Episode 8 -Challenges with Growth - Andrew Bartlow

Growing Pains are hard, they don't get easier the bigger you get just more complex. So understanding your focus and what's most important is something that this guest can differently help with. 

Andrew Bartlow, to put it simply, is wildly brilliant! 

Leighann Lovely  00:15

Let's talk. HR is a place for HR professionals, business owners and employees to come together and share experiences, to talk about what's working and what's not. How we can improve best practices so that companies can better attract, train and retain all generations of workers. We all know that there has been a huge shift in what people want. generations are coming together, more than ever, on what's important. Mental health has been brought to the forefront of everyone's mind. Let's humanize these conversations. Let's talk about how the economy has been impacted, and what needs to happen to find a balance. I'm your host Leighann. Lovely. So let's get this conversation started. And remember, if you enjoyed this episode, follow us like us and share us. Andrew Bartlow has 25 years of human resource and talent management experience at organizations across a wide spectrum of sizes, maturity stages and industries. He is the co author of scaling for success people priorities for high growth organizations. He has a master's degree from a top program in his field and has been CECP, SPHR, Six Sigma and Executive Coaching certified. Andrew leads Series B Consulting, which helps businesses to articulate their people strategy and accelerate their growth while navigating rapid change. He also founded People Leader Accelerator, which is the preeminent development program for startup HR leaders.

 

Leighann Lovely  01:56

Welcome Andrew, I am so glad that you agreed to talk with me today.

 

Andrew Bartlow  02:01

Leighann really happy to be with you.

 

Leighann Lovely  02:03

So tell me a little bit about your background. And a little bit about your book that you released in January of 2021. I'm excited to hear about this. (Correction to - Book Released in July 2021)

 

Andrew Bartlow  02:15

Oh, yeah, well, thanks a lot. I have about 25 years of Human Resources experience at companies very large to very small and everything in between and a bunch of places that you have probably heard of, and a bunch of places you probably haven't. I was really fortunate, lucky, successful exit from the last company where I was the head of HR as they went public and went through a number of different mergers and acquisitions and pulled my parachute a few years ago, started consulting and advising private equity backed companies venture backed companies doing some independent work. As I was getting started with that, I wrote my bucket list book that Columbia University published. So I was just really pleased with their support. And the topic of the book is well the name of it is scaling for success, people priorities for high growth organizations. So that's, that's pretty self-explanatory, but it's really about people and management practices. At high growth companies, you don't have to be a VC backed tech company for this stuff to be relevant. But there just isn't enough useful practical material out there. For smaller companies, it all tends to be the giant fortune five hundreds and that the good degrades. And the these big stories of big successful Googles and Netflix, how about the other 99.9% companies that that's what I was trying to speak to and help their HR leaders. So it's out in the world now it's on. It's in print, it's an audio, there's a Kindle version. The guy reading it wasn't me. But I'm thankful that, that it got turned into an audio book.

 

Leighann Lovely  04:17

That's awesome. And you you're so you're so completely right. You know, we all hear the great stories of these amazingly huge companies being so amazing and doing such amazing things. But that's not the main population of companies that are out there. The little guys need just as much attention and well, there's a heck of a lot more little guys or midsize guys than there are monsters of companies out there. So awesome. I have admittedly not gotten the opportunity to read it. But I have definitely I'm excited to read it and you know, take a look at it. So it's great. You work with companies and their leaders to help with some of the the growing pains that happen with growth in organizations? What are some of the main challenges that you see with those organizations you work with? And how does that vary from different sized companies that you do work with?

 

Andrew Bartlow  05:15

I think there's actually a lot of consistency across size. But across geography across industry, I mean that the management challenges are not super unique, it's really more how you deal with those management challenges and the resources that you have to deal with them. So that the common theme that I see may be stronger than anything, but the so what one theme may be stronger than anything, is lack of focus, lack of clarity. Too many people at too many organizations are trying to take on too much. And when you do take that on, so this is maybe you know, number two of what I what I see a lot of is lifting and shifting, I see a lot of application of somebody else's best practices, or whatever some leader heard about, in an article they read over the weekend, or a founder group that they're a part of, or whatever company they worked at last, it's a lot of lifting and shifting, with without really thinking through what's what's right for them.

 

Leighann Lovely  06:24

That completely makes sense. A, somebody reads a book and you know, small company, and they hear oh, this really worked at this company. But what works, that's everybody's different. And when you have such vastly different cultures, from one organization to the next organization, trying to take a, you know, round peg and shove it into a square hole is just not, it's not feasible, it's not effective. And you know, I've talked about this, with many other guests, just you trying to figure out the right solution to your particular problem, there's, there's typically not just some pre packaged, and that's again, why somebody like you coming in being able to identify what that is, work with somebody. And then you mentioned that, you know, one person trying to take on so many different things that at the same time, or you know, shifting from one role to another. And I've mentioned this to other people, HR people right now are so they're spread so thin, that it seems like often things get dumped on them. And then all of a sudden, it's like, oh, I completely forgot about that, I have to take care of that. And it's not just HR professionals. Right now we were at a we're at a threshold of having the least amount of employees at almost every company trying to do the most amount of work right now. So it's very interesting. And I'm assuming that you're dealing with that on a regular basis.

 

Andrew Bartlow  07:55

Well, heck come on, I'm a founder myself, of a couple of different enterprises. So I, I see this, and I feel this and I, I need to take more my own medicine, frankly. Yeah, have have more focus, have a clear plan. I might have coined this, I'm going to say it, you can move 30 things an inch, or three things a mile. Right? In most cases, it's it's more helpful that move those three things mile, right? And then like, what should you work on what best practice is best for you. Somebody else said this context is king. So you really have to understand your own unique situation to figure out what to do about it. And so you're buying somebody's book, or boy, I used to hate Mondays, because the CEOs that I would work for would come in on Mondays with all these brand new ideas of stuff that we had to do that they heard about over the weekend. And then it was up to me to try to figure out how to talk him out of it, or how to make it work at an organization that it was never really designed to work at.

 

Leighann Lovely  09:02

Right? I had similar experience. One of the sales leaders would come in with, oh, I have this new idea on how we can be better salespeople. And then the next week, it was the next flavor of I have the greatest idea of and it was like, Can we just get through one training session and figure one thing out before we've moved on to the next thing? Because Can we just master one skill and become really good at that one thing before we try to become semi good at everything,

 

Andrew Bartlow  09:36

Which comes back to focus, right? Right. And in a lot of small businesses just can't think of anywhere this isn't true. There's a lot of stuff that has to get done. Right and some and some of those things can be done just okay. You don't have to be great at everything. But but if you're trying to get if you're trying to help a business be successful, you should probably pick Few lanes, and really, I'm gonna make some metaphors here. But you should have the express lane, where certain really important strategic things, you make sure that those get happen, that those happen, and that those happen on a timeline and don't get pushed to the side when when emergencies come up.

 

Leighann Lovely  10:17

So as a founder of People Leader Accelerator, I am sure that leaders come to you with all different challenges small, large, has the complexity of this changed over time with the increase, you know, visibility into people's lives because of technology? Or is it you know, relative to the times that we're in,

 

Andrew Bartlow  10:37

I say that the noise and the risk of distraction has definitely increased, right across all all sorts of different companies, there's still this need to ruthlessly prioritize. So it's really easy to get caught up and all the stuff that we're able to hear about with our Apple news feed or whatever is popping up in our notifications, and that the availability of information can be really distracting. And it's an it's easy to fall in love with bright, shiny objects and keeping up with the Joneses and that sort of thing. But, you know, beyond beyond that sort of increased potential for distraction, I think they're I don't know that some of the common needs, some of the common themes are, you know, leaders transitioning in their role from doer, to manager to leader, I try to help HR people elevate from service provider to designer, from like, bringing the burger to designing the menu in the experience of the restaurant, and help leaders, whether they're a CEO of a investor backed company, or whether they're an HR leader, trying to figure out a founder relationship, help them navigate relationships with their stakeholders. So has has the complexity of the world around us changed that in a in a big way? I don't know. It's it's easier to be distracted. But it's all the same problem. It's, it's different flavors of ice cream, but it's all still ice cream.

 

Leighann Lovely  12:20

Right. So have you seen a change in what leaders need? And do you think that it's directly related, you know, possibly to the pandemic? I mean, obviously, as there's been a shift with people working from home, there's been a shift with the different things that employees need from those leaders. Have you seen that those leaders are needing more guidance from from you? I mean, I would assume that this is a whole new world for so many people.

 

Andrew Bartlow  12:58

Oh, yeah. Well, for for everybody, like there have been a whole lot of global pandemics. I guess the Spanish flu was 100 years ago, or, like that. And remote work is at this level is something new, and I highlight pay transparency as being one of the drivers of the great resignation. There's, there's a lot going on. That said, I'll key in on on the word that you use need, need versus want. And I talked earlier about the distractions and the the volume of information coming at us. So like, yes, there. There's a lot going on with pandemic compliance requirements, well, who can be tested and who can come to the office or not returned to the office and remote work and comp rates and great resignations, skilled skilled labor is impossible to find, or recruit or retain nowadays. So lots of talk about all that. But I encourage leaders to think hard about what they need. What should you be working on? What is most important for you right now, and less about getting, you know, tied up and again, that that flavor of the day, or the bright shiny object? So what's really critical for your business to figure out and then don't overcomplicate it. So with that in mind with you know, I'll I guess I'll give that as a long preamble and try to answer the question around like, what didn't leaders need? I think leaders need some reflection time. I think leaders need some headspace to get re grounded in what they're trying to accomplish. And their role and their goals and their purpose and try to avoid all that noise and distraction of ping we've got a new law about you know, pandemic stuff or paying somebody new resigned or like, okay, what are we trying to do? What are the handful of most important things We need to do to accomplish that. Let's get after it. But that's what leaders need. They need more focus more focus time.

 

Leighann Lovely  15:07

So how do you, I guess, do you assist them with? how that looks? That focus time? Do you guide them in? How does that focus time? become easier? How do you create and what do you focus on in order to hone in on the things that you need for your business?

 

Andrew Bartlow  15:31

Yeah, well, I hate to be clear, I am not a guided meditation yogi. Alright, to be clear, that's not my jam.

 

Leighann Lovely  15:40

Deep breathing now. Okay, now put your hands. No, yeah,

 

Andrew Bartlow  15:44

I do live in the Bay area of San Francisco. Metro. Like there's definitely a lot. Yeah. And hey, the whole mindfulness thing and meditation like that really works for some people, and some leaders and great Go, Go do what works for you, right? What, what I what I help with is pointing out some of those obvious things. Right? Pick out your three things, you're going to move for a while. I, you know, have have the freedom be able to be able to give the straight talk to the HR leaders and CEOs and investor groups that I work with to say like, where's the list of things that are most important? How about we write it down together? Oh, look, it's 47 items. But what's most important about it out of those things, there's a really nice model by Patrick Lencioni, prolific author, Five Dysfunctions of a Team. It's got a bunch of other books out there. The latest, I think, is the advantage, where he uses the six questions for clarity. How do we behave? What what is our purpose? What's most important right now? I won't list them. All right. That feels too much like a quiz that I walked myself into. But the the point is clarity. And so how do I help leaders? I am, I'm holding their hand walking with them. Doing org planning, doing prioritization. I help a lot of my HR clients build a people plan. What are the three most important things for however many most important things for your HR organization to deliver? And how closely aligned are those things to what's most important for your company? That's often a missed connection. And then do you have the right resources, vendors dollars headcount lined up to deliver against it? So it's, it's honestly not rocket science, it's just the the ultimate collection of a lot of stubbed toes and, you know, accidents through a 25 year career of working with a bunch of different companies. And, you know, doing some of that organizational planning, a lot of organizations, nobody's really tasked with doing that. And, and it fell to me over the years. And there are a couple different models out there, there's Eos, there's gazelles, there's a bunch of different consultants that will apply their framework. But I, you know, really focus pretty practically on, let's find a short priority list. And, you know, just walk through what execution looks like.

 

Leighann Lovely  18:25

And it's great that you, you know, kind of clarify that because, you know, you walk into somebody's office and half the time you see, either stacks of Oh, that's my to do pile, that's my done pile. And that is half the battle is figuring out what is the priority, what needs to get done now, what can I push off to later. And even when those lists are made, it's, it's never ending lists. So to help somebody in a senior role to even just to help HR personnel, me who constantly is looking at the next shiny object going, Oh, I can't wait to get to that when I haven't finished the project that I'm working on. You know, previously, it my husband yells at me about that all the time. You know, hey, what about you know, the, the crap that's laying on the table that you were supposed to finish two weeks ago? And I'm like, oh, yeah, but this one looks way much more fun. And he's like, Yeah, but um, to have somebody be able to say, Okay, wait, what's the most important thing to you? What's the most important thing to the business to grow the business to make sure everybody that's creating the product for your business is being provided for that. That's half the battle to keep that going. And then obviously, growing, and there's a lot of companies out there that maybe keep it going, but don't understand what that looks like. If you are growing, and what those growing pains look like, you know, as you want to scale up and as you and you hear it all the time of companies who hit maybe a million dollar mark and then they just can't they just Just can't level up because they don't have the tools in place. And once or if they hit that 5 million mark, they don't know how to, you know, go on beat beyond that.

 

Andrew Bartlow  20:11

It's a it's at all sizes and stages I have a client working with right now, that $600 million, and they're trying to get to a billion, like, those are big numbers, right. But it's different. Like it's, I saw, actually somebody who went through my People Leader Accelerator program, just put a really thoughtful article out on LinkedIn today. And he refers to organizations like potted plants. I loved it, I heard Yeah. Alright, so here's a connection. If the, if the organization is growing, it's going to need to be repotted into a different pot over time. Otherwise, it'll die. It'll, you know, it'll outgrow the framework that it's in. And so, you know, things are different at different sizes and stages and complexity, and just knowing that, and maybe moving into the bigger pot before you absolutely need it, but not too early. Don't drop your little cactus into a giant bathtub. You know, be aware of that natural transition.

 

Leighann Lovely  21:21

Right. And wow, that's a great analogy. I When you first said that I went I don't understand. But right now, as soon as he started walking through that I went, but I also kill every plant that's in my house. So maybe I learned something from that.

 

Andrew Bartlow  21:34

I need I need to credit the author on that, Daniel Illis, VP of People Vinted, Yeah,

 

Leighann Lovely  21:39

Okay. Well, yeah, that's that's absolutely great. A great analogy. And again, yeah, I kill every plant in my house. So maybe I should read that, you know, also helped me in business, right. Okay, so many people that I have spoken with have said that the problems that we are experiencing now with everything that's going on the world would eventually have become issues for businesses, that it's it's, it would have just happened at a slower pace that the pandemic has just basically accelerated. What we are seeing in businesses, what we're seeing in will a lot of things. Furthermore, they've said that this could be a good thing, because now we're seeing a lot of the issues that would have eventually come out. A light is being shined on them with, you know, a lot of things that we haven't talked about whether that be, you know, issues in the way that HR or the issues in whatever it might be in businesses that they weren't addressing before. Do you agree that it could be a good thing that we're kind of shining a light on some of the things that would eventually have been addressed? And that?

 

Andrew Bartlow  22:50

Yeah, well, is it? Is it a good thing or a bad thing? I don't know, that's kind of a value judgment, it's definitely a thing. Like, it's, it's definitely accelerated. And that means that organizations should adapt to it, and deal with it, and try to be tried to try to move up on the curve. So you're not, you know, reactionary, and dealing with a lack of available workforce. So you know, a value judgment of good or bad, I think it kind of depends where you stand. But, you know, to give a little bit more detail on what what I'm seeing happening in the, in the workplace, I deal with a bunch of different employers through my various plates spinning. With technology, we have dramatically increased the visibility of pay rates. So you can find out what different jobs make at different places. And it's no longer just professional workers that can figure that stuff out. Right, like, you know, our early industrial manufacturing service workers that are, you know, some of the lowest paid workers in the United States, they can find out that they can make more somewhere else. And they didn't used to be able to do that before the rise of technology and, and information that way. They can also get better and more information on the quality of a workplace like think of Glassdoor and indeed an employer reviews. So they can figure out hey, is this a good place to work or not? And that, you know, so. So technology has increased transparency in the workplace. And so he, whether that's related to the pandemic or not, I think it's accelerated people looking around, looking up and trying to figure out is this the right situation? For me? I think the pandemic has been a point of reflection. For a lot of workers. Whether you're working in a cafe or you're the CEO of a big organization, you look up and you look around you say what things are different. What what do I want my situation to be? And those moments when you reflect and look around, you're frankly more likely to make a move. than you are when you're not looking around when you're just doing the work. The other big area is, is remote work. So technology certainly enabled remote work. But those core tools have been around for a long time. They just really accelerated the adoption, you know, forced by some of the stay at home orders. So, yeah, it was it was a trend. But you know, it was it was nothing like it has been over the past year or two, and maybe the years ahead. So will more employers become more purposefully hybrid, or intentionally fully distributed and let go of their commercial office leases? Yeah, well, I think the percentages will move. I mean, we'll see what that eventually looks like. But I'm certain that that movement will move faster as a result of this pandemic than it would have otherwise. So there's just lots of lots of implications that touch the world of human resources management, that brought on by this by the pandemic and technology, it affects productivity effects, performance management, learning, compensation, attraction, and retention. There's a lot going on in the HR world, related to this confluence of events and technology.

 

Leighann Lovely  26:25

Yeah, absolutely. And an interesting fact that I read was that remote workers that were polled are 22%, happier than people that are not working at home, because of the fact that they are able to do and have a higher work life balance, they're happier, but they're putting in over 40 hours, 43% more of the time than their counterparts who are working on site. And the reason that they said that they were were doing this was because one, there's no commute. So instead of having to get up and leave the house at 7:30, to make it to work, and that's been, you know, depending on where you live, you may have to leave at seven to get there at eight, you may have to leave at 7:30 to get there at eight, whatever your commute is, but no longer do they have that commute, they can get out of bed, they can have breakfast with their family, if their families there, they can drop the kids off at school, and then be in for most cases, your children are within your school district, which is usually within a certain radius of your home, they're back at home, you know, getting to work by eight o'clock is quite easy. And if you don't have to leave your house at all, getting to work by eight o'clock is very easy. So they're gaining all of this time. So all of a sudden, putting in that extra half hour extra hour extra two hours of work doesn't feel like you're putting in that extra hour or two hours of work, because you're really not. I mean, you're you would have otherwise been sitting in your car on your way to work. So having those in those individuals who are putting in that extra time is all of a sudden not not a big deal to them, because and they're 22% happier.

 

Andrew Bartlow  28:14

Yeah. Well, and maybe it has impact. This is speculation. Maybe it's impacted the number of meetings that occur because meetings now need to be scheduled over whatever platform you're using. We're using Zoom today, rather than walking around the office and collecting everybody to move into a conference room to talk about whatever. Because some thought and planning needs to be put into it. It maybe it happens less. And so people actually have more time to do the work versus talking about the work.

 

Leighann Lovely  28:45

Correct. You also don't have employees hanging out in the lunch room talking for 25 minutes about their weekend or about how their kid did this are, you know, and I was one of those employees that you know, you get me on a conversation. You? Gee, I wonder how I ended up doing a podcast. You know, I was one of those employees who would sit in chit chats about you know, how are you? How are you, you know what's going on. And I mean, think about the hours. Again, it's a natural thing you want to know your coworkers but think about the amount of hours wasted at work of coworkers just making small talk. So think about how much more productive you are. When you're at home. Even if you get up to do laundry, even if you get up to do all of these different things. And again, I'm not arguing one way or another. Okay. There are a ton of them lawyers out there who are still dug in and say we will never go remote. It just won't work for us. And again, essential employees they can't most of the essential employees, healthcare workers, police officers we can't believe be a police officer and work at home. You have to be out there. We we need you out there. We need fire men out there. We need our healthcare workers out there, and fewer, any of those, thank you for your service. Thank you for doing that. But there are a ton of positions that can be done at home. And some employers are still saying, No, we won't do that. But the technology is now available. And to say that you're disconnected from the world, we are very much connected right now having a conversation, you're in San Francisco, I'm in Wisconsin. And yet, we are still finding a way to connect through a platform. And I don't know how I went off on this tangent, but I do have a tendency to do that.

 

Andrew Bartlow  30:37

Well, hey, I'd love to, I'd love to follow up on a couple of those comments. And that is that with remote work, there's still a value in building relationships. Most thing still get done in organizations through relationships, and who knows who, versus a really clear process flow, or list of instructions. And so, you know, knowing who you're working with, and you know, having a connection with people that gives you more meaning that gives you more purpose, those are all kind of fluffy things that are hard, they're hard to pin down to hard economic value, I'd suggest that there's the Yeah, as more organizations move to more distributed environments, there will be more intentional gatherings rather than the drop ends. So that that's probably useful, and probably money better spent than fancy office space. And in one particular geography, I'd also we're making predictions now. Alright, so here, we're doing this in 2022, I think there's going to be an increased focus on worker productivity, and performance. So all these people that are working somewhere where their managers can't see what they're doing. Yes, maybe they're working more hours, yes, maybe they are more productive. But there's very little right now to ascertain whether that's true or not. And so I think there will be a rise of tools and technologies and hopefully not like nanny cams and people's home offices. Right, it has areas that but I think there'll be a lot of interest in figuring out are my workers is my team working on the right stuff, to ensure that we get stuff done if we're not all together where we can follow up with each other?

 

Leighann Lovely  32:32

Yeah, and, you know, right now, I know that when one of my close friends, she's in accounting, and I know that when she is her computer is idle, her company knows. So I mean, there are some form of that. Now, there is some way didn't. I mean, I have teams, I have teams on my work computer. And when I'm away from my desk, it goes to an idle mode and my boss, well, my boss knows if I'm now I don't have a boss who's like, Hey, where are you? You know, not that I have a problem, hey, I'm at a meeting, you know, I'm in. For my day job. I'm in sales. So I'm all over the place today. I was taking meetings in my car. I mean, it's, it's the way of the world when you have the ability to do technology that way. Now, I've been in a sales role for many years of my career. So I'm used to being out on the road. I'm used to being you know, half the time, not in the office anyways. So, but yes, what you just said about technology, being able to, I hope it doesn't get to a point where it's a nanny cam type thing where it's watching me sit at my desk, that would make me wildly uncomfortable. But but you never know.

 

Andrew Bartlow  33:54

Screenshots there are technologies that will take screenshots of your of your computer and, and flag if it looks like you're on a YouTube site or whatever, doing something you're not supposed to be doing. Yeah, I am in no way advocating for these things. Please, please don't take that audience as my recommendation. This is more of a prediction as as remote work and distributed work, increase. And, you know, that becomes the expectation of the workforce, you'll have a tougher time recruiting people and retaining people if you don't allow more of that. I mean, there will still be companies that are fully together that that's fine. But there'll be an increased focus on on managing that distributed workforce.

 

Leighann Lovely  34:43

Yeah, no, I completely agree. And maybe you just came up with the next brilliant idea. Open up a company create the technology to be able to No, I'm no, I wouldn't want to do that.

 

Andrew Bartlow  34:54

Not that hard. I'm in I'm just outside Silicon Valley. I had a call with a Ukrainian product. design engineering firm just before this call, it's not that hard. Everybody's doing it.

 

Leighann Lovely  35:06

Yep. Yeah, technology popping up everywhere new platforms, new recruiting platforms popping up everywhere. I hear that one all the time. Yeah, it's, uh, you know, and people ask me, How do you beat the bottom when you apply to a position? I don't know it, you end up in a virtual stack of resumes. That's why I send you to a live recruiter who then sends you to companies. Okay. Anyways, now, we are pretty much at time. So this is the final question, this question that I'm asking everybody. If you could pinpoint a time period in your career that made a huge difference in your life or career path? When would that be and why?

 

Andrew Bartlow  35:48

Yeah, so I had a really major formative experience early in my career. It was my second job out of grad school, I left Pepsi to become head of HR at some tiny technology professional services company. So I was head of HR at a startup at 24-23 years old. And we took that company, I was hired number 20. We took it to about 120 employees globally in less than a year. And then I mean, this, this definitely dates me. But then the.com crash happened, and completely went out of business. They went from 120 to zero. So talk about a tremendous formative experience lasted a year, we went from 20 to 120, we went from local to national to global, and then we went out of business. So during that time, I, I learned how to partner with finance. So we were doing all the workforce planning, we figured out we couldn't make payroll, had to talk to the CEO founder about that, I've learned how to interact with a business leader, a co founder, which is a very different animal than a air, quote, professional founder that grew up inside of a of a company that somebody else started, I learned prioritization at that small company, because everything needed to be done and everything was on fire. And by the bottom line, I just had received a lot of hard knocks and stubbed toes along the way. And it makes a story that I'm telling 20 years later, so that that was a really formative experience for me that that helped accelerate my career path through some of those hard knocks.

 

Leighann Lovely  37:39

Wow. 23 You were 23 when you were the director of HR? Wow, that is an experience. And I'm sure one that really launched you into, you know, a whole lot of new understanding of things. So thank you for sharing that. And Andrew, thank you so very much for coming on today. If somebody wants to get a hold of you or reach out to you about, you know, well, your book or your services, how would they go about doing that?

 

Andrew Bartlow  38:11

Great. Well, thanks for the underhanded pitch. I'll try to hit it out of the park. LinkedIn is a great place to find me there are not that many Andrew Barlow's. I also have a website for the development program for HR leaders. People Leader Accelerator I'm sure it'll be in the show notes. And then I have my own personal single shingle consulting firm and it's called Series B is in boy or Bartlow. Consulting Series B. consulting.com.

 

Leighann Lovely  38:44

Perfect. Well, thank you again. It's been awesome. Thank you. Thank you again for listening to Let's Talk HR. I appreciate your time and support. Without you the audience this would not be possible. So don't forget that if you enjoyed this episode, to follow us, like us or share us. Have a wonderful day.

 

TO contact Andrew Bartlow,

Linkedin - linkedin.com/in/bartlow

 

Website for the Development Program for HR Leaders People Leader Accelerator and B Series Consulting -

seriesBconsulting.com   

wisegrowth.net 

 

Direct e-mail- andrew.bartlow@seriesbconsulting.com

 

Huge Thank you to Irene for connecting Andrew with Leighann

 

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