Is this the ONE Best Strength Training Workout You’ll Ever Find?
Brian Tabor is a fitness coach and CEO of Strong Made Simple in San Diego, CA. While earning his M.S. in Exercise Physiology from San Diego State University, he worked with the SDSU and UCSD strength and conditioning programs along with the US Navy SEALs Tactical Athlete Program. He formerly taught natural movement workshops across the US and won the title of 2010 National Strongman Champion under 175lbs.
Through his coaching business, Strong Made Simple, he creates easy to follow fitness solutions for everyday people to get stronger, connect with their communities, and do more of what matters to them.
Listen to this episode of The MOVEMENT Movement with Brian Tabor about the best strength training working you’ll ever find.
Here are some of the beneficial topics covered on this week’s show:
Connect with Brian:
Guest Contact Info
Twitter
@thebriantabor
Instagram
@strongmadesimple
YouTube
youtube.com/strongmadesimple
Links Mentioned:
strongmadesimple.com
give.feedingsandiego.org/strongmadesimple
Connect with Steven:
Website
Xeroshoes.com
Twitter
@XeroShoes
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@xeroshoes
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facebook.com/xeroshoes
Episode Transcript
Steven Sashen:
I mean, I’m getting a more… It’s still starting, okay. It’s recording, but I’m still thinking. So let’s see how to… I haven’t had a second ago. You want to have a healthy life. You want to find the right diet. You want to find the right way to work out. You want to find the right way to get strong, the right way to be fit. There’s really one best way. And we’re going to talk about it here on today’s episode of the Movement Movement, the podcast for people who want to know the truth. I know I can do that about what it takes to have a happy, healthy, strong body starting feet first, typically because those things are your foundation. We break down the mythology, the propaganda, sometimes the flat out lies that you’ve been hearing about what it takes to run or walk or hike or play, or do CrossFit or yoga, whatever it is you like to do, and to do it enjoyably and effectively and enjoyably. Did I mentioned enjoyably? I know I did. I said it twice because it’s that important.
You’re not having fun, do something differently you are. And we call this the Movement Movement because we’re creating a movement that involves you. And I’ll say more about that in a second about natural movement, letting your body do what bodies are supposed to do, the way they’re designed to work. And the part’s about you is really simple, spread the word. The way you can do that as easy go to www.jointhemovementmovement.com. You’ll find all the past episodes. You’ll find all the places you can find this podcast, all the places you normally find podcasts, as well as our social media channels, et cetera. And then like, and share and give us a thumbs up and hit the bell on YouTube. All those things, you know how to do in short, if you want to be part of the tribe, please subscribe. So let us jump in, Brian, how are you, sir?
Brian Tabor:
I’m doing good. How are you, Steven?
Steven Sashen:
I’m doing great. Do me a favor and introduce yourself and tell people who you are and what you’re doing here.
Brian Tabor:
So, my name is Brian Tabor. I run a personal training business in San Diego, California called Strong Made Simple, work with people, obviously online, mostly this past year. I come from a background of strengthening auditioning. And I got a master’s degree in exercise physiology and even competed in strongman and won a lightweight national championship way back in the day. So really what I do is I try to take the lessons I learned from those things and help people to get stronger so that they can do more of the things that are important to them. Not necessarily spend more time in the gym.
Steven Sashen:
I didn’t know that strong man had weight categories.
Brian Tabor:
Yeah, neither did I when I got started, that was actually a funny thing. Whenever I went to go try it out, the people I was meeting with they were the state chairs. And they’re like, “Wow, you’re really good at this. You can do well.” And I was like, “I don’t know if you’ve seen me, but I weigh 170 pounds and you all are double my size and they’re like, “There’s weight categories.” Now they’re professional level. No, that it’s like, you’re either Brian Shaw or you’re nobody. But amateur level, there are weight classes under 175, under 200, under 230. The one thing is people usually laugh. They’re like under 175 is the lightweight. And I’m like, “Yeah.”
Steven Sashen:
It’s like, dude, I weigh 147 right now. In fact, why I love the idea of CrossFit, but the guys who are the perfect CrossFit competitors are like 185, 190. And I mean, I can pull 300 pounds not a problem, but not as well as someone who weighs 190. So yeah, fascinating. So that’s really… So all the same events, nothing is changed just slightly different weights.
Brian Tabor:
Slightly different weights. And I mean, sometimes pretty similar weights. I mean, I had contests where the heavyweights were moving a 700 pound yoke and they’re like, “Hey, it’s 600 for you.” And I was like, “But, he’s telling me.”
Steven Sashen:
The other thing. I want to have height graded competition for some things. I think there should be a height graded high jump because I’m five, five. So I have no… I stand no chance against someone who’s six, four, but I can… But proportionally, I got pretty good leaving. So if they would only do age graded, weight graded, height graded competition, I think we’re onto something.
Brian Tabor:
I dig it but they’re the powerlifters and the strength guys. It’d be like, “Just don’t be so little blah, blah, blah. And I think some strong man contests, they’ll take your yoke height, but like how height the bar is for the yoke you want to carry. And they make that your stone over bar height.
Steven Sashen:
Oh, interesting.
Brian Tabor:
So, the taller guys, unless they want to squat really deep to pick up the yoke, they got to move that less stone a little bit farther. I’ve only seen that in a few competitions. I don’t know how often people really do that.
Steven Sashen:
Well, in professional and not in powerlifting so much. But although they do weight categories as well, but Olympic lifting. I mean, there’s these super lightweight guys who weigh 120 pounds and they’re lifting three times their body weight. And it doesn’t look as impressive because the numbers aren’t as big. There’s not as many plates on the side of the bar, but I mean, what they’re doing is mind-blowing.
Brian Tabor:
Yeah. And I mean the speed at which they move the weight. They’re like you start breaking down and think about it. You’re like, “Oof.”
Steven Sashen:
Oh, crazy. I went to my first powerlifting competition when I was in high school. They had one at our high school. And I was just curious, and seeing guys who were a fraction of my gymnast size lifting weights that I’ve never even conceived of before was one of the most incredible things I’ve ever seen. And then I went to the… Before the Atlanta Olympics, they were doing all the Olympic trials out here in Colorado. And I went to watch the Olympic lifting competition. And it was so amazing because first of all, they’re doing incredible things, but also it was a very intimate crowd. And the adrenaline that all the lifters are feeling you get, and it’s like, you get so into it. And, it was just amazing and so much fun and super exciting. And then I went to see it at the Olympics in Atlanta. And you’re so far away from where they’re living, that it just didn’t, it was like and whatever, I’d better watch this on TV.
Brian Tabor:
Yeah, to get an oculus.
Steven Sashen:
Yeah, yeah. It was just wasn’t fun at all. But anyway, let’s jump into the topic that I teased with. Look, everyone, if you look at the… If you go into a bookstore you’re going to find that there’s a best diet for you. There’s the diet that’s right for everyone. There’s the best workout, whether it’s high intensity intervals or whatever the hell it is, there’s the best workout. There’s the best, whatever. We just got to, it’s like this one thing that’s all anyone needs to do and it’s going to work out perfectly. You apparently may not agree with that.
Brian Tabor:
Oh, yeah. Now, I mean, just the same way you want everybody to live feed first and get to where they’re more in tune with their toes. I want people to feel stronger in what they’re doing. And so I immediately want to help people when they start telling me about their fitness goals. Think about, okay, what do we do to get stronger? What do we do to help improve this? But the reality is my system using and what I do with a barbell and dumbbells is not always the best for every single person, just because some people don’t like the way a barbell feels or the way a dumbbell feels. Other people love kettlebells because that’s, everything’s fast and snappy and it feels a bit different. But then there’s the other person’s like, “Oh, I hate that kettlebell on my arm when I try to press.” So you need to find what’s fun for you.
Steven Sashen:
That is, you just said something that I’d never thought of. It’s so interesting. First of all for people who are just listening to this, they can’t see that there’s a green barbell behind you on a rack. So first the fact that you have a barbell on a rack behind you is fun, but I didn’t even know they made green barbells and I don’t mean that it’s environmentally friendly. I mean, it’s actually green.
Brian Tabor:
Yeah. This is from American Barbell and it’s just one of their, it’s got the cerakote finish. And I mean, you can get barbells from American Barbell rogue and what’s called cerakote and it comes in pretty much any color you want nowadays. And so…
Steven Sashen:
Oh, yeah. This is, I mean, you can get a barbell to match your decor.
Brian Tabor:
Yeah. I can show that if you probably want to move down here-
Steven Sashen:
Barbell. Oh yeah, that’s good. That would make my wife extraordinarily happy. But the point you made of some people just don’t feel comfortable with it. I never thought about it’s the psychological relationship between you and the implements, but it’s really true. I mean, a barbell, there’s a feeling about that that might not fit the way you something, the way you think, the way you feel. Dumbbells the fact that it’s a slightly unstable thing in your doing stuff independently in each arm, that might feel less comfortable because you don’t have the stability of a barbell. But a barbell is kind of an imposing thing. I mean, it really is. It’s almost weapon like, frankly.
Brian Tabor:
… Very much so. I mean, so whenever I get to meet with people in person, I do it at a university rec center on campus at San Diego State University. And it’s awesome because I meet a ton of different types of people and different professors, faculty, staff, students. And some people come in and they’re like, “I see you in that weight room all the time, but I’m not really sure, like that’s my thing. Why don’t we just start listen dumbbells? We don’t… You don’t have to get under a barbell or let’s use this machine or the cables if that’s where you’re more comfortable.” I think the key thing for helping people to achieve their fitness goals is letting them start where they’re comfortable. So many times we tie into a system or a tool and then once we have that tool, if it’s a hammer, everything looks like a nail. We think everything’s got to be that way. But if we want people to get fitter stronger and healthier, it’s just about progressively meeting a little bit more challenge and practicing those movements to get better and more efficient.
Steven Sashen:
And how’ve you seen as people progress that maybe their relationship to implement changes?
Brian Tabor:
Oh, absolutely. And I mean, you might find somebody, I have clients that will start off. They’re like, “I really don’t want to use a lot of weights. Can we do mostly bodyweight exercises?” Like, “That’s great. How many pushups can you do?” And they’re like, “None.” I’m like, “And you’re going to do a pushup and we’re going to get stronger.” And we stick with that and we focus on mostly bodyweight movements and then they knock out a pushup and then they knock out five. And then they start eyeing barbell because the person next to them. They’re like, “Okay, I did this thing. I can accomplish this.” And I think once people have that sense of accomplishment and then they can do something and get stronger, then they start seeking out the other things. But so often they get thrown to the wolves or to the marketing diet that doesn’t work. They’re not really sure that they can be successful with their health and fitness. So when you give people some quick wins, it opens that up to them to not just be tied to one thing.
Steven Sashen:
That’s a really interesting point, the accomplishment. One of the things that I find really unpleasant, this happens in the business world and it happens with kids these days. These kids today is people who talk about building confidence without having accomplishment as the base. And confidence is not a thing that you have without having something real behind it, some actual accomplishment. And I love the way you’re bringing that up because it is interesting that as you do get more comfortable with some of these things, your relationship with them really does change. I mean, I remember when I was dead lifting, heavy which I don’t do so much anymore because I’ve got a messed up back, my spine is basically broken, but that’s a whole other story.
But nonetheless, at first just having the weight that you can do is comfortable, you like that. But then you get to a certain point it’s like, you just want to challenge yourself. You just going to get another couple of plates on that bar. And literally the relationship that I feel with my… I haven’t, never thought of this. The relationship that I feel with my barbell is so different now than it was when I first started lifting, first started using, and first started lifting heavy. And now it’s going to sound horrible. I mean, it’s a friend we’re trying to accomplish something together.
Brian Tabor:
And I mean, this isn’t the first analogy I would bring up to somebody that’s new and a little intimidated by it. But it’s funny watching somebody go from, I don’t like holding the barbell that gnarling like hurts my hands to then months down the road, they’re like, “Look how bloody my shins are,” because I was really dragging that bar up for the dead. It seems like you’re good. And like, “Yeah, we should get that cleaned up.”
Steven Sashen:
Yeah. It’s totally fascinating. And it’s similar thing, if we talk about running. I find it really fascinating as a sprinter, these ultra-runners it’s not my gig. Like when people talk about doing 100-mile race, I don’t like driving 100 miles. So not… I don’t like driving 26 miles. I’m not even sure I would like driving a 5K, frankly. So it’s not my thing. But I find it really, really interesting seeing the people who are getting into it because what is clearly making it work is that progressive sense of accomplishment of going beyond what you thought you could do.
And then from there going beyond that, even. And frankly, and this is going to sound silly. We’ve had people who, when we first started Xero Shoes and we just had to do it yourself, sandal making kit. I met people who said, “Once I learned I could make my own footwear.” I started making a whole bunch of other things. I started repairing my appliances. I started fixing things I would otherwise throw away. And it was it just opened up this possibility that I had never thought about the global effect of just those little accomplishments and how they roll out into your life.
Brian Tabor:
Yeah. I always laugh because in that same sort of vein, I didn’t own many tools until I was 30. And I remember I called my dad. I was 30. I was like, “Hey dad, I bought a power drill.” He was like, “So?” I was like, “I’m fixing stuff around the house here. It’s good. Liz is in too, that’s my wife.” He’s like, “All right, good for you.” And I’m like, “No, I’m totally handy now.”
Steven Sashen:
Someone’s sent me a housewarming present, my wife and I just moved into a new to us house and they sent me a really good drill and impact drill. And I could not have been happier. I mean, good tools, man. Oh, boy. And I would have never paid for this one on my own because it’s more of a tool than I thought I deserved. But having it, I just feel awesome.
Brian Tabor:
Just out in front of the neighbors.
Steven Sashen:
I’ll walk around with it and latest as its home improvement, man. Yeah, totally, it’s makes me extraordinarily happy. So backing up. So somebody comes to you, so the name of your company, again for humans who missed it.
Brian Tabor:
Strong Made Simple.
Steven Sashen:
Talk about the simple part of that.
Brian Tabor:
Well, the simple part of that is I really try to just get people to focus in on what I think a lot. I think most fitness professionals now are just considered, like these are big basic movement patterns and nobody has their own little iterations of it based on how they teach it. But it’s like an upper body push and upper body pull, lower body push and lower body pull, or if you want to call it a hinge or a quad dominant. And then some core work or rotation and however that all ties in. So I try to get people to focus in on what are we going to get the most impact from with, or yeah, biggest impact with the least amount of effort. What’s our low hanging fruit. And then we just practice that.
We’re not trying to constantly vary and change things. We want to stick to the things that are going to help us make the most progress and then consistently practice it. Sometimes that means pushing it and making it really challenging. But other times that means just staying within what we know we’re capable of and honing our movement patterns with it. So I’m always looking for those big compound movements for people to do, but I will meet people where ever they’re at within reason on and what tool we use, what regression or progression we use, and we start there. And I usually try to find something that’s honestly a little too easy. So in those first days, guests, while they’re stacking up wins and they’re like, “Oh wow, cool. I did that.” And then we get the next one.
Steven Sashen:
So, I want to talk about how you would stack up those wins and start with something really small. But I want to back up to the first part. So people really get it. So the upper body push, if you think about it there’s different angles. So you could do like a military press, overhead press, you could do a bench press. So it’s still a push but you’re lying down. So those are two most common upper body push exercises, pull, pull-ups or chin-ups or rows. So same idea. You’re either starting with your arms above your head, or you’re starting the up.
Basically, take a bench press and turn it upside down for people who are trying to get that one way of thinking about that. For leg stuff, squats are the obvious thing, effort is an obvious thing. I know a lot of people get very intimidated by both of those exercises and rightly so, because if you aren’t, if you don’t master the form it can be problematic. So those are just some examples of… You want to think of any other examples on those core compound movements that you want to toss in?
Brian Tabor:
Yeah. I mean, you kind of hit it right there and it’s just depends on changing which implement they use or if they’re using body weight. And going from there, I feel like I have something and I lost it a little bit. But I mean, that’s pretty much it, you push things overhead, you push things sort of… Oh, I know what I was going to say. Most of the time I have people push and pull things horizontally. I work with a lot of people on a college campus, a lot of people that spend a lot of time at computers and desks. And I mean, even if they’re not on campus, a lot of people spending time at computers and desks pushing and pressing and pulling weight overhead, just honestly, isn’t that friendly right away?
Steven Sashen:
Right.
Brian Tabor:
I’ll do kind of a bastardized amalgamation of an FMS screen and if they’re not getting anywhere close to touch in their hands together behind their head, when they do that, or they got that crankiness like, “All right, cool. We need to… We’re going to start addressing that with some mobility patterns in between your other exercises.” So we’re just going to mix the medicine with the fun stuff and get in there.
Steven Sashen:
That’s a really interesting point. So for people who don’t understand FMS about functional movement. So I mean, that’s another interesting component is that people do have things, ways of moving that they’re good at, ways of moving that they’re bad at. And that’s an interesting challenge or opportunity because on the one hand you don’t want to put yourself in a bad situation by making something that you’re bad at worse. But if you’re bad at it, that means there’s something to address. And it’s usually, in my experience I’m curious what yours is to address that you normally have to back up to something that is almost childlike or childish in the movement, just to find a way to get things to head in the right direction and have something. I mean, you’ve got… When you work with people about some movement problem, what do you find yourself doing most often? And I want to go back to that thing about horizontal pushing and pulling and get some examples about that too.
Brian Tabor:
If they’re not able to do any overhead pressing, I can often revert to a landmine press because it’s kind of up and forward and pretty friendly. And then in terms of trying to improve that mobility through their shoulders and their thoracic spine along the way, those just become things that we start adding in to warmups or during rest periods. If it’s not too taxing and they can work through say T-spine extensions on a foam roller and those things so that they’re still recovering. And then they can get back to their main movement, which might be a lunge or a deadlift pattern that they’re comfortable with. And then over time, as we see their mobility improving, it’s like, “Hello, Hey, look, how much closer your hands get together behind your back?” Or like, “Oh, it’s a lot easier to take off my bra or to take off my shirt and do things.” You get those comments like, “All right, we’re on the right path.”
Steven Sashen:
Happily, I find it pretty easy to take off my bra.
Brian Tabor:
That’s good.
Steven Sashen:
Yeah. At the end of the day just right away. Do you find that when people do have some… Given how much time people are spending in computers and how much time they’re spending sitting, are you finding that the biggest problem people have is lack of strength that would put them in proper alignment or sore or things, or because we’re… Or that things have just gotten overly tight, so something lacking or something overly done. Are you seeing a problem?
Brian Tabor:
I think it’s a combination of both. And I try to… When I approach the idea of like, “Hey, we’re going to try to loosen things up, we’re going to try to stretch. I mean, I tell people that we’re not actually lengthening those tissues. We are changing your body’s motor pattern in relationship between the antagonists that work around a certain joint.” So one of the super common ones I see is anterior pelvic tilt, and just really disengaged abdominal muscles and tight hip flexors. And it’s like, we don’t want to just try to stretch out our hip flexors because they’re tight in the front. We want to train our abdominal muscles to give us support from the front of the pelvis. We want to train our glutes and hamstrings to create tension from the backside of the pelvis and the hips so that we can have that balance.
I often tell people, when they’re walking around, try to imagine you got the shiniest belt buckle in Texas, and you want that thing shine and straight ahead. And they’re like, “Wait, what?” And I’m like, “Well, you kind of pick it up. You wouldn’t let it just point down at the ground. You’re trying to lift up.” So that is a really common law trying to engage the abdominal muscles. So we’re not just thinking of my abs do crunches.
Steven Sashen:
Right.
Brian Tabor:
Do thing you’re like, my abs helped me keep my pelvis in a good position and start my posture from the pelvis up, whether it’s when they’re sitting or when they’re standing and walking, that’s a really, really common one.”
Steven Sashen:
The thing about having the… Engaging the glutes and the hamstrings to get your pelvis in line. So anterior pelvic tilt the front of your pelvis is tipping down. And that, like you are saying, can come from tightness in the hip lectures, for example, and laxity and the glutes and hamstrings that the lack of strength and glutes and hamstrings is one that I see so, so often. Even among people who think they’re doing a lot of things for that. Like runners, where we just see it all the time where you poke your finger in their glutes and there’s no tension there. And you say do not just try to make it so that I can poke my finger in your glutes so much. And they’re like, “Oh my God, that’s what my butt does.”
And in part because it’s behind us we don’t see it. And so we don’t get the feedback that we need to have it be obvious that that’s problematic. And that’s what, like you said, that supports your entire torso, that supports your back. That gives you additional strength and people just don’t have that relationship. Same thing with things with your shoulders. We don’t see our back. So we aren’t paying attention to things that would open up the chest and have the back engaged in a way that can get your shoulders aligned well.
Brian Tabor:
Exactly. And then one of the ways that I can usually address this with people, and then also they get a light bulb when… Because it all starts to click together is we may start off doing some dead bug drills, where they feel their abs or some breathing drills trying to feel their midsection working. It’s like, “Okay, now we’re going to do a glute bridge. I want you to squeeze tight through the glutes. And now give me that big forced exhale.” And they feel their ab signing up. It’s like, “Okay, we’re working through.” Now, squeeze your hands together. So your lats and your upper back get engaged and like, “Okay.”
And at first, it’s like, “What are all these things? Well, now do you feel that you’ve put all those things together?” And then they stand up and give them a light dumbbell or something? It’s like, “Now I want you to do that goblet squat again and do all those things, put them together. And they’re like, “Oh, why? Let me move from the 15 pound dumbbell to the 30. I’m good. Let’s go.” I don’t like to… I didn’t know this is how it works.
Steven Sashen:
That’s so interesting because I hadn’t thought about it. But most people do think about the body as individual parts. I’m working on my glutes, I’m working on my arms, I’m working on my whatever but they all do relate that way. Where if you don’t engage the whole thing properly, you’re not using the first thing properly. That’s really important.
Brian Tabor:
Another really good example, and it ties into minimal issues and things like that is marching drills, get people into a stance where they can march. It’s like, “Okay, I want you to press down and really use your toes into the ground and then draw your knee up nice and high.” And they’re like, “Oh, my glutes like cramping up.” It’s like, “Yeah. Because see, you’re connected all the way down the floor. You’re able to create that tension all the way up and through now. You’re not just flopping around on a peg leg.”
Steven Sashen:
It’s so funny you say that. In the last couple of weeks, I’ve been doing a hip flexor exercise. Basically, I strap a weight to my foot. I stand with my back against the wall and I just lift the knee of that foot that has the weight attached to it. And while I feel it in my hip flexors, I feel it just as much if not more in the other side glute.
Brian Tabor:
Yeah.
Steven Sashen:
So, I’m not doing anything for my butt, but the next day my butt is sorer than my hip flexors.
Brian Tabor:
Yeah. And I mean people, when they feel those things and you can tie it all together for them, it all starts to make more sense. And you can say it to them in a way that is still their language and the words that they would use be like, “Hey, you feel that right in your ass cheek?” And they’re like, “Yeah.” And start speaking people’s language instead of trying to tell them about their piriformis or anything. I’d be like, “Yeah, we’re going to… You’re going to feel it in the side of your butt. You’re going to rotate over speaking to people in language that they already use. Even if it’s not perfect fitness speak that you would get at a conference, you’re there to help those people understand it, not to go speak to colleagues.
Steven Sashen:
So now, that’s brilliant. Backing up the whole thing of starting especially with horizontal pushing and pulling. Can you give some more examples of that for people who… Because I liked the idea of people who are listening or watching. I mean we don’t believe there’s a one size fits all something, but there are common factors let’s say. And so there’s things where we’re all basically built fundamentally the same. So using those basic core compound movements and pushing and pulling, et cetera, these are variations of that. So I want to make sure that people are able to walk away with something they can experiment with. So can you say more about the horizontal pushing and pulling?
Brian Tabor:
Yeah. Horizontal pushing might start with something. I try to get a lot of people to do pushups. I have like a, how to do your first pushup guide on my website because it’s that thing that people equate being able to do pushups with like, “Hey, I’m strong.” It’s the thing the guys in the military do pushups. You’re strong, so it’s a big win. But that might start with pushing against a wall, it’s just pressing forward. And now that is horizontal, relative to the earth and it gets more challenging as we move down to the ground.
Even though our arms are then vertical, it’s still horizontal relative to your posture and pushing through. So it might start with just moving down in levels to make that incrementally more challenging. Yeah. And then once you get that and everything’s tight along the way, you’re probably going to realize that, “Well, still, I’m horizontal pulling, but all those muscles that I had to get tight when I did glue bridges and planks, those all have to come into place so I can still do horizontal pushing. Good horizontal pushing isn’t separate from all the other core bracing ideas and going through that.
Steven Sashen:
I was talking to some powerlifters recently who gotten into Xero Shoes and they said, “I’m setting personal bests because the shoes are letting my toes spread more and I can grip the ground more.” And it was I mean, they hadn’t heard anyone say it before they go bench pressing starts with your feet. And people never think of it that way. And then you watch a professional powerlifter. And the position they’re in it’s like, it doesn’t look like what happens when you go to a gym and watch people just bench pressing. It’s a whole body thing that is a completely different game.
Brian Tabor:
Yeah. I mean, as soon as your body and your nervous system starts to perceive that you’re less than stable, you don’t get to push as hard. You’re are the back little lizard part of our brain says, “Ah, ah, nope, not stable. Don’t do it.” And people will often want to do chin-ups and it’s like, “Okay, well, how long can you hang from the bar?” And if they can’t hang from the bar for at least 20, 30 seconds, there’s not going to be a lot we can do with other thing. We’ve got just work on gripping, get stable and connected through the hands.” So the nervous systems are saying, “Oh, we can use these other muscles a bit more because we’re not going to go rip it away from the bar and fall on our butts.”
Steven Sashen:
Well, and to your point about tightening everything when you’re doing a glute bridge, similar thing for doing chin-ups and pull-ups, most people don’t think about really gripping, really trying to hold that bar, grip that bar tight and what that does to add the tension every rest, let alone tightening your abs. So the rest of you is stable while you’re lifting that thing instead of being floppy, which can move around. I really love this idea that we’re playing with them, just getting the whole body engaged and what most people think of as single joint or simple movements.
Brian Tabor:
Yeah. I mean, even a compound push or pull for the upper body is going to benefit from additional tension elsewhere in the body. Now that’s true for strength but then there are also exercises where you have to teach people how to turn it on and off to do well. And that’s where I think you start getting into a little bit more of… This isn’t just about absolute strength for someone, but learning how to use it and turn it on and off in an athletic manner. You might be able to scale.
Well, one of the things that I often heard is sprinters aren’t fast because they push on the ground harder than everybody else. Is that they can turn it off so that their leg moves freely and spins back around to do it again faster. Because if you try to keep all that tension, you move slow so they can turn it off and on and do that quick ground reaction force faster than anybody else. But then it turns way off just to spin back around and take that next step. So I’ve always liked that, like you got to be able to turn it on and off to do things more athletically.
Steven Sashen:
When I first started sprinting again when I was 45, it was fascinating to me to feel how much better I could run when I was focusing on relaxing. It’s like, how much, how little effort can I put into this? And you’re right. I mean, the thing that I felt is that my cadence picked up that I’m just moving my legs faster. Which was, it seems really counterintuitive, but then you have the experience and who cares what you think the experience just told you. So that’s a good one.
Brian Tabor:
I ran hurdles in high school, and I did the 110s and the rows, but I loved the 110s because it was like you had three steps, then you go. And if you got it just right, it felt like you barely touched the ground. I was like… And it was just like, that is a crazy feeling. And I tried to… I’ve been including more running into my own workouts and stuff lately. I live close to the beach in the bay and it’s been run around. So I just been adding in little pickups and I’ll see like, “Okay, there are five tile squares.” I just want to try to recreate that feeling, how fast can my feet float over five concrete squares? And then I’m back to my easy run.
Steven Sashen:
I watched… Have you seen the show, Your Honor? I’m going to say something bad about Bryan Cranston.
So, it’s on showtime, Bryan Cranston to start. And in the first… I just started watching it. It’s really anxiety producing. For anyone who doesn’t know, it’s the story of a judge, his son accidentally hits a kid and kills him with his car. And it happens that the kid is… And they’re going to go to the police and fess up. And then Brian Cranston’s character discovers that the kid that his son killed is the son of the biggest mob boss in town. And so, oh, we can’t tell anyone because then we’re all going to get killed.
But anyway, the first part of the show opens with him running. And he’s running away and I couldn’t figure out what he was doing. It looked weird. And it was really that he was walking really fast. So he wasn’t hitting the ground in that light way that you described. He was just kind of like landing on the ground and then pulling his foot underneath him and he was accomplishing running, but it certainly wasn’t, what’s going to be enjoyable. Anyway, that’s neither here nor there. So backing up, so we did, we talked about horizontal push, talking about horizontal pull.
Brian Tabor:
So horizontal pulls that’s going to be all of our big rowing movements. So one arm dumbbell rows, seated cable rows are usually the ones that people are the most comfortable with in a gym or some sort of machining, put your chest against you just pull up, pinch those shoulder blades in the upper back. These are something that I honestly, even though I’ll put a lot of emphasis for the pushup, because people can buy into it quickly. They may not realize they’re like, “Oh, we did pushups and then rows. And then I also did some squats and I did rows with those too because our lives happen in front of us and in our cars and on our phones.
So, we’re always kind of pulled forward. Horizontal polling is really important one. So we start to strengthen those muscles that help us to kind of, it’s that same relationship of being tight or loose having a good relationship in the tension between the muscles in the front of our body, our techs and our shoulders and those muscles in the upper back. So that we have that relationship, our shoulders can sit back and we can have good posture. And often as people just start getting more of that horizontal pulling, it’s like, “Oh, wait, I can get my hands overhead. And they don’t even realize that unrelated to a corrective drill or whatever, they’re just doing rows. And now their overhead mobility is better.”
Steven Sashen:
I had… So I’m a former All-American gymnast and all gymnast that I know come out with bad shoulders in some way. And so my right shoulder is wacky and I couldn’t reach the middle of my back and et cetera, et cetera. And I remember where I got the idea, but I just decided I set up a chin-up bar on the door of one of the bathrooms in our house. And so I just had a thing where I decided I’m going to do five chin-ups or five pull-ups every time I go in or out of the bathroom. And I was amazed, I’ve seen so many massage therapists and physical therapists tried to loosen up things in my shoulder, but when I just started strengthening things by doing that pulling not horizontal per se, but I really focused on engaging my back before I engaged my arms. I was amazed to see how much more flexible my shoulder became from building up that strength from that pulling motion.
Brian Tabor:
Yeah. And you’re also just working through a big, full range of motion, stretching the lats and all those muscles through the back each time you do hank vertically.
Steven Sashen:
Yeah. That was a really interesting one. You said something about pulling that gave me a thought. Oh, one of the problems with pulling exercises, I think for many people is you don’t get the same pump that you get on things that are in front of your body.
Brian Tabor:
Yeah.
Steven Sashen:
You never… Like you do bench pressing and you feel your chest is pumped up, you do rolling things and you don’t feel like your back is pumped up.
Brian Tabor:
Yeah. Sometimes with things like that you can again, add something fun to the medicine. So back in biceps day, people love it because guess what? Every back exercise or like pulling exercise is a little bit of a bicep exercise. You add another bicep drill in there. And it is like, “Oh wow. I’m feeling pumped up through my arms. It’s like, yeah. But we’re also doing a great job of pulling the shoulder right back in that great.” And people start having more fun. They like the way that feels a little bit pump.
Steven Sashen:
When people ask me about what I do for working out, I go, “Well, since I’m still competing as a sprinter, I focus primarily on things that have value to me as a sprinter. And then, because I’m vain, I do some bench pressing and chin-ups.”
Brian Tabor:
Yeah. Nothing wrong with that.
Steven Sashen:
No, look, it’s just the way it is. I like it when I’m taking off my shirt and my wife goes, “Ooh. I’m all for that.” So I don’t need it. It’s completely useless. If I’m putting on weight in my upper body, it doesn’t help me run. And I cannot do those two exercises.
Brian Tabor:
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. And some people want to poo-poo of like, is it functional or whatever their definition of functional is a bit because it carries over if it’s on an unstable surface, where is like, if you’re enjoying it and it’s good for you and it’s not hurting you, go for it. And if you liked the way your t-shirts fit better, awesome. It’s just one more path and window into all the other awesome benefits and things you can do.
Steven Sashen:
Yeah. I mean, I bring that up in part to come back to what we started the conversation with is finding the thing that really does work for you because while there are these common principles, these compound movements, that part that works for you, the right tools, the right implements, the right exercises, right? Et cetera, that is the Holy Grail. And it’s… Do you have any thoughts about how people can figure that out or do… First I wouldn’t have people find out how they can find you, but considering that, every book in the health sections of the bookstore is like, here’s the one thing you need to do. And they act as if it’s the one thing that’s right for everybody, since that’s not true. Do you have any thoughts about how someone can, if they’re really new to strength training in particular, but just anything find that thing that really is right for them that does fit them. Instead of trying to put a body shape peg in a different body shaped hole?
Brian Tabor:
I would say either A, choose what just immediately it looks interesting and fun. If you think that’s dumbbells and barbells go for it. If you are like, “I like what those kettlebell people or that Steele NACE guy is doing,” go for it. Start moving, start learning. But also, and I think this is probably more important for most people to start. What is the path of least resistance? What can you fall over when you walk out your door? Like, “Oh yeah, I like that. I’m trying to do that thing.” Because if you’re not into the habit of exercising and you’re not into it, and you’re not going to drive 30 minutes to the gym, you’re not going to take that stop on the way home from work or get up early to go to is too far out of the way.
So, do whatever is the most accessible you can do with a friend that, so you have some, that makes it, gives it a fun factor. And then the fact that I have a few clients that remind me of this. There are some people that just don’t dig exercising. They always remind me like, “Remember your idea of fun is not our idea of fun. I do this because it helps me feel better and do the other things I want to go do. I want to go feel good and go hike? Or I want to go surf. I could care less about this hour in the gym that it helps me do the other thing.”
Steven Sashen:
Yeah. I don’t like working out, but I like having worked out.
Brian Tabor:
That’s totally fine. That’s fine.
Steven Sashen:
And that’s the way your brain is wired then that works.
Brian Tabor:
Yeah. I think the best thing there is just to relate the benefit of why are we doing this? Always having that reason why we’re trying to accomplish keeping that forefront of those people’s minds. So you got to figure out what’s right for you. Are you the type of person you need to know why you’re doing it because exercise really isn’t your thing. That’s how you get going. If you’re the type of person that you just, you’re not into the habit and it’s different but you might get into it. It needs to be the most easily accessible path of least resistance.
Steven Sashen:
You just gave me, made me think of something that I hadn’t occurred to me before, which is that exercise… How do I want to say this? There are a lot of times where we think that there’s a problem with us. That’s actually, it’s not a bug, it’s a feature of being human. And it just occurred to me that most people don’t like exercise because it’s not normal. Like the way we evolved exercise was just part of our daily life. We needed to pick things up. We needed to put things down. We needed to carry things. We needed to get place to place. It was just part of our life to make it artificial. It should seem weird. I mean, not for everyone but it’s not surprising if it seems weird because it is weird. It’s a somewhat artificial thing.
And people… I don’t know that anyone’s ever thought about this, but like, let’s say you’re working on one of our home improvement and projects. And you can be carrying boxes around like all day, you’ll get tired. But if you look at how much weight you move during that time, it’s probably more than you would have done if you went to the gym, but it’s part of what you’re doing. And so there’s a whole different relationship to that. So if exercise seems wrong to you or unpleasant or whatever, you’re not broken, it doesn’t mean you need to find a way to make it seem good. That’s probably a sign that you need to find a way to integrate something. That’s, let’s call it fake exercise that accomplishes that purpose, that doesn’t feel like that kind of impositioned. And that in position, that’s a reasonable position to have.
Brian Tabor:
Yeah. And I mean, they’re athletes that don’t like going to the weight room. It’s not their thing. They like to exercise, but like, that’s not their thing. The only reason they’re there is because they know it makes them go out and compete hard. Their thing is winning.
Steven Sashen:
There’s a video of Usain Bolt in the weight room. And he’s just like constantly talking about how much he hates it. Yeah.
Brian Tabor:
Yeah.
Steven Sashen:
Yeah, it’s like, “Ugh, it’s the worst.” But he went and did it. And so it’s an interesting point. There was another… Oh crap. There was another thought that you just gave me find a way to make a whoa. Another one is so you and I are very much the same way. If it’s not right in front of my face, it doesn’t exist. So that’s why I’ve got my home gym near a place where there’s a television, where I would sit and do nothing and the gym is right there. Otherwise, it’s just not going to happen. But for some people they need to get out of the house. For some people, they need to go somewhere. I have a flashback to something. Story my father told about his father. Let’s just say my father’s mother, not the nicest woman.
And so, my dad’s growing up and he said to his father one day, “Why do you go out every morning to get coffee and a newspaper? They can deliver the paper here and we can make coffee here.” And my grandfather says, “Then how would I get away from your mother?” And so if you need to go somewhere, because that’s the thing that’s helpful for you then cool. But if you’re joining a gym because you think that’s the thing that’s going to make you go to the gym might not be the case.
And maybe you do need just a couple of some things underneath your feet in your house that allow you to do whatever you can in the most natural, easy way possible. And again, we’re just playing with this idea of I’m hoping that people are thinking about, okay, what do I actually like I said top of the thing, it’s not fun, do something different till it is basically. And most people just don’t think about that when it comes to exercise. And then boy don’t even get me started on how people get messed up with that thought when it comes to diet.
Brian Tabor:
Yeah, totally. And I mean, I have this space in my house.
Steven Sashen:
Yeah.
Brian Tabor:
It’s not my favorite place to work out. Like it’s convenient and it works well, but it’s imposed from the pandemic. My favorite place to work out is honestly, some other friend’s garage. Not even necessarily a gym I want to go to… I may have all the same equipment in my garage.
Steven Sashen:
Right.
Brian Tabor:
In my little space here, but I want to go to my buddy’s garage because it’s not the place where I lay my head and relax. It’s not the place where I food and chill out. That’s fun.
Steven Sashen:
Well, and some of if it is his garage, and some of it, I would argue it’s probably because it’s him. And like you said before find a partner. So the social component is such a big thing that’s so overlooked. When I was a 16-year-old gymnast, I started writing a book about fitness. And the first chapter was find a friend because this shit’s hard. And even when you’re making it fun, there’s times where it’s hard and there’s times where you just wake up and even if it’s not hard, you just like, “I want to do it.” But when you have someone you’re accountable to, I mean, I have that with my training partner now there are times on any given Sunday, when we go hit the track, at least once a month, one of us will look at the other and go, “Oh, I’m so glad you were here because otherwise I was going to take a nap.”
Brian Tabor:
Yup. And I mean, maybe you both get there sometimes too. You’re like, “Okay, I made it here because you’re here.” And you’re like, “I made it here because you’re here.” And we’re like, “Well, we’re here.”
Steven Sashen:
Well, and there’s times where we have that and we start warming up and it’s like, “This is not going to happen.” But by the time we’re done warming up, we’re ready to go. Where we do that first sprint and it goes better than we expected. And it’s like, oh, okay. The fact that I feel like crap is not an obstacle. Well I can keep going and you end up not feeling like crap at the end.
Brian Tabor:
And that’s definitely one of the things I try to tie in with my programs and my clients. I meet with almost every single client in a small group of typically two to four people.
And the big thing that I always hear from people is like, “We’re so happy that when we do this, we get to connect with other people.” That even though we switched and moved everything to Zoom for this past year. Like I got to socialize with more people and do more. I don’t even try to shut down the conversation like in workouts too much, especially this last year, because you never know who hasn’t talked to somebody all week. And so they want to talk and blat on like blah, blah, blah. And it was like, “Hey, I got to say one thing.” Tell somebody what they got to do. And then it’s like cool back at it talk, because I mean, that’s part of all of us being human and part of our old natural conditioners. We want to talk and we want to have some cake and see each other.
Steven Sashen:
I’ve got to tell you, our customer happiness team here is your issues was reporting that phenomenon that people were calling. And it was clear that they didn’t really have an issue that they needed help with, they just needed someone to talk to. And if you look at the duration of calls that we had pre-COVID and during COVID, I mean, they went up significantly. People just like we’re so socially starved that to be able to pick up the phone, talk to someone made them very, very happy, which we were, let’s say we were semi-happy to accommodate every now and then. Yeah, look, we’ve got three other calls during this. I really, I mean, I’ve really got to go. You can try back at another time.
Brian Tabor:
Yeah. Point them to the Facebook group, go talk to other Xero Shoe wears.
Steven Sashen:
We do that. Well, I do and ask me anything on Facebook once a month and it’s really entertaining. There are people who’ve come to like everyone and they, all they want to talk about is like, “So what new recipe do you have?” And I’m happy to do it. I mean, I’ve become a really good cook during COVID and make that go away. Because and some of the stuff that I have found is weird like chocolate hummus. I did not know that wasn’t a thing. It is now one of my all-time favorite things.
Brian Tabor:
Wow.
Steven Sashen:
And so, if you want the secret of chocolate hummus, you have to come to and do ask me anything, or you can look up chocolate hummus on YouTube and you will find a bunch of recipes. We’ll tell you the secret is taking the garbanzo beans and peeling off the skins. And because then when you blend it up, it’s smoother.
Brian Tabor:
I like it.
Steven Sashen:
Yeah.
Brian Tabor:
Sorry to say it.
Steven Sashen:
Yeah, that is a pro-tip. So-
Brian Tabor:
I may-
Steven Sashen:
… Go ahead sorry.
Brian Tabor:
… I may have to come to want to ask me anything at some point. I don’t even think I mentioned, but I have several pairs of Xero Shoes. I got the Bodhi Shoes. I got a pair of sandals. I’ve had two or three pairs of the Honda’s and the Prius and my… The sandals, I can’t remember which ones I have. They’re amazing for walking around Europe in the rain.
Steven. Sashen:
Yeah.
Brian Tabor:
My wife and I like to travel a lot and we’ve been like all these different areas and different streets and stuff have little puddles. You’re in a pair of sandals, like, “My feet are wet.” “You got shoes and socks on you’re like, My feet are wet.” I’ve had so much fun in the sandal. It’d be like, “I don’t care if my feet are wet. I’m interested in these open sandals walking around.”
And then the other times I normally get a lot of steps. Like 15 is a low day for me, whenever I’m in the gym bouncing all around and stuff. But we’ve had some days where I was just wearing the Hannahs and it’s like, we got like 45, 50,000 steps today and all on cobblestones. And I’ve been kind of… At the end of the day after stepping on all the cobblestones. Fi
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