#121: What is school for? (ft. Dr Naomi Fisher)

“We are socialized to believe that schooling is synonymous with education, and that if you don't conform the problem is you".

Today we are joined by Dr Naomi Fisher, an independent clinical psychologist and EMDR consultant and author of ‘Changing our Minds: How Children Can Take Control of their Own Learning’.

We discuss how the school system often fails to meet peoples needs; the children, the teachers and the parents. How schools enforce compliance and alienation instead of educating children to follow their natural curiosity. How those early experiences of success or failure can shape ones self-conception into adulthood, and how we are taught from an early age to see others as competition.

We also cover 'self-directed education', how learning is a process of meaning making, extrinsic vs intrinsic motivation, studying subjects because you’re 'good' at them opposed to what actually interests you, consent and control, why it's a mistake to demonize video games and how empowerment can't start with forced compliance.

“Children are born full of curiosity, eager to participate in the world. They learn as they live, with enthusiasm and joy. Then we send them to school. We stop them from playing and actively exploring their interests, telling them it’s more important to sit still and listen. The result is that for many children, their motivation to learn drops dramatically. The joy of the early years is replaced with apathy and anxiety.

This is not inevitable. Self-directed education puts the child back in control of their learning. This enables children, including those diagnosed with special educational needs, to flourish in their own time and on their own terms. It enables us to put wellbeing at the centre of education.”

References:

Changing Our Minds by Dr Naomi Fisher: https://www.hachette.co.uk/titles/naomi-fisher/changing-our-minds/9781472145505/

Naomi's Substack: https://naomicfisher.substack.com

Naomi's Website: https://www.naomifisher.co.uk

Naomi's Twitter: https://twitter.com/naomicfisher

Troublemakers: Lessons in Freedom from Young Children at School by Carla Shalaby: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29502429-troublemakers

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Harriet’s other shows:

WBAI Interpersonal Update (Wednesdays): https://wbai.org/program.php?program=431

Capitalism Hits Home: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPJpiw1WYdTNYvke-gNRdml1Z2lwz0iEH

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ATTENTION! This is a Boring Dystopia/Obligatory 'don't sue us' message: This podcast provides numerous different perspectives and criticisms of the mental health space, however, it should not be considered medical advice. Please consult your medical professional with regards to any health decisions or management.