2 – Ukraine and Germany: Victory, Belonging & the Future

This episode centers around Ukraine – the importance of its victory in Russia’s war, and its future in Europe and the wider Western democratic alliance. We talk with our expert guests about how failing to aim for Ukrainian victory has conditioned piece-meal support from Germany, undermining its credibility and hurting both Ukrainian and wider western interests.

German public opinion often runs ahead of political decision-making, which creates opportunities for leadership but, noting how far Germany has come since February 2022, we discuss how far it still has to go to get to a position that genuinely serves its interests and those of its allies and partners. We put this in the context of German strategic culture and the uses that are made of the country’s history. And we show how all of this relates to Ukraine’s victory but also its struggle to assert its belonging.

Guests:

• Jessica Berlin, Security and Geopolitics expert (@berlin_bridge)
• Olena Halushka, Co-Founder, International Centre for Ukrainian Victory (@OlenaHalushka)
• Mattia Nelles, Co-Director, German-Ukrainian Bureau & former Foreign Policy Advisor for MdB Robin Wagener (@mattia_n)
• Richard Teltschik, Senior Foreign & Security Policy Advisor for MdB Knut Abraham (@RicoTeltschik)

Articles mentioned in the show & useful further readings:

• Why Ukraine should get an invitation to NATO, Alyona Getmanchuk & Olena Halushka, Politico
• Who’s afraid of (Ukrainian) victory?, Benjamin Tallis and Julian Stöckle, IPQ
• Security Guarantees for Ukraine, Benjamin Tallis, DGAP
• Nato’s future must be global, Jessica Berlin, CEPA
• Germans want their government to do more for Ukraine, Aaron Gasch Burnett, Open Canada
• Germany learns to be a team player, Benjamin Tallis, Politico
• International Center for Ukrainian Victory
• Ukraine doesn’t need half measures from the EU, Benjamin Tallis, FP
• Drop the excuses and embrace Ukraine, Benjamin Tallis, Council on Geostrategy
• Der Aufbau der ukrainischen Zukunft beginnt jetzt, Anton Hofreiter, MdB & Roderich Kiesewetter MdB, FAZ (In German)
• Foreign Affairs Committee Chiefs Call for Ukraine in NATO

This podcast is an original production of the German Council on Foreign Relations (DGAP). It was created as part of DGAP's Action Group Zeitenwende.

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Aaron Gasch Burnett

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