How to Explore Kinks & Fetishes

• Why do we develop fetishes and kinks like heirophilia and small penis humiliation?
• How do you tell a partner about a specific desire, fantasy or kink?
• What are the costs of not opening up about a kink or fetish?
• If you’re into something and they’re not, how can you bridge the gap?

Carli DeVille, the ultimate guide to all things tantalizing and titillating, joins us to answer these questions are much more. As a sexologist, licensed psychotherapist, and relationship coach, Carli specializes in kinks, fetishes, sissification, and domination training. With their unapologetically flirty approach and extensive expertise, they help individuals and couples navigate their deepest desires and embrace their naughty side. Carli’s passion for empowering others to celebrate their sexuality shines through in their role as the captivating host of the Naughtylicious Sex Podcast.

Here, they delve into sizzling topics, address intriguing intimacy issues, and ignite open conversations about everything from the everyday to the forbidden. When they’re not offering sex coaching or hosting their podcast – Carli can be found captivating their YouTube audience with their magnetic personality and salacious advice. Whether it’s discussing the latest sex trends or providing guidance on spicing up your love life, Carli’s wit and charm keep viewers coming back for more. As your guide to unlocking hidden pleasures and unleashing your inner vixen, Carli DeVille is the perfect companion on your journey to a more passionate, fulfilling, and deliciously naughty life. No question is too naughty; and no fantasy is too wild for this audacious expert.

So go ahead, dare to explore, and let Carli show you the way with their irresistible wit, charm, and naughty sense of humor. Follow Carli online, on YouTube, and on the Naughtylicious Podcast (Apple Podcast or Spotify). Also, be sure to check out their brand new book.

This episode is brought to you by Desire Cruises – a unique experience for adventurous couples! Join us as we cruise to the Greek Isles in August and the South of France next Spring 2024.

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Rough Transcript:

This is a computer-generated rough transcript, so please excuse any typos. This podcast is an informational conversation and is not a substitute for medical, health, or other professional advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the services of an appropriate professional should you have individual questions or concerns.

How to Explore Kinks & Fetishes

Episode 322

[00:00:00] You’re listening to the Sex with Dr. Jess podcast, sex and Relationship Advice you Can Use Tonight.

[00:00:13] Jess O’Reilly: Today we are talking kinks and fetishes, and this is gonna be a good one. We’ve talked about kinks and fetishes before, and just as a brief, Brief recap. Kink generally refers to anything unconventional, which of course, you know what’s unconventional for me may not be unconventional to you.

[00:00:29] Jess O’Reilly: It might be your regular Monday afternoon routine. And fetishism different than kink generally refers to an actual need for a specific act or object to be present in order to experience arousal and satisfaction. So again, kink is more of a preference, and then fetishism tends to be more of a strong, strong preference or need.

[00:00:49] Jess O’Reilly: And here to help us break it down. We have sexologist and psychotherapist, Carly Deville, host of the Naughty Licious Sex podcast, and author of a book by the same name, Naty Licious. And first and foremost, tell us all about your brand new book.

[00:01:04] Carli DeVille: Oh, hello. So good to be back. So my book, it’s actually kind of like a hybrid.

[00:01:11] Carli DeVille: It’s a book. But more importantly, it’s a game. So what I kind of did was, you know, I work a lot with couples and whenever with couples and people that are like looking to date and looking to like, explore their sexuality with people. And a lot of the times, um, I’m always constantly recommending like conversations starter games for them and for people in long-term relationships.

[00:01:34] Carli DeVille: You know, I’ve had a lot of people that are like, our conversations have dried out. Like we don’t even know what to talk about. It’s awkward when we go to dinner. It’s awkward when we go for walks. So I’m always like, you know what? Use a conversation game. They’re super easy, just get some cards and you don’t even have to worry about what questions to ask.

[00:01:50] Carli DeVille: And I also use those cuz you know, they have some to deep in connections. They have some that are a little bit more about sex and like kinks and fetishes to like, get people to, to know about uh, [00:02:00] that stuff. So I wanted to create one that kind of blended the like, yes, no, maybe list. So that helped people find out like about their particular interests, the conversation, the starter games.

[00:02:12] Carli DeVille: Both sexual and the intimate. So this is a sex conversation game for daring couples only. If you’re not daring, don’t even bother.

[00:02:22] Jess O’Reilly: So it’s not a 1 0 1? No, no, no.

[00:02:24] Carli DeVille: You can ba basically like it’s over 200 questions raging from everything. Like, uh, would you rather. To some questions designed to build intimacy and to get to know each other.

[00:02:36] Carli DeVille: So I know we were gonna be talking about like desired discrepancies, right? So there’s a lot of questions in there that are built for that. So something along the lines of like, what would help put you in the mood if you’re not in the mood, you know? And then it has some questions about sex acts, pretty much like any situation that you can think of.

[00:02:52] Carli DeVille: How would you feel about going to a strip club together? You know, like how would you feel about anal sex if you’re not into it? What would. Maybe help you open up to the idea, you know?

[00:03:04] Jess O’Reilly: Excellent, excellent. We need, we need those. I, you know, I see couples at dinner all the time sitting in silence, feeling awkward and without judgment, I think I can see that they’re judging themselves or like, what is wrong with us?

[00:03:15] Jess O’Reilly: What is wrong with our relationship? Where do we go wrong? When in fact, you know, familiarity is just mm-hmm. It settles in. Over time. Mm-hmm. And it’s easy to run out of things to say, and it doesn’t mean that the relationship is on its last legs. It just means you need to do something to restart those conversations.

[00:03:30] Jess O’Reilly: So the book is called Naughty, illustrious. We’re gonna link it in the show notes, and I think people are gonna get more of a flavor for the work you do and your approach as we, as we dive in to kinks and fetishes. So you were with all sorts. Of kinks and fetishes.

[00:03:44] Carli DeVille: Mm-hmm.

[00:03:45] Jess O’Reilly: ‘Right. I saw one that had to do with, is it attraction to priests Lately you had posted about

[00:03:49] Carli DeVille: Oh, ophia.

[00:03:51] Carli DeVille: Yes, Ophia. So Ophia is basically, you know, like a strong sexual attraction to anything related to religion. And [00:04:00] while I was like doing research for that, there was just so many fascinating things. That link religion to kings and fetishes, that I had no idea. I didn’t even know that the word fetish came from religion, you know?

[00:04:11] Carli DeVille: So back then, any sort of like religious objects were called fetishes. They were supposed to have like magical powers. And then at some point, I forgot who it was, but there was like some sexologists. That when they were trying to come up with a word for it, for like, um, for fe what we know as fetishist.

[00:04:29] Carli DeVille: Now they took that word because they felt that something that’s not supposed to give you sexual pleasure right, like a foot is suddenly has like this magical power to arouse people who wouldn’t be aroused by anything else. I always thought that was very interesting.

[00:04:43] Jess O’Reilly: That totally makes sense. And when we think about right, religion and sex, we think of them as, you know, oftentimes, especially in like western religion, being at odds with one another.

[00:04:52] Jess O’Reilly: But what fuels that attraction to religious objects or religious figures? Like does it have to do with subversion of roles or shame?

[00:05:00] Carli DeVille: I think it depends, right? Because some people are, Actually very religious that are into it, and some people are not, and they just like, maybe like the aesthetic or just the taboo nature, the blasphemy at all, the blasphemy of it all.

[00:05:15] Carli DeVille: You know, so they’re attracted to that. But then people that are religious, it’s just like any other situation where you. Associate the excitement that you get from the congregation. You know, like you just think about it sometimes they’re so animated, they’re so exciting, and they’re so like lively, and that excitement sometimes can get confused with arousal, right?

[00:05:36] Carli DeVille: Probably they just learn the next thing you know, you’re. Having sex dressed as a nun,

[00:05:40] Jess O’Reilly: that, I mean, that arousal from any area of our lives, it’s so easy to connect that with sexual arousal, erotic arousal, because the, the bodily response is the same, the chemistry is the same. Now, do you allow your mind to go there to support the subjective side of the arousal?

[00:05:55] Jess O’Reilly: Is the question, and I’m so, I’m sure so many people stop themselves because, because [00:06:00] of the shame, because of the cultural messaging around this shouldn’t be exciting for me. Right. We’ve seen this, uh, with, with so many different, you know, even with. You know, conversations around orgasmic childbirth where people will accidentally, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:06:11] Jess O’Reilly: Accidentally have an orgasm and then they feel so much shame around it and they haven’t talked about it. I mean, that, that’s a whole other topic, but I wanna go to the basics with you, right? Where do you begin if you have a kink or a fetish, and however you define it, because again, I can say a fetish is an actual need, but not everybody defines it that way.

[00:06:26] Jess O’Reilly: Like some people will say, I have a foot fetish, I have a pantyhose fetish. It doesn’t mean that I have to have, you know, play with objectification of feet, but I love it. So whether you have a kink or a fetish, where do you even begin when telling a partner? Because I know so many people who are living in silence.

[00:06:42] Jess O’Reilly: Living in shame, holding back a part of themselves that is so integral, not only to their sexual expression and pleasure, but to who they are. So how do we begin that conversation with a partner, new or old?

[00:06:52] Carli DeVille: I think, you know, definitely with new it’s easier in in a way, but I’m always telling everyone you need to have these conversations as early I.

[00:07:01] Carli DeVille: As possible. You know, maybe not on the first day, that’s what you should kind of be getting to know each other. But maybe on, like on the second and third day you can start opening up by being, saying something along the lines of, you know, a strong, intimate relationship where we’re able to share our fantasies and our desires.

[00:07:20] Carli DeVille: It’s something that’s really important to me and kind of get that conversation going, see what they say, and then branch off from there, you know, to where you. Start talking about the things that interest you, you know, and trying to do it in a way that’s fun. Conversations about sex should stay fun. And you know, like with long-term relationships and there’s like some sort of problems arise in the bedroom, the conversations start getting so negative.

[00:07:43] Carli DeVille: Mm-hmm. To the point where not only do people not wanna have sex, but they don’t even wanna talk about a way to fix it. So starting off like. As soon as possible in a fun way. Like, Hey, did you know, when I was little I was like, really turned on by my priests and I always wish I could seduce him. [00:08:00] True.

[00:08:01] Carli DeVille: Sorry. True. Sorry.

[00:08:02] Jess O’Reilly: Oh, I mean that is, that is such, so key and I do think it’s something that is left outta the equation and I think I’m probably guilty of this because my brain works when I’m making, you know, conversation starters and language to support couples. Yeah. I’m, I have to admit, I don’t think I put as much fun into it as I could.

[00:08:19] Jess O’Reilly: Right. And the conversation itself. Should be fun. Why is that so important? How do we keep the conversations fun? How do we make them not feel so burdensome and heavy?

[00:08:28] Carli DeVille: You know, when I started off working in this field, I noticed that people. Seemed to enjoy the approach that I had and my icon growing up was like, Elvira, Mr.

[00:08:44] Carli DeVille: The Dark, which of you Dunno who she is. She’s like very campy, uses like a lot of innuendos. So I always had a kinda like a tongue in cheek sort of way of approaching sexuality and I noticed that that helped a lot in my sessions. It helped people open up, you know, if I made some silly little joke about.

[00:09:00] Carli DeVille: Sex or small penis humiliation, um, they would kind of crack up about it and it would break the tension and it would help people open up. And that’s actually one of the reasons why I wrote this book and made it like, so there’s, aside from those questions, I have a lot of kinks and fetishes in there, and they tell you about like why people are into it, what.

[00:09:22] Carli DeVille: What activities you can do, but it’s all done in a fun and flirty manner to where you’re reading it. I think I have a question on like, um, explaining how a lot of people are aware of, uh, using penis pumps, you know, not just for fun, but for erectile dysfunction, and did you know that? Some people use pumps for like the vulva, the anus, the nipples.

[00:09:42] Carli DeVille: Like how would you feel about pumping up the pleasure? You know? So by the end of it, it’s almost like fun and flirting. You’re like, wait, what? People do that? Pumping up the pleasure? So you kind of laugh and it’s not as threatening to. Open up, and that’s why I always recommend conversation starters, books and games to [00:10:00] begin with, just because it helps.

[00:10:02] Carli DeVille: People are so worried of saying what they’re into, that if you open it up and it’s like, Specification. You know, I’m not the one asking it. It says right here, are you into specification? And you can find out how your partner feels about it, and then decide how much you wanna share and how much you wanna open up.

[00:10:20] Jess O’Reilly: Well, I like the idea of a book that’s looking at both like the, you know, Intimacy side and the more practical side, but also getting a little bit kinkier because you’re right, it’s sort of an excuse, excuse that’s very kinky. Yeah. It’s an excuse to have the conversation, so Right. It’s not, I’m just, you know, sitting at the dinner table saying, oh, this broccoli is so well done.

[00:10:36] Jess O’Reilly: And also I really, really liked. This particular thing, I’m really into horses or I’m very turned on by dolphins. Yeah. Or dentistry or whatever the case may be. I’m on the DS right now. But if, if there is already a conversation where we’re creating a safe space where it’s like, you know what puts you in the mood for sex?

[00:10:52] Jess O’Reilly: What did you learn about sex growing up? And you don’t have to do it all at once, right? It’s not like they have to get your book sit down and knock it outta the park. It could be one question a week, it could be one page a week, depending on how people want, want to invest. So you, I think those are a couple really important pieces there.

[00:11:06] Jess O’Reilly: The other thing I, I suggest to people, and maybe I’ll go to you first when they’ve been together a while, I think it’s oftentimes harder to open up to someone where the stakes are so much higher. Like if it’s a brand new relationship. Of course there’s the chance that it won’t be a fit or you’re afraid they’re gonna leave you.

[00:11:22] Jess O’Reilly: But when you’ve been with someone two years, five years, 20 years, how do you suggest they open up those conversations? Yes. Like your book and conversation starters. What else tends to work? I

[00:11:33] Carli DeVille: think other things that tend to work are whenever people are just casually when something happens in the surrounding like environment.

[00:11:42] Carli DeVille: Usually if it’s something like, let’s say someone’s walking by and these. Neon and fishnets, right? You’re just like at the mall with your boo, having your little margarita and suddenly like this hot girl walks by with her little like neon fishnet and someone who’s in, who has like a [00:12:00] pantyhose fetish, right?

[00:12:01] Carli DeVille: Like they might look at it and they’re like, oh my God, that is so hot. I’m about to cream myself right now. You know? But they don’t wanna share it with their partner. So just kind of taking those baby steps and being like, oh, wow, look at those. Fishnets. Those are interesting, you know, and seeing how your partner feels about that, and just opening that conversation to where you start talking about the things that interest you, because people pick up on things that you will find exciting, right?

[00:12:23] Carli DeVille: If you’re excited about something, the other person’s gonna be intrigued or excited too. So then they’re gonna be like, oh, those pantyhose, like, yeah, those are pretty hot. Maybe you should buy some. Maybe we should go buy ub, right? And kind of start the conversation in that way. Or if you’re watching something in a movie or it’s.

[00:12:39] Carli DeVille: TV show, you know, just thinking like, wow, you know what? That looks a little interesting. Have you ever thought about doing something like that? Or, you know, we’ve been together for so long and we’ve never even thought about doing anything like that. What do you say about trying that? You know,

[00:12:52] Jess O’Reilly: I love that.

[00:12:53] Jess O’Reilly: That’s really my favorite one is the turning to pop culture, because yeah, there’s so much more diversity in pop culture, whether it’s in music lyrics or whether it’s in the streaming services and shows that have nothing to do about sex. Touch on sex in so many ways. I’m just rewatching, uh, succession.

[00:13:08] Jess O’Reilly: And there’s, there are all these pieces to pull out of there, like how not to spring an open relationship on your partner on your wedding night and how not to talk dirty and tell them you, you don’t actually love them when you actually mean it and it’s not actually kinky play. And I think those are opportunities to have those types of conversations.

[00:13:24] Jess O’Reilly: About the characters and I call it that third party bridge wherein we’re actually talking about Shiv and Tom, the characters from succession. We’re not talking about Jess and Brandon, right? We’re talking about Shiv and Tom. And in sharing how I feel about Shivs language or Tom’s reaction, or Tom’s super annoying voice, uh, Brandon can get an idea.

[00:13:43] Jess O’Reilly: Brandon, and no spoilers here. I was about to say something. Brandon can get an idea of how I. Feel about different scenarios, different roles, different approaches, different kinks and fetishes as well. So I love that. And then the teachable moment thing is huge. We do that with kids all the time. Like when, yeah, an opportunity like [00:14:00] neon pantyhose presents itself.

[00:14:02] Jess O’Reilly: Mm-hmm. Or in a city like Toronto, where you might see somebody walking down the street with a partner who is collared at times. I’m not saying it’s all the time. But these things do come up probably more up here than in Texas. I don’t know. But you’re in Austin.

[00:14:15] Carli DeVille: I’m in Austin, right? Yeah. You’re, it’s like a little hole.

[00:14:18] Jess O’Reilly: It’s a, a direct hole to Canada or something. But to, to, without judgment, just ask somebody, ask a partner how they feel, and to have those conversations with other people as well. Like even not with sexual partners. I think normalizing the conversation is so important. So I think you’ve given some really specific actions people can take to start the conversation now.

[00:14:36] Jess O’Reilly: I wanna talk a little bit about what holds us back and what are the costs of not telling them, because I think we don’t speak up about a long held desire, fetish or kink because we have a fear of judgment. We have a fear of loss, we have a fear of, you know, not being loved. But what is the flip side of that?

[00:14:53] Jess O’Reilly: How does it affect relationships? When you hold that in,

[00:14:56] Carli DeVille: ironically, it is, uh, judgment and loss, right? Like mm-hmm. When you’re holding something back and it finally comes to the light, the person just feels so betrayed that you were keeping something from them or feeling like, why, why can’t you trust me?

[00:15:12] Carli DeVille: So it’s not necessarily like judging what they’re into, because at that point, a person sometimes might be really hurt, like. I can’t believe this is something that you’ve been into. This is something that you’ve been needing for so long and you have not, not told me. And our relationship has suffered because of that.

[00:15:26] Carli DeVille: You know, that can be really traumatic for, for a person. And it’s, I mean, I don’t wanna sound like an alarmist, but like, You open up the doors for your partner and even yourself to be unfaithful and jeopardize the relationship. You know, I talk with like a lot of sex workers and, uh, do tricks and they’re always telling me like, most of my clients wish that they could be doing this with their partner.

[00:15:52] Carli DeVille: You know, they would love to be able to have this new, met with their partner and feel that like safety of being [00:16:00] vulnerable with the things that turning on, the things that, you know. Make you come like crazy. So being able to share that with your partner is so different than someone who’s professional.

[00:16:10] Carli DeVille: And they always tell me like, like they love it, they enjoy it, but they kind of wish that their partner could engage with them on that. So, you know, open up, be vulnerable. You have nothing to lose, you know, like you’re already, especially if it’s something that you’re really into, you’re already self, you know what I mean?

[00:16:26] Carli DeVille: So you’re already suffering chances. The relationship is suffering already too. So you can just open it up and the worst they can say is no. You know, that’s the worst that can happen. And you at that point though, you don’t feel like you’re keeping something. And if your interest ever came to the surface that it wouldn’t be anything that’s like, what, you didn’t tell me that you were into clowns, like how dare you.

[00:16:46] Jess O’Reilly: Right. Right. And that, that avoidance that comes from anxiety, as you said, produces. The feelings and the experience that we’re exactly trying to avoid. Right, right, right. So we don’t wanna feel the shame, so we hold it in and it further intensifies the shame. Exactly. We don’t wanna deal with rejection, but in not sharing such an important part of ourselves or vulnerable part of ourselves, we’re rejecting ourselves.

[00:17:08] Jess O’Reilly: And rejection and judgment from self can be so much more intense. Then rejection and judgment from someone else. So you mentioned, you know, sometimes people will go to outside sources and they wish they could be exploring fetishes or kinks with their partner. But the reality is that not, not everybody is compatible, right?

[00:17:26] Jess O’Reilly: There are you?

[00:17:27] Carli DeVille: Right.

[00:17:27] Jess O’Reilly: You know, th they. Could say no, but they could also judge you. Right? The judgment is what really, really stings. Yeah. So how do we bridge that gap? If you’re into something and they’re not, how do we make sure that A, that’s okay. Like you don’t have to like all the same things. And how do you actually bridge that gap from a practical sense in a relationship?

[00:17:45] Carli DeVille: You know, and, and that’s why like I cannot stress enough. It’s so important to rip that bandaid off as soon as you can because it does get harder and harder and harder to share what you’re into as time goes, [00:18:00] goes by. So one, just understanding yourself, right? Like trying to remove any sort of shame that you’re feeling towards what you’re into.

[00:18:10] Carli DeVille: Really just take like a hard look at yourself and be like, Why am I ashamed about this? Like I’m interested in something that might be a little unusual, but I’m not hurting anyone. You know, like I’m not doing anything bad. It’s just something that maybe is like a little, a little kinky, but I really enjoy, once you work through whatever’s holding you back from.

[00:18:29] Carli DeVille: Like really aggressing yourself and what you’re, what you’re into to your partners, then you’re gonna have such an easier time having that conversation with your partner. Cause if you’re not, if you haven’t worked through your own shame and you go to your partner to tell them about it, that whole, that shame is gonna be there.

[00:18:46] Carli DeVille: Right. And it’s almost like people can sense it, people can sense, um, energy. And if you’re going like, oh my God. Like I feel this, I feel that that partner is going to. Feel that shame, right? So they might just focus on and be like, you’re right, you should be ashamed, right? But like, you know, this is what I meant to, I haven’t told you.

[00:19:05] Carli DeVille: Like, be very, like, matter of fact, remove the emotions from what you’re experiencing because in emotions make you start thinking and things in a completely different way that’s not logical and it’s not rational. If you’ve ever been around anyone emotional, you know they don’t mean right? So remove that emotion from your message.

[00:19:24] Carli DeVille: Be very matter of fact, Hey, you know I’m in two chastity play. There’s just something about lock up my Venus in Chastity and giving the key to someone and having them control whenever I orgasm is incredibly exciting for me. And I would love to be able to share that with you. But if that’s not something that you’re into, I understand.

[00:19:42] Carli DeVille: I just thought that you should know something like that about me. So it’s not as threatening if you’re just like, so still in that shame bubble where you’re like, oh, well I really like this. And they’re like, but you like what? Like it’s so easy for them to take over the conversation when you’re the one that should be the star of this [00:20:00] conversation.

[00:20:00] Jess O’Reilly: Right? And, and you can like what you like without your partner being into it. We have this, I think part of, you know, the myth. Of perfect monogamy, or even some people would use the language of toxic monogamy suggests that if we are going to be a fit together, everything I’m into, Brandon should fit perfectly into that puzzle piece, right?

[00:20:19] Jess O’Reilly: So if he’s really into chastity play and he wants me to lock up his penis and hold the key, I must derive the same amount of pleasure from playing the opposite role, and that’s just simply not realistic. However, it really isn’t. I can be into his pleasure. I can be into the power. So I think that if we can extract what it is we wanna feel and see how that might balance or compliment with our, with what our partners wanna feel, we can play with it.

[00:20:44] Jess O’Reilly: So if he wants his penis locked up in the cage and I hold the key, and that’s not something that I love. Well, what about that might I be into? Right? Like maybe

[00:20:52] Carli DeVille: Exactly.

[00:20:53] Carli DeVille: I

[00:20:53] Jess O’Reilly: don’t really care if his penis is locked up or not. I don’t really care about the cage. I don’t really care about the key. But I’ll tell you what I do, like, I do like power.

[00:20:58] Carli DeVille: Mm-hmm.

[00:20:59] Jess O’Reilly: I do like control, and so I’ve played with that in other areas with him. I’ve never locked up his penis. So if I were to do that, I might enjoy the power side. Right. Or maybe again, I don’t really like the locking up, but I like the, the making him wait and making myself wait, like maybe I like begging for it too.

[00:21:17] Jess O’Reilly: Like maybe it, it isn’t, isn’t about power, maybe it’s about

[00:21:20] Carli DeVille: Dr. Jess .

[00:21:21] Jess O’Reilly: Yeah, right. Like I can extract those pieces. Um, I’m gonna ask you in a moment about a pantyhose fetish, same thing if Brandon was really into pantyhouse and, and honestly, I never wear pantyhose. Like I’m, I’m a real comfort person. Um,

[00:21:34] Carli DeVille: yeah.

[00:21:34] Jess O’Reilly: Always in like a, a comfy, comfy dress. And probably not so comfortable shoes, but they’re comfortable to me within recent, so I don’t wear them, but if I know he likes them, I could probably find something I like about them. Like I might like to be gagged with them, or I like, might like to be blindfolded with them, or I might love it.

[00:21:53] Jess O’Reilly: I might like the disgust factor of like giving him them after I’ve worn them for the day, right?

[00:21:58] Carli DeVille: Mm-hmm.

[00:21:58] Jess O’Reilly: Like there’s something I can [00:22:00] pull out of that. And I do think it’s because, I mean, I’m not saying I’m perfect, but I don’t feel like, I feel a lot of judgment around sex. Like if you’re into some, I mean, sort of my job, but also it’s why I got into this field in the first place. Right?

[00:22:10] Carli DeVille: Right.

[00:22:10] Jess O’Reilly: Like, do what you do. How can I support you? Right. Yeah. Yeah. And so of course I wanna feel that from my partner. And I think it’s also okay if my first response to him isn’t like, oh yeah, let’s do that together. I might say like, Well, I’m not into that. That makes me uncomfortable, but I’m glad you told me.

[00:22:25] Jess O’Reilly: Let’s see where we can go with this. Like the first response may not be where we get to in a week, in a month, in a year.

[00:22:30] Carli DeVille: Right. And what I also tell people, like when you’re having those conversations and if you get like a, you know, that kind of makes me uncomfortable. You can follow up with, is there anything that would.

[00:22:40] Carli DeVille: Help make you feel a little bit more comfortable or is there anything that might, a baby step that you might be able to take to meet me, if not halfway, just like a little, just a tip in, you know what I mean?

[00:22:50] Jess O’Reilly: Right. Yeah. Well, well you mentioned that sometimes people will go to professionals to have their needs explored or fulfilled.

[00:22:57] Jess O’Reilly: And again, that doesn’t mean that I have to do everything Brandon wants or he’s gonna, you know, go someplace else. And, and again, I’m talking, I guess in the context of a somewhat mono, a monogamous relationship, but I do think the more open I am to it, the more I’m willing to do. At least a not judge, and then maybe move into like 1%, 2%, 5%.

[00:23:15] Jess O’Reilly: I don’t even have to get to 50. The more likely he’s going to feel respected, the more likely his shame is going to help dissipate. I can support in that, and the more we’re probably going to explore and learn more about one another, right? Like there’s all

[00:23:27] Carli DeVille: exactly,

[00:23:27] Jess O’Reilly: there are all these exciting things we might discover.

[00:23:29] Jess O’Reilly: Maybe he discovers, actually I did want my cock in a cage, but actually now what I’ve discovered is I really like just the fact that you hold the key. To my pleasure. Right. And maybe it’s not even about the cage. Maybe we don’t need to invest in the cage. Right. And listen, we got, you do mental chastity.

[00:23:44] Jess O’Reilly: Listen, I will be into the chastity cages when they create an app for it, because I do not have a key chain. Oh, I open.

[00:23:50] Carli DeVille: That’s amazing.

[00:23:50] Jess O’Reilly: Yeah. I open all my doors with my app. So when that that comes in, I’m in.

[00:23:55] Brandon Ware: That’s the funny thing I was thinking when you were talking about this, you know, Locking up my penis. I’m like, she’s [00:24:00] totally gonna lose the key or something’s gonna happen. And that’s how we’re gonna finish that off.

[00:24:06] Jess O’Reilly: So I really think there’s some good take home advice here. Um, I have a couple of quick questions if you have a minute or two from all the time for you from listeners. So you, you brought up pantyhose fetish.

[00:24:16] Jess O’Reilly: So this person has written in and said, I have a fetish for sheer pantyhose and older women because my stepmom used to wear nothing but pantyhose when she was around me. No panties, no bra, nothing. So I got a full view almost every day. Of course, it turned me on. We never did anything sexual though. Now I have dreams about her and can’t get those thoughts out of my head.

[00:24:35] Jess O’Reilly: I think about sex and pantyhose with her constantly. Not sure what to do. I’m 28 now. I moved out when I was 20.

[00:24:41] Carli DeVille: Oh, that’s my heart goes out to them because I’ve worked with a lot of clients that. Pick up an association between something that they’re interested in and then something that they like, don’t wanna be interested in.

[00:24:52] Carli DeVille: Right. And that that association that you have is so strong that your fear almost becomes a reality. Right? Like, you’re so scared that, that you’re into like that you’re. Getting off to some like nylon panty porn, and then all of a sudden you started thinking of your grandma, right? Or whoever it was, and you’re like, oh shit.

[00:25:13] Carli DeVille: Like this is horrific. Like I should, why am I like this? But it’s like the more that you are trying it to fight that off. Stronger that thought is going to be. It’s just the way that it is, right? If someone’s telling you, like, don’t push that button. You’re just thinking like, wow, what’s going on with that button?

[00:25:30] Carli DeVille: You know? Does it have a pantyhose fetish water present? So the one thing that I want them to know is that it’s really all. It really is all in your head. You’re the one creating this. So you need to learn to identify as soon as that image, or as soon as that thought starts coming into your head, just do something to shift your focus to something else.

[00:25:58] Carli DeVille: You know, it might need to be [00:26:00] a different type of, um, of kink or a different type of stimulation, a different toy or a different porn or something. You just want like a shift. Then you can go back once you’ve forgotten about granny and the, and the nylons, you know, you can go back to enjoying the things that you do.

[00:26:17] Carli DeVille: And then over time like that, that moment of time is going to get shorter and shorter of where you have to go to something else. Right. Because at that point you’re, you’re not worried of like, oh my God, I’m gonna start thinking of my grandma, because you take some control by saying, if this happens, I will do this.

[00:26:33] Carli DeVille: And really anxiety is the. The fear of the unknown, the loss of control. So anything that you can do to feel a little bit more in control is gonna help you over time. It’s not gonna be easy, it’s not gonna happen overnight, but the more that you do that, the easier it’ll get. Then pretty soon you’ll just be like, you’ll think back to be like, oh my God, I’m so, I can’t believe I used to be so worried about that.

[00:26:57] Carli DeVille: Like, that’s not a thing that I’m really into. I’m into. The pantyhose. It just so happened to the pantyhose being attached to someone and that fear, you know, gets linked. It’s very similar to what you were talking about, like the orgasmic childbirth, right? Like sometimes people will have like an orgasm through childbirth and they’ll start thinking like, oh my God, what’s wrong with me?

[00:27:17] Carli DeVille: Is this something that’s like, no, it just so happens that you had a. Physical reaction. At the same time. It was like a mental, emotional, sexual, sensual reactions, and it all just came together and formed that association. But the way that it was formed, you can also un formm it. So just focus on doing the, the refocusing technique.

[00:27:36] Carli DeVille: Anytime that you have that thought. And then when once you’re already feeling better and you’re not, it’s no longer on your brain, then you can go back. To it. And over time you’ll be able to enjoy the, your panic fetish without like having to worry about that.

[00:27:48] Jess O’Reilly: So you’re,

[00:27:48] Carli DeVille: and let know when it happens, I’ll give you some back.

[00:27:52] Jess O’Reilly: So if you can train, if your, if your body and mind can become trained to create an erotic association, it can be also trained to create new erotic [00:28:00] associations and also to. You know, chip away at that association. Now it sounds like you’re also saying go and explore the pantyhose fetish and it doesn’t have to be about your stepmom.

[00:28:08] Jess O’Reilly: Right, exactly. You can explore that, the object itself as a fetish in a, in a kinky way or through fetishism. And just maybe you can start,

[00:28:16] Carli DeVille: use the grounding. Yeah, use the grounding techniques like with the grounding techniques. And cuz again, you know, it’s so. Rooted in anxiety. Mm-hmm. And grounding techniques is all about engaging in your senses and the more that you engage in those senses your brain can’t think of, like, can have the thought process and then process your senses at the same time.

[00:28:35] Carli DeVille: Well, you know, so use that to your advantage whenever you are thinking of the, the pantyhose. Like what? Like what is it? Oh, I love the shear. I love the smell. Like the more that you describe what it is, the more you lose yourself into that panty hose, then you’re really losing yourself into what it is that you’re attracted to, to begin with.

[00:28:54] Carli DeVille: And the focus will be that object. It won’t be whatever thought you’re having around, it’ll be like, The, the sheerness of it, the how it feels on your leg or how it feels around your neck, or how it feels stuffed in your mouth. That which is what you are probably excited by anyway.

[00:29:09] Jess O’Reilly: And so it’s really give yourself permission to embrace that fetish.

[00:29:12] Jess O’Reilly: And maybe if you want to, you can separate it from that person who in your life, the stepmother and I, I guess probably it’s good to practice on your own, right? Like during self-pleasure, like when you’re touching yourself, you can. As you said, grounding techniques might be holding the pantyhose in one hand, using your other hand to touch yourself and just feeling tuning into the sensation of that.

[00:29:32] Jess O’Reilly: I don’t even know what pantyhose are made of silk. I, I don’t know. Let’s be rich and make it full of silk. Made of silk.

[00:29:38] Carli DeVille: I love it.

[00:29:38] Jess O’Reilly: And what does it feel like between your fingertips, right? What is that texture? Uh, I really, I really like that. So feel good about like, it’s okay, you’re not alone. There’s nothing wrong with you.

[00:29:48] Jess O’Reilly: Enjoy what part of it you want to enjoy. Which it sounds like it’s the pantyhose and maybe you can let go of the part that is more distressful for you, the attraction to the, to your stepmother or feeling like you’re always dreaming about her.

[00:29:59] Carli DeVille: [00:30:00] Exactly. And then I would definitely recommend if, if you are up for it, A therapist or like a sex coach or sex therapist or something like that because you need to let those thoughts out.

[00:30:10] Carli DeVille: The more that they’re trapped in your head, they’re just running wild. They’re just growing. So you need to like open, correct that, open, let all those thoughts out and just kind of purge them out of your system. So it’ll be really helpful to get them out and really process them and make sense out of them.

[00:30:24] Carli DeVille: And also learn some of the techniques that can help you.

[00:30:26] Jess O’Reilly: Great. Okay, one last quick one. So I receive emails all the time from men asking if I will indulge in small penis humiliation. So

[00:30:36] Carli DeVille: mm-hmm.

[00:30:37] Jess O’Reilly: That’s not what I do for a living, but there are people who can oblige. So could you tell us a little bit about what you know about small penis humiliation?

[00:30:45] Jess O’Reilly: Where can they begin? Because it’s not with me.

[00:30:49] Carli DeVille: Small penis humiliation. God, I think that’s one of the most fascinating, like kings I had, um, a dominatrix who specializes in small penis humiliation. She’s actually in Canada. Um, chastity queen. She also specializes in the chastity obviously, but, uh, she’s like a professional small penis humili and that she is, So good at it.

[00:31:11] Carli DeVille: Like on her Twitter feed, I, she’s always posting like the penis and with the caption of like, oh, look at this little use clitty. And maybe like put like a little chapstick, you know, to make fun of it. And I’m just laughing so hard. I wanna like, like them all, but I’m like, oh my God. Someone goes to my legs, this is gonna be tons of pictures of little dicks.

[00:31:28] Carli DeVille: You know, I have to fight the urge to do it. But it’s one of those things that, it depends, right? Because some people are into small penis humiliation and they have a, a small or maybe a little smaller than average penis. And with that, it might go back to that whole like, you know, eroticizing fear, eroticizing pain.

[00:31:45] Carli DeVille: So something that used to hurt you, something that used to like, cause you a lot of pain and sadness and sorrow is now suddenly something that’s. Sighting and you kind of take that control back, you take that power back and now it’s something that’s like really, really exciting for you and [00:32:00] pleasurable.

[00:32:00] Carli DeVille: Right. The one that’s always even more fascinating to me is people with like a large penis who are into small penis humiliation and that that’s, they’re definitely, they’re chastity. Queen had this one person that she was, uh, That we were talking to and he had like, he had a big one. It was huge. And, but he still loved, like having it humiliated and degraded and be like, oh my God, that’s so tiny.

[00:32:25] Carli DeVille: That’s so tiny. And he would be like, I don’t know what it is that, I don’t know why I like it. I just like, like the, the humiliation. You know, so like with everything, right? Like kings and fetishes are not like when panties fits all. So it just depends. But I think for the most part with small, something like small penis accumulation, it might have something to do with the rot sizing and sort of like fear of pain.

[00:32:45] Jess O’Reilly: Mm-hmm.

[00:32:45] Carli DeVille: Kinda getting around that and then making it fun.

[00:32:48] Jess O’Reilly: And having fun with it. Absolutely. I mean, penis size, we were way too into penis size. Like all penises

[00:32:53] Carli DeVille: Yeah.

[00:32:53] Jess O’Reilly: Are fabulous.

[00:32:54] Carli DeVille: All penises matter.

[00:32:55] Jess O’Reilly: They’re amazing. And if you want to humiliate your penis or focus on the small or the large, that’s fine.

[00:33:00] Jess O’Reilly: But also know that like there’s just too much pressure and I think there’s so much making fun of penises in sort of instead of appreciating and you know more, some people are into penis idolization. But I do think if you have a really big penis and you’ve been. Perhaps reduced to your penis as what makes you a good lover or a good partner or hot.

[00:33:20] Jess O’Reilly: And I think about how that ties into identity, whether it be race or sexual orientation and how

[00:33:25] Carli DeVille: Right.

[00:33:26] Jess O’Reilly: Harmful that can be to be reduced to that. I could see how subverting that might be.

[00:33:31] Carli DeVille: Right, right, right.

[00:33:32] Jess O’Reilly: Fun and pleasurable and highly erotic and powerful. Right. To take that back. Mm-hmm. So whether you have a small penis or a big penis or an average penis, I think that there’s power in, in subverting the script, right?

[00:33:44] Jess O’Reilly: If you’ve been made to feel badly about your penis, and I think so many people do feel badly about their penis, whether they’re small, medium, larger,

[00:33:50] Carli DeVille: right? Yeah.

[00:33:51] Jess O’Reilly: All the other sizes on, on either side, right? So yeah, really interesting. And so the name of that dominatrix for folks who are looking for small penis [00:34:00] humiliation is.

[00:34:00] Carli DeVille: A chastity, queen

[00:34:02] Jess O’Reilly: cha, queen, Chast, chastity queen. Okay. I will add that to the show notes as well. Yeah,

[00:34:06] Carli DeVille: and for all you like out there whose partner has maybe shared their interest in small penis humiliation and you just can’t wrap your head around it. I will say this. Like just try to have fun with it.

[00:34:18] Carli DeVille: You know? It’s supposed to be a fun experience when you’re like quote unquote making fun of it, you know, it’s consensual. So it goes against what you’ve probably been taught your whole life, right, of like never make your partner feel insecure, especially about their genitals. And now there’s someone saying like, Go ahead.

[00:34:36] Carli DeVille: You know, make fun of it. Look, it’s so tiny, it’s so useless, and you’re just like, no, I don’t wanna cause you pain. But just wrap your mind around the fact that you’re not causing pain, you’re causing pleasure, and the real pain that you’re causing is by not making fun of that small penis. You know?

[00:34:52] Jess O’Reilly: Right, right. Absolutely.

[00:34:53] Carli DeVille: Give ’em a favor and make one of that little penis.

[00:34:55] Jess O’Reilly: If they ask you to. If they ask you to. Yeah. Right, right. If they’re into it. I love this conversation. I’m excited to check out your book, Naty, Alicia, and send people to your to listen to your sex podcast as well. Same name, Naty. Alicia, thank you so much for being with us. Carli .

[00:35:11] Carli DeVille: Thank you guys. I always have so much fun with you.

[00:35:14] Jess O’Reilly: I love this conversation. And before we go, I just wanna mention, because we recently. Got off the Desire cruise. We, I was gonna say, got off on the Desire Cruise. We got off the Desire cruise, and there’s another Desire Cruise coming up and everybody’s asking about these couples only clothing optional cruises.

[00:35:32] Jess O’Reilly: So the next one is the Desire Greek Islands Cruise coming up August 26th of this year starts in Athens and then goes to some really cool stops Vlo. The Kavalla Hui, which is actually in Turkey. And it’s my f. Favorite stop cuz you can go to Ephesus and see the archeological ruins, which honestly are mind blowing and just the food, the culture, the people in Turkey.

[00:35:53] Jess O’Reilly: I love it. Then you head to Kuo and Disembark in Athens. So if anyone is interested, desires running promo right now, there’s [00:36:00] a free a hundred dollars onboard credit for their club brand estate rooms. And just the cruises. It’s really beautiful. It’s on the Asara and it includes, you know, premium beverages.

[00:36:10] Jess O’Reilly: There’s five different gourmet dining facilities. Gratuities are included. It’s 24 hour room service. They’ve got theme pool parties, sensual theme nights, and of course I will be teaching some. Really fun and sexy workshops board as well. So I will, it’s kind of hard to find their website because it’s desire.experience.com.

[00:36:30] Jess O’Reilly: So I will link that in my Instagram and in the show notes. So if you’re interested in learning more about the desire crews, let me know. And if you have any questions, uh, you can shoot them my way as well. Thanks again for chatting, and thanks babe. Thank you. Bye bye, folks, wherever you’re at, have a great one.

[00:36:45] Jess O’Reilly: You’re listening to The Sex with Dr. Jess podcast. Improve your sex life, improve your life.