episode 8 – werewolf + changeling with josh heath

Another special guest joins us this week! Josh Heath from Werewolf: the Podcast is here to talk about Werewolf: the Apocalypse and its synergies with Changeling: the Dreaming. What are some of the similar themes? Do the Garou and Kithain have shared history to call out? How should one set up a crossover between the two? We tackle these questions and more, and natter for a bit about the Auspice we'd all be (because WtA astrology is a thing).

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One of the interesting bits of connective tissue between WtA and CtD to bear in mind is that characters in each can often do similar things, but from different perspectives (metaphysically, spiritually, grammatically, etc.) Various kiths have the ability to change shape, as the Garou and other Changing Breeds do, but they're rarely doing it to go into battle or even commune with their nature. Delirium hides the actions of the Garou as a remnant of primal human terror; the Mists hide the actions of the fae as a form of preservation (and maybe also a bit of human terror). Each group has an otherworld they can enter with relative ease—though stepping sideways is usually simpler—and with which they have a deep spiritual connection. But those realms are entirely different in terms of their atmospheres, level of danger, their denizens, and the lessons they teach. Maybe most importantly, both groups lean heavily into the importance of social (Title/motley and Rank/pack) and familial (Kinfolk and Kinain) ties, but have very different structures for dealing with both their fellow supernaturals and mortal Kin.

There are also lots of points of similarity. There are redcaps as bloodthirsty as any Ahroun, raiding a Pentex facility is something many changelings will support just as much as a werewolf, and songs and epic tales are arguably essential to the survival of both. Aside from the mechanics that have to be organized for a crossover game, bearing thematic links like these is important to have the game feel right. Players can explore what it means to their characters to see their comrade doing the not-quite-same thing as they do, and consider whether it's an opportunity for one or both of them to grow a bit.

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assorted crossover notes

Among the X20 books, there's more about crossovers in C20 than W20 (Werewolf mystics "can apparently travel to Arcadia"?? but changelings who go with them fall into Malfeas??) (these are not recommended as story elements for your game), but more solid material can be found in the older books. Some assorted tidbits that might be helpful:

• While C20 has walked this back a bit, traditionally the Black Spiral Dancers have had dealings and occasional alliances with the Shadow Court.
• There are three Fianna Kinfolk families (two of Irish background, one of Breton) called "The Kin" who have high rates of werewolf and fae blood in their lineage. 3 out of 10 of their children are Garou (triple the rate of most Kinfolk families), 1 to 3 out of the remaining 7 will be Kithain, and the rest are likely to be Kinain (in addition to Kinfolk).
• A Fianna elder apparently lives at Caer Palisades and is Queen Mab's advisor on Prodigal affairs in the Kingdom of Apples.
• House Balor insists that the fomori are not the Fomorians or their agents, and are only threats to Prodigals; they would know the difference.
• We talk about why the Get of Fenris despises the fae (especially sidhe) so much in the episode, but trolls and the Nunnehi are specifically exempt from their ire.
• In addition to the other Changing Breeds mentioned in the episode (Ananasi, Bastet, Corax, Rokea), the Kitsune and the Nuwisha are popular crossover choices, due to their tricksiness.

And on top of that, we do have an upcoming episode about Rage Across Appalachia, the specific Werewolf/Changeling crossover book! (Spoiler: it's mostly Werewolf.)

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where to find josh heath

Some places online where you can find Josh and his work:

• Werewolf: the Podcast feed (https://keepontheheathlands.podbean.com/)!
• ...as well as its Twitter (https://twitter.com/podcastwerewolf) and Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/werewolfthepodcast/)
• We should also use this as an opportunity to once again shout out Mage: the Podcast (http://www.magethepodcast.com), of which Josh is technically a host...
• ...but also, for all things Trinity Continuum related, check out the OpCast (https://anchor.fm/opcast/)!
• Stealing shamelessly from the show notes of Mage: the Podcast's chat with Josh, here's a list of the many projects he's contributed to on Storyteller's Vault
• Josh can also sometimes be found in various places on Discord, distributing truth and beauty about the Garou Nation like a Jaggling in the night

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your hosts

Josh Hillerup (he/him) asks, "Werewolf?"

Pooka G (any pronoun/they) responds, "There. There, wolf. There, castle," thinking Josh wanted to talk that way.

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"The dream is not like the world of flesh... Here the same hunt can have many endings." —Hopper in Robert Jordan's The Dragon Reborn

(psst! email us at podcast@changelingthepodcast.com if you want) (and join our Discord at https://discord.gg/SAryjXGm5j !)