Sukkah 43 - August 19, 11 Elul

Why does a lulav override Shabbat only when the first day falls on Shabbat? And why only in the time of the Temple? Does it override Shabbat in some places even after the time of the Temple? Why? The gemara brings a braita with a drasha from where it is derived that the lulav is taken even on Shabbat. However, based on a question, they conclude that the braita is only according to Rabbi Eliezer as it means that preparations for the lulav are permitted on Shabbat as per his approach in general. The gemara then tries to figure out what Rabbi Eliezer and the rabbis each derive from the different parts of the verse - including from where does each derive that lulav is only to be taken during the day? From where is it derived that Sukkah is a mitzva during both the day and the night? The mitzva of arava on the seventh day overrides Shabbat in the time of the Temple? Why only the seventh and why specifically the seventh? What about after the destruction of the Temple? Could the seventh ever fall on Shabbat? Rav Yosef holds that it doesn't override Shabbat after the destruction as the mitzva of arava is to place them around the altar and there is no altar. Abaye brings 3 sources to question Rav Yosef. The first two have resolutions but the third does not. Part of the discussion resolves around a debate among many (including Rav Yosef and Abaye) whether when they encircled the altar were they holding aravot or a lulav? In the end, the gemara concludes that after the Temple, arava does not override Shabbat as we no longer know exactly when the holiday is, as those in Babylonia were far from where the new moon was determined. And those in Israel keep the same law as to keep the laws the same everywhere. They then conclude that the same is true for lulav.