392. Mastering the Art of Influence feat. Zoe Chance

Unlock the secrets to commanding any room with the power of influence and persuasion. Imagine ascending the corporate ladder with ease, your words leading the way—this episode will get you started.

Zoe Chance is formerly a creative force behind the Barbie brand at Mattel, currently teaching at the Yale School of Management, and author of the book Influence Is Your Superpower: How to Get What You What Without Compromising Who You Are.

Zoe and Greg discuss why finesse in influence is not just for marketers but a universal key to professional success across a wide range of jobs including teaching and education. Zoe explores the power behind the art of saying no, a skill that builds resilience and carves out space for personal growth, and the counterintuitive truth that a well-placed no can magnetically lead to more affirmative responses. 

They talk about the cultural conditioning that shackles us to a relentless cycle of yeses, and Zoe gives some techniques that allow the softer voices to echo through boardrooms and beyond. Find out also how to use the ‘Kindly Brontosaurus’ to get what you really want.

*unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*

Episode Quotes:

Why paternalism and materialism work well with behavioral economics

53:39: Behavioral economics allows freedom of choice, and still, it nudges or encourages people towards certain outcomes. And the reason that paternalism or maternalism works well with behavioral economics is that if people feel that you are nudging them in a direction that's consistent with their best interests, they tend to not mind the nudging and the influence that you were doing. If they feel that you are trying to manipulate them to do something in your best interest but not theirs, then there can be tremendous backlash. So, this maternalism, paternalism piece is important. And when somebody feels that you're trying to influence them to do something that they don't feel bad about the possibility of doing, and it's not you just being this selfish, manipulative person, it feels pretty good on both sides. So, I like influence that feels good on both sides.

The magic of “no”

13:36: The magic of "no" is that when we're more comfortable saying no to other people, we're more comfortable with them saying no to us. And that means that our requests lose this edge of neediness that can be repulsive. So, practicing saying no leads indirectly to other people wanting to say yes to you.

The concept of “behavioral introversion”

26:56: There is the "what we do" and the "who we are" piece of introversion, extroversion. So the behavior and the traits, and we're probably not going to do anything about our traits, at least not in the short run. And we have a bit of control over our behavior. And then, as teachers or leaders in environments where we have a wide range of introverts and extroverts, we may not be thinking about how there are people who are extroverted in some contexts that show up as introverts in the domain in which we see them.

Influence is part of the job

04:19: Influencing other people, for most people in most jobs, is a huge part of our job. And it's definitely a bigger part of our job as we rise in an organization and levels of increasing responsibility. And I used to think that if you're the boss, you just get to tell people what to do, and they're going to do it. We know it's totally not like that, becoming less, but I think it has probably always been not that effective.

Show Links:

Recommended Resources:

• John G. Lynch
• Susan Cain
• The Kindly Brontosaurus
• Bernard Roth
• Libertarian paternalism
• Competent Jerks, Lovable Fools, and the Formation of Social Networks
• 350.org

Guest Profile:

• ZoeChance.com
• Faculty Profile at Yale School of Management
• LinkedIn Profile
• Profile on X
• Profile on Psychology Today

Her Work:

• Influence Is Your Superpower: How to Get What You What Without Compromising Who You Are