SFR 68: B2B Funnels?! Special Interview with James Smiley...

James is not only one of the most well connected individuals I've ever met, he's also got his B2B funnel totally dialed in...

Steve Larsen:

What's going on, everyone? This is Steve Larsen and you're listening to a very special and frankly quite unique episode of Sales Funnel Radio.

Speaker:

Welcome to Sales Funnel Radio, where you'll learn marketing strategies to grow your online business using today's best internet sales funnels, and now, here's your host, Steve Larsen.

Steve Larsen:

All right, you guys. Hey, I'm super excited to welcome you and our special guest today to the show. This is an episode I've never quite done before, and frankly, it's an area that I personally am still learning about sales funnels and I'm really excited to have him here with us today and I think part the curtain, let the veil down, so to speak. Very, very pumped to learn from him.

Guys, please help me welcome Mr. James Smiley. How you doing?

James Smiley:

What's going on, Steve?

Steve Larsen:

Living the dream, man.

James Smiley:

Woohoo.

Steve Larsen:

Living the dream.

James Smiley:

Thanks so much. This is going to be awesome.

Steve Larsen:

I'm excited that you're here. Just for everyone else, the first time I ever met James, my life is run off of an app Voxer, and pretty much my life, Russell's life, all of our lives, we live on this app of Voxer, and that's how we talk. I don't think I've ever called Russell on the phone ever. I don't know his number, you know what I mean? We all live on Voxer and I get Voxed a lot, from just lots of people. Sometimes it's about me creating new barriers just so I can have my own headspace, you know? But then also there was this guy who kept asking, he's like, "Hey, do you want" ... From these really big and really popular companies, "Will you build a funnel for these guys?" "Hey, what if you built a funnel for these guys?"

They were these huge companies, massive, massive, some of them billion dollar companies, and I was like, "Who is this guy? How is he" ... Number one, "Who is this?" Number two, "That would be cool, but how are you getting these leads? How do you find? That's insane." We have a lot of our own certification partners, ClickFunnels.

I have my own clients I've built for, but man, the people that you were talking about, I was like, I mean, "This is insane." Anyway, I don't know if I'm allowed to say any of the names, so that's the reason I'm not, but man, I just got to ask, how do you get into something like B2B funnel building?

James Smiley:

Yeah, no, thanks, Steve. Super excited to be here hanging out with you guys, and I'll just start by saying massive, massive ClickFunnels fan. Being following you guys since before ClickFunnels. I was actually working at-

Steve Larsen:

Oh, really?

James Smiley:

Yeah. I was following Russell from some research that we were doing at a big company that I was consulting with, and we were trying to figure out how big was this internet marketing thing going to be and content ... It was really content and where was content going.

It was really cool. It's just been awesome to see everything that's happened and been a massive consumer of everything that you guys do, so thanks for everything you guys are doing.

I guess to directly share how can somebody go from being an internet marketer or running an agency, or whatever they do now into getting B2B clients, I think one of the things I try to share with people is you've got to get face to face with these kind of people...

I think your chances go up exponentially if you can get face to face with them. One of the things that I've been doing and having a lot of success in the past couple years is running a webinar, mini webinar type of system where you could be running a lead or you could be running a lead ad or a Facebook ad or something, and running that into a small auto-webinar kind of scenario.

Believe it or not, even removing the login aspect, we've seen a lot of success. We've gotten a tremendous amount of appointments by sending a LinkedIn ad or a YouTube ad directly to a website, to a ClickFunnels page, where it's auto playing myself or one of our sales reps or whatnot, and then from there, they can just click to book, to book a meeting.

Steve Larsen:

And that's the main goal? You don't do anything else besides that's just the main goal, the interaction from?

James Smiley:

Yeah. Something that I've used for a long time, I actually learned this I want to say it was like in 2004 or 5, at a Chet Holmes event. Chet Holmes, Tony Robbins event. I think it was called Ultimate Business Mastery a long time ago.

Steve Larsen:

Sure.

James Smiley:

But I learned about the ideal thing to do is to try to broaden and generalize more your message and really hit on something that's new, cutting edge, innovative. Chet taught us year ago to do things like an executive report or an executive summary, and nowadays with technology, it's pretty easy to come up with something innovative.

You can look up online really innovative videos and blogs, and what are the trends in such and such technology. And then essentially what we're doing is we're saying, we're running an ad saying, "Mr. or Mrs. executive. Are you prepared for the 2020 blah blah blah revolution?"

Or, "Are you prepared for this and this? Join a three minute webinar," whatever you want to call it, "And let me explain it to you." The person there explaining it is my sales rep.

Steve Larsen:

Interesting.

James Smiley:

Yeah, and then at the end he or she is saying, "Well, I'd love to follow-up with you. I'd love to give you this $600,000 of research that we've done" or whatever that number is, "Book an appointment right now and I can give you this guide, I can hand you this guide," or whatever. We would always try to get face to face with them if we can.

Steve Larsen:

So do you run these local just to where you are mostly? Or I mean, you're getting on a plane? You're flying out to them a lot?

James Smiley:

Yeah. I think it really depends on what kind of business you're running. When I worked for much larger companies, our territory was across the nation, but in more of an agency model I've helped some internet marketers in the space, it's easy to set up a local roadshow or those kind of things through your town or through your city, where you can go and present some information.

Really hot things I would think would be for your guys' audience maybe like where is Facebook going to take business in the next three years? And, are the companies in your area prepared for that?

You can run a local ad saying, "Hey, I'm booking nine meetings" or, "Six meetings and this is a local tour that we're doing and it's a $3000 event and I'll do it for free, and I'll come to your office, but here's the deal. Number one, the owner has to be there, and then number two, you have to give me X amount of time," or something like that.

You put some stipulations on it, but if you can get in front of them, your chances are going to go tremendously. Utilizing the web system and the web tools and the web automation that you guys have set up, and I really like Russell's two step follow-up process that you guys use. I believe for like high ticket sales and stuff.

We use a very similar approach. I would say a lot of the times it's one person versus two, but the psychology's actually exactly the same as a two step, so that might help people when they get on the phone with somebody, knowing what to do and where to take it next, but yeah.

Steve Larsen:

That's amazing. That's really cool. I mean, we're always ... Go ahead.

James Smiley:

I've done this with as big as companies that are in the government all the way down to when I ... I think I was one of Dan Henry's first 50 or 60 students.

Steve Larsen:

Sure.

James Smiley:

When I buy even a course like that, I'll just go implement it right away. I want to know, I want to know everything in the first 10 days or so, so I went out and booked a ton of small appointments and went out there and did it. The same process works whether you're going after a chiropractor or whether you're going after a Fortune 2000 or somebody in the government.

Steve Larsen:

That's amazing. Because this kind of approach, I mean, the core of what we usually teach is usually, "Hey, let's do a free plus shipping offer. Here's this little $7 thing." That's not really the same approach you're going to use when you go to B2B, but the same principles certainly apply of sales.

This is cool...

I've never seen this before, that's awesome. I want to ask more about you personally, right after this too, but you're saying funnel wise ... Go ahead.

James Smiley:

You're right. Like, the psychology is the same, which is when I read the DotCom Secrets book, I was like, "This is right on." Even in my industry, I was like, "I don't know if you guys fully understand like how big it is in my industry." I mean, it's huge.

Steve Larsen:

It's massive, dude. I read it when I was laying out, holding my M16 out there and I was reading this thing and I was like, "This is changing everything" and all these startups were like, "Shut up Larsen." I was like, "No, I don't think you get it. This book's amazing." Sorry. Just a little testimonial there.

James Smiley:

And I would say the comprehensiveness of that, I mean it's just scripted out for you. It's the most complete book I've ever seen on this kind of stuff. The other thing I was going to inject, too, Steve, is a lot of people say, "Okay, I can get that meeting. What do I sell them? What do companies want? What are the sweet spots?" I'll share some of the things that we're doing and seen a lot of success with, so we're seeing a lot of success with companies that are five million to about 15 million.

Steve Larsen:

That's the sweet spot for you, right? With this funnel.

James Smiley:

It's a sweet spot that it's almost downmarket from where I usually play. I usually play in the 10 to 100 million dollar client range, but I've found the ease of getting into clients that are between five and 15 million is unbelievable. If you look at how many businesses in the last three to five years have gotten into that four, five, six, seven million dollar range, it's astronomical.

The small and medium sized business has exploded and so most of these owners have gotten there because of some innovation, some relationship they built, some partnerships, some new technology or new industry that came out, and they almost, when you get with them, they almost don't fully understand how they got there. But they're just happy they did, right? Which anybody would be, and so-

Steve Larsen:

So like the people that have like, they've figured out enough stuff to get that far but they're ... That's kind of an interesting filter, though, as far as cool clients to have. That's interesting.

James Smiley:

Yeah. The beauty of these people, these companies, is number one they have money. Number two, they reach a plateau where their main goal of the executive staff, the CFO, these people, is they're just trying to maintain revenue and herd the cats.

Steve Larsen:

Sure.

James Smiley:

They don't want revenue drop off, right? I mean, it's a generalization, but I can tell you through Gartner and Forrester and all these market research firms that I've been fortunate enough to see what the data is, these companies that are in this small and medium sized world, they have no real focus on sales anymore because they're just trying to maintain the revenue that they just ramped up in the last one to five years.

Steve Larsen:

Interesting.

James Smiley:

So you come in, right? Or any of your followers who have an agency or whatever, and the great questions to ask them is, "How does your pipeline look? How does your sales funnel look? What's your cost per acquisition? What's your cost per lead?" It's astonishing. I would say over 9 out of 10, almost 95% of the time they will not know how to answer that.

Steve Larsen:

Wow.

James Smiley:

You talk to a 10 million dollar company, they don't know what their cost to acquire a customer is, what their cost per lead is.

Steve Larsen:

Wow. Truly is an accident then, which makes you the hero. That's awesome.

James Smiley:

Yeah, so you come in with that angle and then it's funny, like the main thing we lead with is funnels, right? It's the main thing we lead in. We say, "Are you getting leads online? Are you using online automation? Are you using social media?" 9 out of 10 times, maybe more than that, they're going to say, "No, not really but we've heard about it" or, "We're thinking it."

Steve Larsen:

"We posted on Facebook once. We have a page we don't do anything with."

James Smiley:

Yeah, like one of my clients is a big company in California. They're a top tech company, and they were telling me that when I asked them these questions they said, "Well, we have a marketing agency that did our website and then a year ago they said, 'Hey, do you want us to run Facebook ads?'" This is very typical, right? Marketing company-

Steve Larsen:

Sure.

James Smiley:

... they know branding, they don't really know leads, sales, or want to be responsible or on the hook for sales, but they know branding, they know the four Ps of marketing, all that stuff, right?

Steve Larsen:

Yeah.

James Smiley:

They watch an Etsy video or YouTube, or took a class, and now they're Facebook ad experts. Here I come into a client, they're spending 5 to $6000 a month on Facebook ads, and all the agency is doing is boosting their posts.

Steve Larsen:

Like, with no other strategy.

James Smiley:

I could not believe that. I was like, "You're paying this company thousands of dollars, plus you're earning five grand of your own money, and all they're doing is boosting your post? That's not even an ad. That's not like a real ad."

Steve Larsen:

No. I could do that, and I don't even know Facebook very well. That's easy.

James Smiley:

Yeah. They had done this full fledge for about three months.

Steve Larsen:

Wow.

James Smiley:

They ramped into it and then they said, "We're all in, five grand a month." I said, "How many sales have you ever made in those three months?" They said, "Zero." I said, "So you've spent over $15,000 in ads and you don't have one trackable sale?" He said, "Yeah." He said, "Can you help us with that?" It's like, once you get in the door, you'd be surprised how many of these big companies are disorganized in that area and they're looking for somebody to help them.

Steve Larsen:

That's so cool. That's so cool. I mean, right before this we were chatting, and you were talking about, "Hey." I mean, there's this process you go through while you're with them. Do you mind taking us through that, like the outline you have in your head?

James Smiley:

Yeah. One of the things that I'll train people on is when you're in a meeting, when you get face to face with somebody, there's really three things that you need to know before you close, okay? Here's one thing about closing is if a sale is moving too fast and it's a big sale, something is drastically wrong, okay?

Steve Larsen:

Which is such the opposite thing you want to know and here.

James Smiley:

It's almost like the opposite of true internet marketing, where it's like you want speed, you want traction, right? With these big companies, very few times does one person make the decision. Nobody really wants to be on the hook if there's a downside, but everybody wants to wave the flag if there's an upside. When you're coming in, you have to understand that there's going to be ... B2B is more of a chess match and you have to understand how the chess match is played and why people want you in there.

Believe it or not, the bigger the company, it's not always about revenue and it's not always about sales...

It's usually about the bigger the company, and I'm just saying this so people understand, that most of the time the motivation, the influential factor is going to be somebody wants a promotion, somebody wants to look good, something like that.

Steve Larsen:

Just to follow-up with that real quick, what's your strategy to make sure you're actually pitching the decision maker, you know what I mean? Because otherwise, I could see you literally pitching everybody, you know what I mean?

James Smiley:

Yeah. One of the things that I do when we're warming up leads and booking meetings is so number one, we're trying to get a face to face meeting. Number two, if we're going to do an onsite seminar or something like that, we require the business, the decision maker to be there, or we'll say, "Or we'll charge you."

Steve Larsen:

Interesting.

James Smiley:

The decision maker has to be there or we'll send you an invoice, and they have to stay the whole time. If you don't set those parameters, 80% of the time you're going to get some marketing manager who's just basically stealing your ideas and going to go tell the boss that now they're smarter. You've got to get the decision maker there when you're presenting and being the guru.

Steve Larsen:

And you're presenting in their office, with them, as like a roadshow, part of your funnel basically?

James Smiley:

Yeah, that's been a big thing that we've done the past five, six, seven years. I've done it at a number of different companies, big companies, small startups, all those kind of things, and for my own agency, and it's worked really well. If you can't get into meetings, the next best thing, something that and I'll just throw this out there for your audience as well, just like a backend hack that we're using, is something that works really, really well is to set up your own Meetup.com or network with somebody who runs a Meetup.com.

Say, "Hey, I'm an XYZ expert." "I'm a Facebook ad expert," "I'm an online automation expert," and say, "I do this seminar and we've done it, the value of it is thousands of dollars, but I'll do it for your people for free if you can get 10 people or 20 people in the room."

Then, so you can use Facebook, you can use all the little event invites apps to get people there. You can use Meetup.com. For a while, we ran our own Meetup.com here when we we're just getting established in Dallas. Here's the thing about B2B that's different, is you only need like one or two or three really good people in the room to make a six figure income.

Steve Larsen:

Yeah. That's ... Wow, yeah.

James Smiley:

Yeah. One of the most profitable meetings in the past, or really this year that I did, was with one person. This person was a big business owner, big time networker, multimillionaire, and it was just to him, and I talked to him and wrote all over his whiteboard for an hour and a half, and then he referred me to my biggest client this year, which I mean, getting a five and six figure deal is pretty common in the B2B space.

Steve Larsen:

Sure, which is just crazy for so many people who are just starting this game. Like, that blows their mind. "One deal, six figures, what?" But that's the kind of stuff that you kept dropping on my Voxer and I was like, "Who is this guy?"

James Smiley:

Yeah. Really, some of the people that I've been helping is the ideal scenario for somebody like me, is to go there, win that relationship, keep up the corporate relations, and broker out the services on the backend to people. I've got a network of trusted people.

If I need email copy, if I need funnels, if I need Facebook ads, you know what I mean?...

That's an ideal scenario for somebody like me. I would say when you start out, try to do as much as you can so you learn the process inside and out, but it's amazing how much money you can make versus how much time you put in.

I always have people say, they're like, "James, you have four kids, married for 13 years, great marriage, you seem like you" ... I used to be a pro fisherman, pro bass fisherman, so I fish a lot, I have all these fishing pictures, I run an info product for fishing.

Steve Larsen:

Wow.

James Smiley:

They're like, "How do you do all this stuff? You have this huge business, and you're speaking at these conferences and stuff." I'm like, it's the B2B space that I play in where I only need less than a handful of clients at a time, and they're going to more than take care of me.

I would say something that's really important and I don't want to be one of those people to paint a false reality here. You've got to know how to fire your own client when you're in this game.

Steve Larsen:

Do you do it a lot?

James Smiley:

I would say I turn down about 50% of the people who say they want to work with me.

Steve Larsen:

That makes me feel better because I fire a lot of people. Fire your own customer, yeah, okay.

James Smiley:

Yeah, it might even be more. Whereas, if I feel like I'm going to get into something and as soon as something goes wrong they're going to blame me, like it could be anything, something in marketing, revenue, CFO doesn't ... Whatever. I'm out of there, you know?

Steve Larsen:

Totally, yeah. There was a guy, like just recently, and he ran up to me and he's like, "Hey."

He's offering me 50-100 grand for me to build a funnel and I was like, "Hey, that's really cool" and it was like a drop in the hat, really easy one that I knew it'd like double sales and all this stuff, but it was simply because ... I said no to him just because I didn't think we'd get along. That sounds ludicrous to people but I don't want to get into this relationship with someone where it's like just hell the whole way, you know?

James Smiley:

Yeah.

Steve Larsen:

It's like, "Oh." Yeah, anyway.

James Smiley:

Yeah. I mean-

Steve Larsen:

The key is firing more than hiring almost, you know? Just be really picky with those high end ones. That's the biggest thing, [inaudible 00:23:48].

James Smiley:

Yeah. Something to piggyback off that, Steve, is you want to make sure you're set up as a corporate entity, a minimum of an LLC. Because you're dealing with big clients and they have lawyers, so-

Steve Larsen:

Got you.

James Smiley:

I mean, I've been able to navigate the waters and stay out of any of that, but this is not like working with a three-man show down at the local strip mall area, you know what I mean?

Steve Larsen:

Sure, yeah.

James Smiley:

If something goes wrong, the CFO's not going to take the heat. He's going to shift it to somebody else, and so you just need to be prepared for that.

Make sure that you don't get into those type of relationships on the frontend, that's the best thing you can do to protect yourself.

Steve Larsen:

Right, that's interesting. I mean, when you first got started doing this, I'm sure you had your own legal documents and all this stuff. I mean, did you spend a lot ... Probably more time obviously than the average person, just setting up the legal aspects of it?

James Smiley:

Yeah. I hired a coach to make sure I did everything right.

Steve Larsen:

Oh, cool.

James Smiley:

I'm big into coaching, have always been, and so yeah, I hired somebody just to make sure that I had all that buttoned up. It's not as complicated as I thought, but I'd rather be safe than sorry on that end.

Steve Larsen:

Sure.

James Smiley:

A lot of these companies, they're legacy business models and legacy leadership styles. They're not going to be all about handshake deals a lot, so you're going to need decent contracts and things like that. Out clauses. You don't ever want to get stuck to where you can't get out. You always want there to be a way for you to step out without any repercussion. That's a big thing, yeah.

Steve Larsen:

You've gone through and you ... I mean, you showed me how you got the leads. Totally genius funnel, and Meetup.com, ah, I wonder why I've never thought of that before. Like, people go to those.

James Smiley:

crosstalk...

Steve Larsen:

Like, that's such a, that's perfect for that industry. Anyway.

James Smiley:

Yeah. We've ran them, like digital marketing ones, like 5-10 people would show up the first meeting. We ran technology ones, you'll get a ton of people. Meetup.com, there's people there. Once you schedule that, you can rally all your social media channels and get more people there, but yeah, I mean we've ... Let me give people a hack on how where to have this meeting, right?

You don't want to have it home or something, and you may not have a place of business. The best places I've found is number one, a really nice local library.

Steve Larsen:

Really?

James Smiley:

Yeah. Like, I'm here in Frisco, Texas, just a local library. There's a great meeting space, projectors, all that stuff, and it's free. As long as you're a card carrying member of the library.

Steve Larsen:

Which takes like five seconds.

James Smiley:

That's right.

Steve Larsen:

Yeah...

James Smiley:

It's funny, this lady actually asked me, "Are you a card carrying member?" I'm like, "Um, that sounds like a little bit more than" ... A card carrying member of the library.

Steve Larsen:

"Where's the bouncer?"

James Smiley:

The other really cool place is the Microsoft stores, if you have a Microsoft store in your town or city. They usually have a business center that's attached to it, and you can go in there, and as long as you're not ... I hate to say this, but as long as you're not bringing an Apple computer, and a Windows computer, there are hookups and everything, and just-

Steve Larsen:

Wow.

James Smiley:

... A really cool free innovative space. You just call down there and say, "Hey, I want to book a business meeting." They love it because a bunch of business executives are going to come and be around their technology, so they'll let you come in for free. That's two easy places to have it. The third one is I'll ask somebody, a company, if they want to sponsor the location.

That actually works really well, because you'll usually have somebody who wants to show off or maybe wants to create opportunity for themselves, so they'll host it in their own building.

Steve Larsen:

Wow.

James Smiley:

That's the third way we've done it and it works out really well.

Steve Larsen:

Do you end up selling a lot of times the sponsor on your services? I can imagine that they'd get interested, too. That's [crosstalk 00:28:07].

James Smiley:

We will sell everybody in the meeting. We'll sell to everybody, yeah.

Steve Larsen:

Do you mind going into how you run the meeting itself? Like, what do you do in there? "Hey guys, want to build a funnel?"

James Smiley:

Yeah. Surprisingly when I first downloaded Webinar Secrets and all these online methodologies, it's actually very similar.

Steve Larsen:

I thought so. I was wondering if it was ... Okay, yeah. Nevermind, go on.

James Smiley:

Yeah. That's why the more that I've unraveled all the things that you guys are putting out, number one I've personally spent over $10,000 on your guys' stuff. I mean, Steal Your Funnel, Let The Show, everything. Your guys' stuff has been rock solid and I actually consume it, right?

Steve Larsen:

Sure.

James Smiley:

As I've been consuming it, I'm like, "This is so unbelievably productive in my area." Like, you could actually take the content of some of these things and just say, "Hey, B2B, fill your funnel. B2B, sales presentations." It would open up the doors tremendously.

Steve Larsen:

That's all I did in that first info product, actually. I was in college, I read DotCom Secrets, I was obsessed with it, and I held a three hour meeting in a stranger's home with tons of people and I recorded it. It was the same content. They were like, "Brilliant."

James Smiley:

Yeah. It's amazing, like one of the biggest things that people are going to need when they're starting out is they're going to need credibility. Usually people will give you a shot, you can set up one of these meetings in a couple weeks, and actually have it.

Like, in 10 days from now you can have your first meeting and have people there. But you're going to want to make sure you record it, the audio. You can go onto Amazon.com, there's a $20 Bouyer microphone that has a 20 foot extension. You can lapel it up onto yourself, so you can record what you're doing.

Number two, you want to get somebody to take some photos so you have photos. All those kind of things help you build credibility, so as you continue to move forward, you can use those photos, use the recording, all those things as promotional items and those kind of things.

Steve Larsen:

Interesting.

James Smiley:

Yeah, and then once you get into the meeting, the general structure is in the very beginning I will absolutely try to wow with something big. Like, the biggest headline I can come up with, and so in my career, I was able to grow two zero to 20 million dollar businesses, new lines of business, like from nothing to over 20 million.

Steve Larsen:

Oh, my gosh.

James Smiley:

And I did two of those before I was 35.

Steve Larsen:

Holy crap.

James Smiley:

Yeah, so that's usually the line I'll start out with. I'll say, "I'm going to tell you the backend secrets of how I grew two zero to 20 million dollar businesses for two different companies, and how I did it before I was 35, and maybe some of that will be helpful for you guys. Would you guys be onboard if I shared that with you?"

Steve Larsen:

what...

James Smiley:

Yeah, exactly.

Steve Larsen:

Cool.

James Smiley:

That shocks them, and then you go into like the three step process you use is awesome. Then, on the backend, the biggest thing you want to do is push them to one on one meeting. Like, you'll get people just the hot leads are going to walk right up to you, but try to push everybody to a meeting. If you can get 10 people or let's say you only get five people in the room, if you can book half of those people and then close one of them, that could be easily a five figure deal, easily a five figure deal.

Steve Larsen:

Interesting.

James Smiley:

So, yeah, I mean and that's just with five, you know?

Steve Larsen:

Right.

James Smiley:

But it's surprising. When you think of psychology of what we're doing, the more I read the stuff you guys put out, I'm like, "Wow, this just crystallizes what we've been working on." Like, it streamlined everything we've been doing.

Steve Larsen:

That's cool.

James Smiley:

Yeah, it's been really cool.

Steve Larsen:

You just barely touched on, so you go through, use some of the Perfect Webinar script which we ... Russell's always mentioned he regrets that he called it that because it's used way more places than just a webinar.

Then, you're trying to push to a one on one with them which is awesome, booking and closing them. The one part that you kind of mentioned before the call, so I'm like biting at the bit to try ... I want to hear about also, because every single one that you ever talked about with me was like these huge deals with these very well known companies.

I'm just not sure if I'm allowed to say the names so I'm not, but like, "Whoa, that's crazy." How do you structure a five and six figure kind of deal?

James Smiley:

Yeah, good question. I'll just reveal what we do and hopefully that helps your audience. The three things that mentally in my head, when I get to a one on one meeting, whether that's a phone call, but ideally it's face to face, is I'm looking for is there a need? Like, do they really have a need for my results? I'm pushing results, what I've done, and here's a simple hack I've taught new sales reps.

I mean, I had a sales rep come in who was a used car salesman, and at AT&T he ended up being one of the top salesmen in the entire country among 10,000 sales reps and he was a used car salesman.

I've taught them this strategy of if you don't have a true result, just Google a result in that industry for that type of service or technology. There's stories out there, there's blogs, there's videos, and you want to be able to share some type of result. Like, "People who used this, this is the type of result they're getting."

Like if you can't honestly say, "My clients are doing this," or, "Your competitor who works with me is doing this," then at least share something in the industry. It will help you move the conversation forward.

You need them to anchor on a result, and I will keep going back to, "So is that the kind of result that you guys want in your business?" Or, somehow I might say, "What would it do for you guys? I mean, I know you guys have a lot going on, but what it would do if you were able to get that kind of result?

Do you actually think you could handle that amount of leads or would I absolutely swamp you?" Once I can get them to anchor on a result, I'm trying to see like is there really a need with that, right?

Once I've established that, and a lot of times if I don't understand it, I will just ask them. I'll say, "Do you actually need this or do you just think it's cool? Like, do you need that result? Will it actually help your business?"

Stakeholder, board members, VC angel investors, will those guys care or how big is this, right? Number one is need. Number two ... Go ahead.

Steve Larsen:

Yeah, I just wanted to touch on that. Because that's actually a very stark difference between what we do and sounds like B2B funnels. We always tell people what they want. If we try and sell people what they need, most of the time you don't make a lot of money with B2C, you know? In that category. That's interesting.

You specifically go for the ... That makes sense, too. These big companies, they've got a bunch of cash, they're trying to figure out how to plug the holes in. That's probably their mindset anyway, that's fascinating. That's a big difference.

James Smiley:

Yeah no, that's a very good point. I would say one of the things that I've seen a contrast between what the internet marketing world as I understood it and consumed it to be, and B2B, is in B2B there's not as much emotional decisions. People who make emotional decisions do not stay in executive leadership very long. It's like the bigger a company gets, the less agile they get, right?

Steve Larsen:

Sure.

James Smiley:

I ran innovation at AT&T, I did some stuff with Facebook. When you deal with these bigger companies they'll talk about ... I ran an innovation center, but I would always say, "What are we innovating?" You know?

Steve Larsen:

Sure.

James Smiley:

Because when you're a big company, you can't make as many mistakes because when you make a mistake, that could tank your stock price three bucks, which is billions of dollars.

Steve Larsen:

Interesting. They're all walking on eggshells all the time, that's interesting.

James Smiley:

Yeah, so people want sign off, approvals, and all those kind of things, and so it's important to have someone inside the business, ideally the key decision maker, the owner, who's your champion. Very key to have a champion, someone who's willing to champion it internally, in the business, but I would not try to push to one call closes and those kind of things as much, because a lot of times there are influential factors.

Like, if a CEO makes a decision and he spends money on you but then this other part of the business is going under, somebody, like the CFO, the board, whatever, could say, "Well, why did you shift money there versus over on this side?"

There's a lot of factors that take place, and so, although I am absolutely pushing them to make an emotional decision, so I'm actually trying to push on that want feeling more, but I'm presenting it more as a need is maybe the way I would say that.

Steve Larsen:

Oh, that's clever. I love that.

James Smiley:

Number one need, the next thing I'll go to in the meeting is I will ask them directly, "Perfect. I mean, that's cool. I know we can do it. You've got the right person" type of thing, and then I'll say, "So what's your timeline to get this done? When would it be good for you to get this done? When do you want it done?"

Once again, if a sale is moving too fast and they're just skipping over this stuff, something's going to fall on the backend, and you're not going to close the sale. You need to establish a need and get common agreement there. Then, you need to establish and get common agreement on a timeline. They may say, "I need all these results in two weeks." You're running LinkedIn or Facebook ads or whatever and you go, "That ain't happening."

So, you need to understand the timeline, and that's going to set expectations, right? If you can agreement there, the next question I'll ask is the most important, which is about the money. I'll say, "So, you want these results, we've already talked about how you think you can generate $8000 a month more or $8000 a week more," whatever.

Steve Larsen:

Wow.

James Smiley:

"What's your budget to be able to" ... "What are you willing to invest to be able to do that?" I'll tell you, like 90% of the time, somebody's not going to come back and say, "I have $200,000 free cash flow." But you will find out with that question if they don't have a budget. I mean, most of the time, you're going to find out if they don't and that's key, right? Like, if somebody comes back to me and says, "I can probably carve out like 6 to $8000 this year for you," that's not my client, you know?

Steve Larsen:

Sure.

James Smiley:

Although it could be a great relationship for a lot of people, it's not my client.

Steve Larsen:

If they don't have a budget, do you walk then?

James Smiley:

Yes.

Steve Larsen:

That's awesome.

James Smiley:

Yep. I've got a playbook that I'll usually leave with them that during the meeting, I'm kind of like writing a few notes, a few ideas. I'm wowing them with the type of results and if they start asking you, they might start asking you details about, "Well, why are you an expert at this?"

I might go into different ways to create audiences and as I'm telling them hacks and things like that, I'll be writing those down. Then, I end up leaving that behind with them, so it's something nice that we leave behind. But typically, the only three things that I need to know is is there a need? Is there a timeline? Is there a budget?

That goes for whether I'm working with somebody in the government, so whether I'm working with a Fortune 10 or a new startup or an individual.

Steve Larsen:

That's amazing. That's amazing. Holy crap. That's really cool. It's neat to see how you pulling off on their ... I mean, I always tell people, "The customer's not always right, the customer's not always right." Whoever said that phrase was just totally wrong and not in business, or read about it in a book or something. It's call to see you sifting and sorting out people like that.

James Smiley:

Yeah, and there for time, I know we're going to be cutting close here, do you want me to share how to structure the price tag?

Steve Larsen:

That would be awesome, actually. That's a big question I've got for it, as well, yeah.

James Smiley:

Yeah, so I've learned this over the years. When I was in my 20s, I would always screw this up. When I got in my late 20s, early 30s, I just started figuring out, now I feel like I've really crystallized this, so what you want to do, especially if you're an individual consultant or running a small agency, is number one, you're going to probably laugh at how similar this is to what you guys do.

It's actually the same exact psychology, just a little bit different on how you present it. But the first thing I do is I'll say ... So, if I were working at such and such a company ... So, a live example would be when I was at AT&T, I was in what's called the "high-po" program, the high potential executives program, so I was on a fast track to be an executive in the company.

Essentially, around October of this year, I left a couple of years ago, but around October this year there was a high likelihood I would be at a VP or some type of executive or something like that, as long as I was progressing, right?

Steve Larsen:

Sure.

James Smiley:

So what I tell them is, that kind of a job ... So I left that and I say, "Now, that's a 300 to $500,000 a year job." That's kind of where I start, you know? It's really important that when you present that figure of what your true full value is, it's important that they believe it, okay? When I was younger, I used to just zoom by it and I was kind of embarrassed.

Like, if you can't anchor off of that, because that actually becomes your high price tag, where then you start doing a price drop, right? Similar to what all these guys do, what you guys teach.

You want to anchor off of what's your absolute highest value, and be honest. If you're a $80,000 person, say you're 80. If you're a 100, say you're a 100. If you're 50, say you're 50, but so you anchor off that and then so in their mind they're going, "I want that result, but crap, I can't afford that."

Then, the next thing you bridge to is you say, "So not only am I at least a 3 to $500,000 employee, but you look at some of my competitors who offer this service," and trust me, there's always going to be someone who's more pricier than you, than me, right?

So you say, "Some of competitors and you may know these guys, this guy or this guy, they charge 400 to $600,000 for this service. In fact, just to have this meeting could be $2000." Now, they're going, "Dude, this was a great meeting but I don't have that kind of meeting," but they have to believe that you're worth it or that somebody would actually pay you for that, okay? If they don't believe-

Steve Larsen:

How are you doing that? Yeah, how are you anchoring that?

James Smiley:

You set it up in the very beginning. From when you come in, when somebody says ... I was meeting with, a sales meeting with Siemens' CO not that long ago and I don't know the guy. A partner of mine brought me in and he sits me in, I'm the youngest guy in the room and he looks me dead in the eye, shakes my hand with a big old smile, he says, "James, tell me something about yourself." Just right away, no introduction, "Tell me about" ... That's very common, right?

Steve Larsen:

Sure.

James Smiley:

The last thing you want to do is go through your resume. They're not actually asking you, "Tell me your resume." The thing you want to say is what are your results. What are the things you've done that are huge, the big headlines. That's where, instead of saying, "Well, when I first got into technology," you're losing the sale already.

The first thing you want to say, "Well, what's really cool is I sold this deal and had this partnership and I've been able to help these logos, and I've been in this publication, or I have a book." You want to almost give your sales pitch, like your value proposition to the world, you know? Like what are your big headlines? In the very beginning they're going, "Wow, this person's pretty high level. This person is much more high level than our marketing managers."

Steve Larsen:

That's interesting. You're not necessarily telling the origin story, but you're telling ... You're in the testimonial phase of what you've done. Okay. I'm just putting it in my head where you're going, okay.

James Smiley:

Yes. The only thing I teach people to talk about, I've told hundreds of sales reps this, the only thing you want to share is your results. You want to share what you've done, who've you've helped, what their ROI was. Don't talk about, "I've been in the industry for 22 years."

No one cares about that stuff because most people have been in the industry for XX amount of years.

Steve Larsen:

Sure, especially if the CEO, if they're like, "Yeah, I've been here forever."

James Smiley:

Yeah, yeah. That's not impressive and I would say the same thing in terms of how you fill out your LinkedIn. If you're not established in the industry, don't make your LinkedIn a resume. Make your LinkedIn from top to bottom, all about results. You'll see a significant difference in the type of people that want to engage with you, and so yeah, do you want me to come back to the price tag thing?

Steve Larsen:

Oh heck yeah, yeah. This is awesome. I'm just trying to keep you going. I don't want to turn it off. This is awesome.

James Smiley:

Yeah, this is fun. I'm going to anchor on a super high price tag that I'm worth as a full time employee, working at a corporation, working 40 to 60 hours a week, whatever that is, and then I'll bridge it to, "Okay, this is what my competitors are worth and this is what they charge you, and hey, you might even talk to one of these guys, right?" A lot of times they're like, "Yeah, I've heard about them and man, this is way too pricey."

Then, I'll start to back it into typically, I would charge $150,000 for something like this. When I present that, I'm saying, I start off with, "In order for me to drive 1.2 million dollars of new sales revenue" or whatever that is, right?

I actually try not to lean as much on revenue. I'll lean more towards a different metric. I'll try to anchor on a different metric like, "In order for me to double your leads, in order for me to 4X your leads, or in order for me to take your cost per lead to this number," right? I'll try to stay off of the revenue number now. I learned that when I was really young.

I used to just talk about revenue, but it's better to talk about something slightly different, something that's a little bit more easily measurable for something that I can deliver.

Then so I'll say, "In order for me to do this, you think about the impact and what that could do to your revenue, how it could double, triple your revenue, how it could make you" ... I won't say this directly but essentially I'll hit on something like, "How it could make you look better to your boss, to your board, how much more money you can get from your VCs," right? I'll hit on that.

Then, I'll say, "In order for me to do that, it's a deal at $150,000." Now, I've established like, "Okay, there's a price tag," and now they're like, "Oh crap." The very next thing I step into, and you have to snap to this quick is, "The only thing we need to know together here is do you want this result?

I f you want that, I can always find a way to help you pay for it." Once you say that line, now they're like, "Oh cool. Awesome." They're with you, right? Now they're like, "Okay, help me pay for this." That's where you can break it into different structures, where you can do ... If I can, I'll try to do half up front and then take the rest and divide it over six months or 10 months or whatever you want to do.

Make sure you have a good contract there, so if they cancel, there's a ... We try to do a 60 day out, so if they want to cancel today, they still have to pay two more months, so we'll include a lot of those clauses in there. They can't just drop us on a dime.

We tell them, "Look, you're a big company." Every partnership will end at some point, every one. You're never linked at the hip with a company forever, so the contracts are set up to help you make sure that when those departures happen that everyone's on the same page.

What I'll say is, "You don't want me just to leave and all your ads are running and all this stuff, right? The clause is something that makes it a smooth transition for both of us, to make sure that you're covered, that you guys have exposure, those kind of things, added risk, just because maybe I find a better client."

I wouldn't say it like that, but you know, whatever...

Yeah, and then a lot of people will ask you in the contracting process about, they'll say, "Well, I don't know if I want a commitment. I want it month to month. Do you do month to month?" I will say this, I'll say, "I don't and here's why. One is if there's no commitment, I can drop you like a dime because there's a lot of you. There's only one of me, but there's a lot of you, so you have to-

Steve Larsen:

Great line.

James Smiley:

Yeah. So, I may not say that directly, but I'm just trying to be quick here. I'm going to turn the table there and say, "Do you just want me to leave?" That's where they're usually like, "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, yeah. We want some type of commitment. We don't want you to just run off to our competitors," right?

Steve Larsen:

Yeah.

James Smiley:

So yeah, that's something I'll do in the contracting process as well, is try to make sure that I'm not just going to get left out in the cold, protecting myself, protecting my revenues so it's more predictable. Most companies are not just going to drop it all upfront unless they're more government related, those kind of things, or if you're backing up on their fiscal year they might just drop some cash like that. But yeah, I mean, most of the time they're going to want some type of structure and so the best is to do half upfront if you can.

It's very typical in contracts to see that.

The next best would be make them pay some balloon payment upfront, and say, "Guys, you guys know, to set this up, it's a thousand times harder to set it up than to maintain it three months later, so I need to make sure I'm not running on a negative." I always say things, when it comes down to cost, the big thing you want to inject is, "As you can imagine, I've got a million people. I can go down to all your competitors, they would all want to work with me on this. I just need to make sure that I'm paid so that this keeps my attention, so my attention's on it." That's actually true.

Steve Larsen:

It is, 100%, yeah.

James Smiley:

It's so true, yeah. Like, when you're getting paid $500 or $1000 a month, you're like, "$1000, I'm trying to get to 12,000," it's so small, right?

Steve Larsen:

Yeah, it is small.

James Smiley:

But if somebody's paying you 5000 or 12,000, it's a much bigger deal, right? That's one thing that I'll try to inject, is you're paying to make sure that my attention stays on it. I'll inject that.

Another thing, if I'm having problems closing or adjusting price is I will bring up that what you're really getting here, I'll talk about corporate positions, "Is you're getting a marketing manager, you're getting online strategic digital marketing VP, and you're getting a salesperson. Think about if you were to hire those people. Like, just the hiring process would cost you five figures or more, multi five figures, just to hire them," you know?

Steve Larsen:

Sure, sure.

James Smiley:

Then you're like, "Then you've got to maintain them, then you've got all the different things that come in with employees." Then I'll even throw it out. I'll say, "Look, if you want me to find you those three people, I know three really good ones. I can help you bring them on."

They're looking at that price tag going, "Forget that."

Those are some of the things that I do to try to work on price justification but if you can get down to selling them on the result and then you've set them at ease and say, "Look, my only job now is to help you. Let's work together to figure out how to pay for it, right?" They're like, "Yeah, let's have that discussion."

Steve Larsen:

That is so cool, because then you're not standing in there being the bad guy. Instead of standing forward face to face with them, now you're standing side by side. Oh, my gosh, that's awesome. That's cool.

James Smiley:

Yeah. It works.

Steve Larsen:

I mean obviously you're selling throughout. The sale's never going to end, even after you've made the end, the sale continues obviously, but when do you know that you have them?

James Smiley:

I know I have them when ... That's a great question. To me, I've learned it's more of a gut feel over time. I just get this gut feel like, "This one's going to work" but I think the reality of that is when I've got the decision maker, I've got agreement on time, on need, time, and budget, and the person is like anchoring with me on all the big anchors.

The result, my value, my ultimate value. Like, when they're anchoring on those two things and they're sold on it, they're like ...

I'm trying to close a $150,000 deal right now, and I've had the CEO tell me multiple times, because I'll throw it out there, I'll say, call him on his cellphone, "Hey man, are we going to sign it?" He's like, "Well," he's like, "Man," he's like, "Yeah, I need to get this done. We need to get this done." I'll say, "The other option, man, honestly, you can hire me out right. I will entertain that. If you want to bring that kind of contract forward."

The first thing they do is go, "Dude, I can't afford that." I'm giving them a bargain, right?

Steve Larsen:

Sure, sure.

James Smiley:

Yeah, so when I know I've got them there, I've got them. The last thing I'll say is, it's a fine line between ... You want to keep pushing, you want to make them commit to, "Okay, cool, why don't you think about it and let's set up a meeting for Friday where we can finalize this?"

You want to give them an end date. That's where the scarcity and all those kind of things come into play, and I will absolutely, 80% of the time they're going to drag their feet. It just happens, right? People don't want to be on the hook for signing a 100,000 or a 200,000 or a $50,000 deal, and there's always a level of unknown any time you sign a deal.

It doesn't matter how good you know, what kind of testimony someone has, there's a level of unknown. You're like, "I don't know. I mean, I hope the guy does what he says, but I don't know."

There's a level of risk that they're taking on, so that's why they drag their feet and it's important to ... Like, what's that saying in the seven highly habits? It's like, "7 Habits of Highly Effective People," it's like, "It's more important to understand than to be understood." The reason they're dragging their feed, you have to understand that. Most of the time it's because they don't want to be on the hook if something goes wrong.

Steve Larsen:

Which is why you set the positioning of being next to them, helping them pay for it. I'm assuming that helps like crazy.

James Smiley:

Yes. It's huge there and then also, as days go by, I'll say, "Hey man, as you know, we have marketing systems, automation out there, 24/7, 365. Just to let you know, I've got to move my business forward like you do every day, and so I've got some more leads in this area. I just want to know, how does it look? What's your level of confidence here that this is going to happen in the next week or two?"

Steve Larsen:

Oh, good question.

James Smiley:

You know what I mean?

Steve Larsen:

Yeah.

James Smiley:

That's a good gauging question, and so you need to inject, I just love when you guys talk about scarcity. Because I've been doing that my whole life but I've never called it that. It makes it so clear. Like, it's a word that you can always go to at the end of a sale.

Like, "What do I need to do to create some scarcity and some urgency in this guy's mind?" You know?

Steve Larsen:

Right. That's interesting. Scarcity without saying, "Hey, I'm so hard to get a hold of that we should jump into bed together," you know what I mean?

James Smiley:

Yeah. B2B, most people are going to see through that stuff. You need to be genuine, for sure, yeah.

Steve Larsen:

That makes sense. Man, oh, my gosh, I wish there was more time. I have to actually leave and actually go build, but I'm blown away. This is insane. This is so cool.

I've never had such a clear understanding of how someone actually pulls the funnels off in B2B. I've got another buddy who does them as well, but this is insane, though. You've gone through and just to recap, I always take notes every time I interview somebody, just because I learn so much, man. Especially, holy crap, this has been amazing.

So obviously you went through how to structure the five to six figure price point, the price tag, and the deal, with the needs, timeline and, "What's the budget for this?" And actually start getting the money there.

I love the process, the actual funnel itself. That's amazing...

Every time that we teach somebody, "Hey, if you want to start going," like right now, in Two Comma Club Coaching, there's been a few people who have asked, "Hey, can I sell a $10,000 price point off of a webinar?" Most of the time, we usually say no. Like, by that price tag, you need to start getting them out. You've got to change the selling environment.

You need to go and separate them from behind their computer and go get them somewhere. The fact that you say that first of all, the lead's coming through LinkedIn usually, then through some maybe auto-webinar, you're booking a call, and you're pushing them to an event where you're a traveling roadshow so, "Catch me because I'm leaving" kind of thing.

Oh, my gosh, that's so cool, because you're changing that selling environment. Anyway, I have so many notes that I'm putting notes on my notes in between lines, so I can't even decipher them all no the spot right now but I will very shortly. Man, this has been fantastic.

James Smiley:

Yeah. I mean, I appreciated being able to share with you guys.

Steve Larsen:

Where can people find out about you?

James Smiley:

Yeah, thanks for that. JamesSmiley.org is the main site to go to. We're going to be doing, there's just been so much demand in the past couple months. Really, I would say last three or four months. I had a big press release and just different things, and I've had a lot of people say, "How do I do that?" We're going to put something together to start coaching people and helping them get into this. I'm really into personalization which is kind of my style, so I'm not going to do a traditional, "Hey," like most people would probably do it. Just, "Buy my online course" or something.

We're going to do it a little bit more personal, but because I think if you're going to get into this space, that's where your head needs to start going no matter what. We put together some resources at JamesSmiley.org/sales, and there's a playbook that we've put together. This is a playbook that I used when we IPO'd a company called TeleNav.

It was 350 million dollar a year revenue SaaS company. It was one of the most successful GPS technology companies out of Silicon Valley, but when I came in, I was the sixth employee and when I left there was like 400 employees. I ran sales from Los Angeles, all the way to the other side of the country, and so this kind of goes over how did we go about that process and how did we go about closing all those big deals and getting all those big partnerships done.

It's really become a playbook for people when they go into a meeting. It tells them how you talk through the price tag, how do you even start generating B2B leads, and another cool thing that we just went ahead and put in this playbook is there's a PowerPoint presentation that's a template. It's like 100 slides. We had a big market research firm put this thing together, and so whenever I need to make a pitch, I'll go in there and grab three or four slides, and the graphics and everything is amazing.

We actually paid $7000, we literally paid $7000 to have this thing made about two years ago.

I'm just going to give that away in this playbook so you'll know how to generate leads, you'll have a really slick way to do your presentations so you'll look super professional, just slap your own logo and your own feature function benefits, and your results in there, and we'll teach you the system of how to close. One of the biggest things that you guys need is credibility, and if you're not an author, what I'm going to do is I'll include in here as maybe like a bonus, is I'll co-author a book with you, which is very likely to be an Amazon Best Seller.

I've got a couple of those.

Steve Larsen:

Whoa.

James Smiley:

At least you'll be, you'll get the home study course, you'll get one on one time with me in the mastermind group, and then you'll also be a co-author of a best seller that you can use that as your business card, you know what I mean? Going into businesses-

Steve Larsen:

Wow.

James Smiley:

... saying, "Oh yeah, by the way, here's something I wrote on Facebook ads. Here's something I wrote on online automation," or whatever. I'm hoping that's just a killer value and people would sign up for that, so that's...

Steve Larsen:

Good. Awesome, man. That's huge.

James Smiley:

Yeah, so hopefully that adds a ton of value to people who are trying to figure this thing out. It's at JamesSmiley.org/sales. You know what's just funny is like my passion truly is to help people and especially entrepreneurs.

Like, that's where I came from, and one of the things that I started telling people last year when they started asking me about this is is, you know, I bet you when people first got into Facebook ads or they first got into whatever, that there was all this unknown, right?

Steve Larsen:

Right.

James Smiley:

But then a couple months later they're like, "I got this." That's the same thing here. I mean, once you get your first one or two down, you're going to feel like this is easy. The process becomes a lot easier.

Steve Larsen:

That's awesome. Well guys, thanks so much for listening, and thanks so much for James as well. The B2B expert, sales rep trainer, script writer, event thrower, sponsor getterer, pro bass fisherman.

James Smiley:

Woohoo.

Steve Larsen:

It's been amazing. I really appreciate it, and guys go to JamesSmiley.org/sales and get frankly, one of the coolest things anyone's ever given away on this show. Oh, my gosh, I'm going to go there right now and go opt-in as soon as we're done. Anyways, thanks so much man.

James Smiley:

Okay. Appreciate you guys, have a great day.

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