086 - Ray Kondler - A Crash Course On Poker Taxes

In this episode, expert accountant Ray Kondler gives us a crash course on poker taxes so that amateur and professional players can understand their tax responsibilities and liabilities. Ray explains the pros and cons of filing as an amateur or professional, and stresses the importance of filing - no matter what. Listen in to hear a tax educator give tips and strategies on how to properly record, file, and deal with the IRS - whether you’re an international player or not - so you can maximize your earnings and keep your head in the game. 

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Time Stamped Show Notes:

00:50 – Introducing poker taxes and guest Ray Kondler 01:18 - Ray will give a crash course on poker, taxes and how they impact players 01:37 - Taxes are a common issue, especially for international players playing in America 01:44 - Kondler and Associates are national experts on taxation of poker players and serve both national and international players 02:00 - Services for American players 02:12 - Determining if to file as a pro or as an amateur, providing tax-saving strategies through investments, foundations, LLCs, etc. 02:26 - Services for International players 02:30 - Some countries take 30% out of the winnings, and his company works to get their clients as much of that back as possible 03:15 - Discovering the niche of serving poker players 03:22 - It started by educating people; most accountants and CPAs don’t understand the gambling industry and it’s intricacies 04:00 - If gambling is a person’s profession, they must file differently 04:20 - The advantages and disadvantages of different filing routes 04:30 - If you file as an amateur gambler (not poker-specific), you can only take your gambling losses against it, but it can be all gambling losses 05:30 - If you file as a professional, losses and buy-ins can count against income 05:45 - Professionals can file a schedule C as a business and write-off other related expenses like travel, cell phone, office, meals, etc. 06:25 - Professionals can even take pension plans 06:34 - A disadvantage to filing as a pro is that if there’s substantial income, they’ll pay regular and social security tax, since they are a business 07:10 - If a person doesn’t travel a lot, they wouldn’t file as a pro because they wouldn’t have the write-offs to make up for the social security tax 08:14 - Many accounts just show gambling and don’t consider all the other expenses; Ray’s having an issue with the IRS 08:30 - The IRS labels professional poker players a business 08:45 - If you win big one year and lose big the next, you can’t write it off in a subsequent year against a prior year income; Ray believes this is unfair 09:15 - The poker industry is an up and down game, and the taxation system should consider that 09:30 - He’s trying to take this issue to the next level because if the profession is considered a business on paper, it should be treated as such 10:10 - Deductions, making sure you file, and the use of Bitcoin 10:25 - If high-winning players don’t file, they can have an issue with the IRS 10:50 - Players are using and playing with Bitcoin and they found out some information had to be given to the IRS 11:15 - Ray gets 10-20 people at the booth each year who haven’t filed in years so he works to educate them on the process 12:00 - Tax tip for players: If you win, pay quarterly, and keep record of your earnings 12:30 - Bitcoin 12:50 - Some websites show Bitcoin records, but even the IRS is having trouble classifying what is taxable 13:41 - The IRS has classified Bitcoin as a stock, so the taxation rates are based on the length of time you’ve held it 14:00 - Keep record of your purchases and coin so your accountant has numbers to work with 14:40 - Always file something; the IRS will work with you if you’ve filed 15:55 - He’s working with foreign players to get their refunds from the past three years, but they usually don’t have expense records 16:30 - They can recreate their expenses with bank statements and credit card bills; the chances of a refund review are unlikely for foreign players 17:30 - He can get his foreign clients a tax ID number so they can get their refund; it takes 2-4 weeks to get their ID number and 3-6 months for the refund 18:30 - A certified copy of their passport is necessary for the process to be started, but it can be challenging 20:30 - Ray plays in events and knows what it’s like for players in the industry 21:20 - Ray never charges for calls and advice, so any tax-related questions should be directed to him 

3 Key Points

The biggest difference between filing as an amateur and filing as a professional is that a professional files as a business. Always file because the worst thing to do is not report anything at all. Always keep records of your expenses and earnings, and pay quarterly if you win. 

Contact/Resources

Ray’s Website - Kondler & Associates

Credits

Podcast Production by Podcastily