Like, whatever. They'll say these things to convince you, like, no, no, please hire me. Like, I'm still the, I wanna, I want to work with you. So they're convincing you to hire them in that instance. And then later on, like, as you, you can keep talking, you know, day in the life and get into how it store to door and talk about your culture. Now it's a little bit less of a blow, right? Like if you just come out and be like, Hey, this is a door to door position. Are you cool with that? You're going to weed out. A lot of people that would have said no in that instance, but could have said yes, if you framed it a little bit differently,
Speaker 2 (49:58):
It's almost like in California, how you can't really start at the door saying, I'm saying I'm selling solar doors that had like sneak your way around at first, get them to buy into that. They want to save money on energy and all that. And then the, how we do that as solar. Exactly. Similar thing. Well, that's awesome, Alex. No, some great ideas you've given us today. And for our, for our listeners kind of last question I wanted to ask you before we wrap up here, um, all, a lot of small companies, they don't have this role of someone like you. It's like super great at organizing. That's helping all put all these systems together and things like that. We didn't get one until pretty recently, actually in our company it's helped a ton. So how do you suggest people that's traditional door to door? Just like, I don't know, like manager, the sales reps a lot of times and then company owner. So what would you suggest to people that are, maybe they're struggling with all this management stuff and setting up the systems and they're hearing all these things right now and I go, dang, how do they bring someone on to implement all this, all these ideas Alex has given us all this, a fire she's spent and how do we implement these things? So what would you say to those companies that's want to like have help with getting someone that's more organized like that?
Speaker 3 (51:09):
Yeah. Good question. Um, I guess there's a couple ways you could do it depending on your circumstance. I'd say, um, you could bring in someone that either has experience on the doors and is just not doing well in your company. Similar, you know, I had the opportunity to, I was about to leave. I was able to take this opportunity instead. Um, you could pull someone in, you could even hire, I mean, a lot of this could be an hourly type of role, but like I would say the first, first position, which would totally pay for itself is bringing someone in to work on like new hire experience, help the recruiting process, flow into the onboarding, help that person get to their first sale. So, um, you could hire someone for that role and have that really be your focus. And then you will again have that person pay for themselves many times over.
Speaker 3 (51:54):
So then that new cashflow can kind of help you build out that little department if you want. Um, or I would kind of split it up amongst your management. So even if he didn't have anybody focusing on this system, um, and you just had, you know, a manager that was really focused on the interviewing process and the training, like boot camp type of training, and then you assigned yourself one or two mentors within your org that were going to help out with this new hire experience. I think that is really the most important. So you could, um, you know, I'd say first step, if you don't have any other leaders is identify people in your org that you would want to pull into a mentorship type of po
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