39. Church Finances, Testing Apostles, and the Gap between Claim and Results

In this episode, Brendon and Skyler discuss the thirty-ninth lesson in the LDS Come, Follow Me sunday school manual. This week (September 18-24) is titled “God Loveth a Cheerful Giver” and covers 2 Corinthians 8-13. 

We invite you to worship with us on any Sunday - either at First Baptist Church of Provo or Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna. We welcome visitors!  

Pastor Brendon's Colossians series can be found here and/or here. 

Correction: Skyler overstated a point on "tithing settlement" meetings. The main point is surely for the LDS to be in the position of being able to demonstrate that one has been a faithful and *full* tithe payer, if need be. In some cases Sky had heard about, this has included actually demonstrating it. However, in the manual - what is standard is more of the "honor system", in terms of what is declared as the correct amount to tithe, on the part of the church member. The General Manual can be found here. Keep in mind that not only is being a full tithe-payer a requirement for temple worthiness and attendance, but that has been coupled with dire warnings of not obeying this command. An obvious example would be LDS apostle Bruce R. McConkie's entry in Mormon Doctrine on tithing wherein he not only includes a warning (citing D&C 64) that "he that is tithed shall not be burned" at the Second Coming, but that "[b]y this principle it shall be known who is for the kingdom of God and who is against it" (citing President/prophet Joseph F. Smith). It is sometimes a real phenomenon, however bizarre it may sound, that among some members who are basically inactive (even unworthy) in the church, they still sometimes continue to pay tithing to the LDS church.

Note: We mentioned President Lorenzo Snow in this episode. Keep in mind, he was not only the brother-in-law to Joseph Smith by one of Smith’s plural wives – but is credited with the famous Mormon maxim (really, “the core belief of LDS”): “As man now is, God once was; As God now is, man may be.” 

Seminary Manual: here, here, and here 

• I wish we had had more time to cover their coverage of 1 Cor. 13 – but the audio clip we shared was the actual quotation that they include in the lesson under the question: Are prophets infallibe? The source is called “Prophets”, and was the keynote address during the 2021 BYU Women’s Conference, given July 13,2021 by Sheri Dew. Notice the misquote in the manual. Also notice the weaponized ambiguity when it comes to the distinction between honest questions and “criticizing” the leadership of the LDS church. 

Mormon 1.13; Mormon 9. 15-19; Moroni 10; 3 Nephi 27.13-21; D&C 46.8; D&C 64. 23-25; D&C 82.10; D&C 88.21-22; D&C 105.5; D&C 119; D&C 129; D&C 130.20-21 

“It Works Wonderfully!”; “Waiting on the Road to Damascus” (Dieter F. Uchtdorf) 

“Christ Is Risen; Faith in Him Will Move Mountains” (Russell Nelson) 

“The Power of Sustaining Faith” (Henry Eyring); Note his inclusion of a quote by George Q. Cannon. 

Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 203-207, 214, 270-271, 301, 304-305 

• Smith also stated: “As Paul boasted, I have suffered more than Paul did. I should be like a fish out of water if I were out of persecutions. Perhaps my brethren think it requires all this to keep me humble. The Lord has constituted me so curiously that I glory in persecution. I am not nearly so humble as if I were not persecuted.” (WJS, p. 202) 

LDS General Handbook, underneath the over-arching Section: “God’s Plan and Your Role in His Work of Salvation and Exaltation”- and right after the subsection “Living the Gospel of Jesus Christ” - there is 1.2.2. Caring for Those in Need; also see 34. Finances and Audits 

“Tithing”; “Fasting and Fast Offerings” 

The New Testament Made Easier by David Ridges; 

• One comment from Ridges we weren’t able to include was his comment on 11.1-4 where he states: “We ‘marry’ ourselves to Him, by making and keeping gospel covenants, and thus ensure that we will be with Him in celestial exaltation forever.” 

Understanding Paul by Richard Lloyd Anderson 

“Our Divine Constitution”; “Constitution: A Heavenly Banner” (Ezra Taft Benson 

• This should be understood more clearly as part of Benson’s very public denunciation of government-welfare programs, a detail not mentioned (let alone interacted with) in the manual. See, e.g. Benson’s Proper Role of Government and The Red Carpet 
• See Ezra Taft Benson and the Making of the Mormon Right by Matthew Harris 

Statements of the LDS First Presidency (compiled by Gary Bergera), e.g.: "Fasting is a form of self denial for self mastery. It is a physical sacrifice for spiritual blessing. All Saints should be urged to observe the fast day and enjoy the blessings to be derived thereby. In general, fasting means abstaining from two consecutive meals and taking neither food nor drink into the body." (Helps and Suggestions, 1956, p.159)

A Rational Theology by John A. Widtsoe 

 

Brigham Young: JD 12.115-116; 9.149-150 

Heber C. Kimball: JD 4.294 

Franklin D. Richards: JD 26.299 

 

It’s hard to compare Jesus’ teachings on wealth and the rich with this – allegedly coming from the one true and living church of Jesus Christ. 

Financial stuff, e.g.: here, here , here and here 

Numbers, in general, e.g.: here, here, here 

Mormonism and the Magic Worldview; The Mormon Hierarchy: Wealth and Corporate Power by D. Michael Quinn 

The Mormon Jesus by John Turner 

Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? by Sandra and Jerald Tanner 

Going Clear; see also the book Going Clear by Lawrence Wright 

Justin Peters’ plea to Kenneth Copeland 

 

American Awakening by Joshua Mitchell 

American Gospel: Christ Crucified 

What is the Gospel? (Voddie Baucham) 

What Is Faith?; Christianity and Liberalism by J. Gresham Machen 

2 Corinthians (NIV Application Commentary) by Scott Hafemann 

 

“An Earnest Plea to LDS”; “An Earnest Plea to Charismatics” (Jason Wallace) 

The Gospel According to John; How Long, O Lord? Reflections on Evil and Suffering; The Difficult Doctrine of the Love of God by D.A. Carson (and here) 

Core Christianity; Christless Christianity; Recovering Our Sanity by Michael Horton (also here and here) 

“’For Whenever I am Weak, Then I Am Strong’: Disability in Paul’s Epistles” by Martin Albl (Found in This Abled Body: Rethinking Disabilities in Biblical Studies, ed. By Hector Avalos, et al.) 

 

Francis of Assisi and His World by Mark Galli (also here and here) 

Religion and the Rise of Christianity by Benjamin Friedman 

Property and Riches in Early Christianity by Martin Hengel 

The Rise of Christianity; The Victory of Reason by Rodney Stark 

Poverty in the Theology of John Calvin by Bonnie Pattison 

Politically Incorrect Guide to Western Civilization by Anthony Esolen 

On the Road with Saint Augustine by James K.A. Smith