Episode 14 - Good Friend Inc - Denise and Chelsea

Two amazing women with a mission, one close to the heart and for an amazing cause. 

Denise Schamems and Chelsea Budde Co-Founders of Good Friend Inc. 

Leighann Lovely  00:15

Let's Talk HR is a place for HR professionals, business owners and employees to come together and share experiences and talk about what's working and what's not. How we can improve best practices so that companies can better attract, train and retain all generations of workers. We all know that there has been a huge shift in what people want. generations are coming together, more than ever, on what's important. Mental health has been brought to the forefront of everyone's mind. Let's humanize these conversations. Let's talk about how the economy has been impacted and what needs to happen to find a balance. I'm your host Leighann lovely. So let's get this conversation started. And remember, if you enjoyed this episode, follow us like us and share us.

 

Leighann Lovely  01:05

This is going to be an awesome episode today. I am talking with two amazing women. In fact, this company was referenced in Episode 4 when I spoke with Alejandra Fraga good friend, Inc. It is a 501 C three public charity dedicated to creating autism awareness, teaching acceptance of differences and fostering empathy for individuals with autism. Both of these women through good friend Inc. have provided Autism Awareness, Acceptance and Empathy training for more than 54,000 K4 through 10th grade students in Wisconsin since its inception in 2007 I have Denise Schamens joining me and Chelsea Budde. Denise has three children two that are neurodivergent. Due to her firsthand experiences, she served for 10 years as a school district family engagement liaison for CESA1, she has served as cofounder and creative director. Her passion lies in the creative pursuit within and outside the organization. As creative director, she is a four time short film director, editor, a theatrical set designer, a university guest lecturer, and a frequent conference presenter in 2013. She became the first generation of facilitator for Sibshops, and has since led the good friend team in providing eight years of connected sibling workshops. Her latest short film has been screened in five different film festivals throughout the country and Canada. Receiving three separate awards she loves connecting people and being connected. Chelsea is the executive director and co founder of good friend Inc. Her work inspiration comes from her two neurodivergent young adult children whose journey has taught not only Chelsea but so many others in addition to being a trainer. She's also a writer, university guest lecturer, and conference presenter. While her bachelor's degree comes from St. Norbert College, her continuing education over the last 14 years with good friend ink has yielded the most valuable lessons. Welcome Denise and Chelsea. I'm so excited to have you both here with me today.

 

Denise Schamens  03:47

Thanks, Leighann.

 

Leighann Lovely  03:49

So you both are so amazing. And what you do Good Friend Inc. is an amazing, an amazing organization that provides so much good information to the world. I would love to have you both tell me a little bit about how you started on this mission. Why don't you go first Denise?

 

Denise Schamens  04:07

Okay, I was like, usually we like, you know, when we're in person we can like look at each other who's gonna take this doesn't work so well this way? Um, well, you know, I know we're gonna get into some more meat about Good Friend, but just like the origin of how it began, I can tell you almost 15 years this August. I had gotten to the point as a parent liaison, and I think that was talked about in my bio, I was doing a support group for the District of Waukesha. And I was trying to have it be a meaningful group. And I knew there was over 150 families in the walkshop district that needed some kind of special education support. And so I I really wanted to, you know, make an impact there and I had been doing that for three years. And it was only getting the same nine to 12 parents to show up. And it was so aggravating for me. Because I wanted to, yeah, just have more of an impact my son was in first grade. And I really thought that it was time to figure out this, you know, a different way. And so I had been going into my son's classroom, and I'd sit down with his, his classmates, and I tell them about his autism and how it affected him. Sam's autism affects him mostly in his communication ability. But at that time, he was also having a lot of regulation issues and sensory issues. And so for me, I felt like I had to do a lot of explaining so that they could just understand how they could reach out or support or be a friend. And so I was doing that. And, you know, they all had such great questions. And the teachers were engaged, like, everybody was super engaged in this casual way of educating. And so I kept noodling on that and like, Alright, how can I, you know, how can this get better knowing that our district only had one guidance counselor that was traveling to all of the schools, and at the time, we had 17 elementary schools? And I'm like, how are these kids getting their questions answered, It just was frustrating to me. So I kept here I have this support group that's not really doing anything. And here, I go into the classroom. And it's like, something's bubbling here. And so I had this mom that kept coming, one of my regulars in the in the group. And she was just so opposite of me. So my background is art and fine arts and commercial art. And she comes in with binders, right? She comes in with all these resources to share with the families and I'm like, Oh, gee, so I have to talk to her. So that was Chelsea and I, you know, I said, we need to meet for coffee, I've got a little idea. I just want to throw past you. And she's like, okay, and I'll she'll tell you her side of it. But that's what we did. We met and had coffee. And, you know, the rest is history after that.

 

Leighann Lovely  07:03

Awesome, Chelsea, I'd love to hear your side.

 

Chelsea Budde  07:07

Yeah, that's, you know, pretty much without being inside Denise's head before I was coming to said meetings with said binder. I, had two kids at the time who were on the autism spectrum. And I had been working at a public relations agency up until my son was about 15 months old. And it was clear that I wasn't going to be able to stay working. And so I stayed home to be with my kiddos. And as they were going through intensive in home therapy, I was really looking for other families to connect with I had good fortune of being able to be a stay at home mom, when my kids were young, I was able to go to a lot of conferences, a lot of kind of continuing education opportunities and soak up all this information. And the internet wasn't nearly as robust, you know, 20 years ago, as it is now. So I did, I had my binders full of resources and color coded tabs because I thought, you know, I've had the luxury of being able to track all this information down. And I want to make sure that I can share it with other families who aren't as fortunate. So that was kind of my idea. I was coming to this, all of Denise's meetings armed because I was going to make sure that people had what they needed. And hopefully connect with some other families as well. So yeah, when it was getting to a point where my youngest was going to be heading to kindergarten, and I was already kicking around career wise, like, what do I do? Do I go back to the PR firm that I was writing for before I was raising these humans, and that didn't really resonate with me all that well, I knew what the culture was at that workplace. And it was not one that was conducive to being a parent at all, quite frankly, let alone a parent to kids who were neurodivergent. So when Denise approached me like, Hey, do you think we should make a movie about autism for kids without autism? Like, yeah, that sounds perfect. Let's make a curriculum, lets do a Nonprofit. And, you know, of course, we had no idea how to do any of those things. They just seem like really good ideas. And so that, you know, it was the summer of research the summer of 2007, before we incorporated as a nonprofit, and yeah, and like Denise said, the rest is history.

 

Leighann Lovely  09:22

And that's, that's amazing. Coming together with obviously, an understanding that you're you're doing this because you have common ground, you're experiencing life, and you're experiencing it together yet obviously separate you have separate families, but common ground so often brings people together because you have an understanding of what the two of you are experiencing at home and you you want to educate others because you know that that's the human side of life. You want other people to understand your children and what they're experiencing to better their lives, I mean, that's just, it's amazing. I just, I think the two of you are just so awesome and, and what you do.

 

Denise Schamens  10:10

When I'm thinking of something Leighann, as you're saying that like when, you know, tell us what brought us together was autism and our children, but what kept what helps, you know, foster this nonprofit was our positive outlook on them, and wanting to wanting to change, you know, the future for them and wanting to have an impact. And I think that has helped us remain this long, because we're, you know, we're not woe is me, you know, I have this terrible burden to live with. It's more like, you know, what, this is great. How can we, you know, help people really get it the way we get it. And we had that commonality, which I think is a very strong point.

 

Leighann Lovely  10:54

Right? I mean, and I remember as, as a child, not understanding any different child, you know, you you, as a young kid, elementary school, if there was a child who was different from you, most parents didn't, they didn't even know how to explain that to their child's whether that be somebody who is hearing impaired somebody who had vision, you know, loss, whether that be just the simple, and I did, I went to elementary school with a with another child who had that was hearing impaired. And I remember them trying to come in and explain that, but we, we, as children didn't know how to connect with this other students, and to have somebody come in and say, Okay, here's how you can be a good friend, to my son, would have been so beneficial, not only to myself, but to that other child to not feel alienated to not feel like he couldn't reach out or communicate or, and there were ways that we could have reached out and been there or become friends had we been given the tools to do so. And it's, and again, this is, it's a symptom of the times, you know, we can only do as good as we can with the information that we have. There's, I'm not faulting anybody at that time. It's just, but now we've come so far in how we can teach and how we can educate and the knowledge and the understanding that we have, and I commend you for what you do. And, and, you know, now the studies that that are out there are offering so much more information and allowing children to be able to, you know, understand so much more. And so that's it's just, it's amazing. It's absolutely amazing. So, as you have watched your children go, you've also witnessed many other children on the spectrum grow and become adults, you know, that are entering the workforce, you know, do you have plans to educate employers? And, you know, how, what does that what does that look like for you?

 

Denise Schamens  13:09

Exciting stuff

 

Denise Schamens  13:12

It is, it's really, you know, I think Denise and I have been talking about this as parents for a while, right, you know, you start talking about this transition that happens in education in the state of Wisconsin, we start talking about that transition, like what happens after high school, and how do we prepare for it, that conversation starts when students with individualized education plans are 14 years old. And IT services can go through the public education system until they're 21. And then there's, you know, somewhere in between that 18 to 21 range, there's what's called a service cliff. And it's as if these humans just come in, kind of fall off of a system. And if you as a family aren't really deliberate and making sure they get engaged in the adult system. There's nothing left. And so we were trying to figure out, Okay, here's how we're engaging as parents, how can we engage as an organization and it's such a different world. But it's ferrets, when we were going through it, we're trying to wrap our head around it just from a family standpoint, I can tell you at one point, I thought I had this transition thing figured out, and then all of a sudden my son's Medicaid stopped accepting claims. I'm like, what, what happened there? So that was a six month process of trying to get that back on track. So when it came to, what are we doing in schools? And how do we do that with employers, we realized that we were just overthinking the whole process. What it's really about what good friends always been about is taking the people who surround someone on the autism spectrum, and making sure they better understand autistic neurology, and how to interact with humans who wrote who are neurodivergent and we're just going to basically be doing the same thing for employers. Now, employers are kind of in a mindset, some of them not enough, frankly, have diversity, equity and inclusion So when employers are thinking about DEI, sometimes they're just thinking kind of about gender equality or ethnic and racial equality. And we want them to think about neurodiversity. So about brain based equality, and what kind of accommodations do we need to do to make sure that people who are neurodivergent people who are on the autism spectrum, feel like they belong there and have a place and have a way to be able to showcase their abilities. So that's kind of where good friend is going in the employer space is making sure that, you know, recruiters are thinking about autistic talents, and hiring managers are figuring out how to onboard them. And the people who are working with an autistic colleague know how to interact with them. So this is the good stuff because this is the rest of the lifespan. And Sad to say, at this point, only four out of five autistic adults is employed. And so that's just no good. And we know as a community, we can do better. And we know that good friend can be part of helping the community do better.

 

Leighann Lovely  16:01

You said in there a couple of times how somebody can be prepared working with, you know, somebody who is neurodivergent. But I'm assuming there's no cookie cutter answer to that, just like working with any human. There's no cookie cutter answer, everybody is different. So where do you begin?

 

Denise Schamens  16:24

Well, I think what Chelsea was saying is, you know, we're we're using the same framework that we use in our education services. And so we, you know, we name it, we call it autism, and then we talk about all the areas that someone could be affected by that or impacted by that. So that could be communication that could be social, emotional, that could be sensory, that could be just all those different ways that we sit in a space and have to work, understanding where and how they're experiencing that space, and being respectful of it. And then I think the other thing that we're trying to help employers see is the value in hiring somebody with maybe a little bit different perspective, and a different way of looking at things. So seeing some value there, and then also creating a safe place for them to disclose. So that it's okay for them, you know, they're not going to be passed over for a job promotion, they're not going to you know, because of this, it's like, we just want to somewhat normalize it so that they can all be, you know, that's what we do in the schools. It's like, we're all different. We're all experiencing things in different ways. So let's talk about the way that we're experiencing some of those things. So it's just kind of, you know, getting in there deep and talking about in really understanding how that individual experiences the world.

 

Leighann Lovely  17:55

Okay, so it's more of the end for many of many people who might be listening, they may not be aware of what it even means to be on the spectrum, to be, you know, to have autism, right. So tell me some of the things that as an employer, you may have to be prepared for.

 

Chelsea Budde  18:17

So the social communication piece is usually the biggest one that people are paying attention to. I mean, when you think about how autism is diagnosed, it's not like there's a brain scan or something like that, there's no physical features that you can point to, as to whether someone is on the spectrum or not. So it's kind of a subjective assessment. And the diagnostic criteria were created by people not on the autism spectrum and without their input. So there are a lot of people who come at their autism understanding and perhaps even diagnosis or not diagnosis from different angles. But social communication seems to be a hallmark. And there's kind of like a medical model of disability and a social model of disability. So from the medical model standpoint, we talk about deficits in social communication. So, you know, maybe someone on the autism spectrum as a child doesn't have many peer relationships, maybe their social relationships are either with children much younger than they are or with adults, because adults are less judgmental, and younger children have a social competency that's better acquainted with what they're experiencing in their own bodies and minds. So, you know, that could be part of it. And then the communication part being different. So for some people on the autism spectrum, you know, conversation skills are really tough verbal processing might be delayed, it might take longer to understand what someone is saying and then to be able to formulate a reliable spoken response. So maybe part of their communication style is they prefer to text or they prefer to send an email, you know, maybe live spoken language. which is difficult, maybe eye contact is difficult with spoken language. And so they need to look away in order to gather their verbal thoughts to be able to share with somebody else. So I think that's a big thing when we talk about even interviewing, right? How does somebody interview if eye contact is tricky? And if live questions with spontaneous answers are required, that might be really tricky. So another one that Denise brought up is kind of that sensory experience. So many people on the autism spectrum, because their brains are wired differently, are going to experience sensory input differently. And so we have to think about, you know, what kind of things do we have in our work environment, that might be causing problems for people on the autism spectrum, and that work environment might be a barrier to them, you know, showing up with their best selves or being able to demonstrate their best work. So I think those are two big considerations that employers and colleagues and people on the autism spectrum themselves are going to have conversations about in the process.

 

Leighann Lovely  21:05

You know and it's, it's interesting, you say, work environment, because, you know, in today's world, you know, somebody who's interested in computer, somebody who's interested in any, anything that can be done via remote, could be very beneficial for for them, because now they are communicating quite a bit over email over all of the things that you just mentioned, you also have that safe distance of being on a team's zoom call. Have you seen that this is that this could possibly be a good thing for some individuals.

 

Denise Schamens  21:46

I think there's been articles and studies that have been done on this actually, that show, like, you know, we've been spending so much time saying you must be in an office, and the pandemic happened, and no one could be in an office, and everyone had to do these kinds of things. And these are accommodations that people with disabilities, not just autism have been asking for forever. And so to find out that this is a better way, for a lot of people, not just autistic or disabled people, I think has been very enlightening to everyone who said, Oh, no, we can't make that accommodation, that's unreasonable.

 

Denise Schamens  22:18

Now, there's so many barriers to being in person in you know, in a workplace for, like, my son's not going to be able to drive so he's not going to be able to drive himself to his job. So you know, when you're looking at before pre pandemic, when we were looking at trying to get him to employment, if it wasn't us, dropping them off, what our options, you know, you've got some taxi services, and Uber and things like that, but then you're paying just as much as they're making in that day, to get them to that job. And that's just not, that's just not gonna sustain itself. Right. And so we so I think the pandemic helped in a lot of ways, you know, for individuals that can't do all or can't participate in person in that way. And now they can participate in a space that is accepting and is safe and is set up for them. So yeah, has a lot to do, I think with the success.

 

Leighann Lovely  23:15

Yeah. And you know, recently, I would love to hear what your thoughts are on this. Recently, there has been so many, so much more talk of people coming out with a wide variety of disabilities have a wide variety of mental health, a wide, so many people are starting to have these conversations, and I'm hearing more and more people who are talking about the fact that, yes, I'm on the spectrum, and not not just people who are people who are wildly or how do I say this, I'm extremely successful, that you never would have thought, Oh, you're you're running your own chain restaurant, and you're on the spectrum. And again, that sounds I feel like I've just insulted somebody in some way. Because it's not that I don't think that somebody who's on the spectrum is capable, they're 100% capable. There's all different ranges. But it's just it's kind of an eye opener to go, oh, that that's amazing. And now people are starting to talk about it. They're starting to talk about, you know, but we also have a better understanding of you can, being on the spectrum doesn't mean that you have a disability that stops you from being able to function, it just means and what I'm hearing from you is that your brain thinks or works differently than what we as a society has classified as normal. But in reality, what is normal? I mean,

 

Chelsea Budde  24:55

that's the million dollar question isn't Leighann

 

Denise Schamens  24:58

Right, its a Dryer setting, I think that's a popular phrase. Just a dryer setting,

 

Leighann Lovely  25:03

Right? Yes. That's a great one. Yeah, yeah, it's I mean, and I, personally, I've had I went through therapy for years, and I use the topic that I used to walk in and ask my therapist is, is this the way that I'm feeling right now? Is this normal? And you'd go? Well, I don't know. Is it? Is it feel normal to you? And I hate when you say that to me. I don't know. Is that asking you is this a normal feeling? And he goes, I can't answer that for you. You have to figure out if it's normal. And I'm like, right. Okay, let me rephrase. Is this the socially acceptable, normal? And he's like, Well, I don't know, is it and I'm like, Ah, this conversations go nowhere. But it is the reality of the world we're living in now. There, I don't know that we actually have a normal anymore.

 

Denise Schamens  26:00

I think it's really exciting. I think it's super exciting, that autistics are, are finding their voice and are feeling safe and comfortable enough to disclose that. And I think we couldn't be at a better point. To be rolling into this territory as an organization, I think it's the timing is just perfect.

 

Leighann Lovely  26:21

It is. And this conversation should have been happening, like so many other conversations that should have been happening. Years and years ago, I know that the first time I ever knew that anything like autism existed was what the movie with Rain Man. I think that was the first time I had ever known, like, Oh, what is? What is this all about? And then, and then that movie went away, you know, didn't go away. But you know, kind of the popularity of that died down and then you never had anybody talk about it again. And it's like, why not?

 

Chelsea Budde  26:57

You know, but it's, it's important. And I think, you know, Denise is pointing to like the cultural shift that's been happening, right. So just like you said, Leighann, with mental health issues, and everyone being more willing to talk about mental health, health issues, especially over the course of the pandemic, the last couple of years, it's forcing us to realize that everybody has something going on, whether it's with them individually, maybe they're a caretaker or a loved one to someone who's struggling with a mental health issue. And by talking about what, you know, pre pandemic was 15% of the population experiencing now they're saying 60% of the population is experiencing some sort of diagnosable mental health issue. That's a huge percentage. And so for us to not be talking about it doesn't do anyone any favors. And so if we keep changing the culture to one of psychological safety to one where you can bring your authentic self, you don't have to mask, that's something that people on the autism spectrum are talking about how exhausting it is, to pretend to be neurotypical, to try to show up the way that their neuro majority peers want them to show up, it's not going to allow them to do their best work. And so you know, to be able to come into a space and go, Look, I can't wear this uniform, I can't have these lights, I can't have this chair, and I can't have your music. And to be able to explain that and say this is because of my neurology is only going to make it better for everybody. Because, you know, autistic people can't change their brain wiring, and we shouldn't expect them to there should be no part of us, that's asking them to change who they are, to be able to bring their best work.

 

Leighann Lovely  28:39

Right. And we've been making concessions for other disabilities for for as long as I can remember, you know, if you want to hire, or buildings are required, and have been required to have a wheelchair ramp for as long as I can remember, certain certain buildings, you know, government buildings, they're required to have. It's it's so why have we only been making concessions for that? Why have we only been making concessions for certain things, but not for other things that have existed for just as long? Right? I mean, it's, it's, and I have seen companies go above and beyond for, you know, employees who have come forward and say I have an I am trying to think of I had met a woman and she she told me right off the bat that she had to it's a sense or it's a sensory thing in the way that she hears things and they actually created in her office, she was all enclosed in it was all glass. It was all enclosed, so that the noise wouldn't bother her. You know, companies have made concessions make concessions all the time. But there are certain population of people who are forgotten about

 

Denise Schamens  29:56

Well in that in that example that you gave, that's awesome. ously a safe place to ask for those accommodations, right? And that's what we're trying to change. We're trying to help them understand that you these are the things that you can do to help make it be a safe place to disclose that, then you can get the information for each individual and what they personally need as an accommodation. And, you know, then the rest you can just handle I mean, that's just that place, obviously, was a safe place to do so.

 

Leighann Lovely  30:27

Right? Yeah, right. And more and more companies need to realize that you can hire great people, there are great people available for work, and right and how we need good people. Yeah. You know, and as a, as obviously, a recruiter who's doing this all the time I hear company, well, there's no people, well, there are people, but you have to one be willing to train and companies that I don't have time to train, well, you're going to have to make time. Sorry, but you're, if you don't make the time now, you you may not be in business a year from now, because you don't have anybody to run your, your production line, you got to you got to make time, you got to figure out, you know, get your priorities straight here. Make time,

 

Denise Schamens  31:15

If we're forward facing as, as an employer, with being safe and being accommodating, you're going to retain though, you're gonna retain all your employees, like who would want to leave that if they know that their employer is looking out for them, and isn't gonna hold something over them or, you know, judge them for whatever they're going through, that's like, across the board, you're gonna retain, you're gonna have an amazing team, right? So it's like, it's gonna cross over into all your employees, everyone's gonna benefit from being inclusive and being forward facing with belonging and acceptance,

 

Leighann Lovely  31:54

Right, and the companies that are investing the money now are going to reap the benefits year after year after year after year. But it's so hard to, you know, go in and pitch the, you need to put the money up. And I understand there are a lot of companies that have been struggling because of the pandemic and, you know, talking to them about, you need to change your culture, you need to hire somebody to help you change the culture, if you can't do it on your own, you know, you need to invest in your company, some companies, they just literally don't have the money, but the companies that are doing it, they're going to reap the reward over the next 1015 20 years, because they're gonna see that they are retaining employees, they are getting employees that want to work for them. They're the employees that are working, are telling their friends that this is a great company, I can be myself. Either way, I don't have to do that exhausting thing of pretending that I am somebody that I'm not. And I have experienced that I'd have to No, put on that face and pretend that I'm somebody that I'm not and going home and being so emotionally exhausted, that there were days that I just couldn't even get myself to go into the office because it is exhausting. And I can't imagine what individuals with autism go through trying to put on that face, trying to be something that they're not.

 

Chelsea Budde  33:17

Right, it's just I want to I just wanted to circle back for a minute Lian on the training idea. And I think there's something that not a whole lot of employers know about or take advantage of. And the Department of Workforce Development, Division of Vocational Rehabilitation, has a work experience program. And this is usually, you know, youth with disabilities. But these services, if you need DVR services, as long as you qualify as a person with a disability, you're eligible for employment services, and that includes vocational training. And that includes this concept of a work experience. So you can come in as someone who wants to kind of try on a position. So let's say it is in manufacturing, for example, and you are looking for someone to work online. And someone with a disability like autism is willing to try on what manufacturing might be like for them. The employer of record is the persons with a disability. It's the DVR client that they're working with. So that job developer is the one paying that employee's wages while they're learning on the job. So and sometimes that person might be supported by a job coach, that job coach is also covered by DVR funds. And so this could last up to 12 weeks. So, you know, let's say in the case of my son, for example, he started out with a DVR work experience and had a job coach and was kind of learning how to do the job, eight weeks and he was functioning independently. And so, you know, I approached the employer and I said, Hey, this was at this time, this was a summer opportunity. So why don't you hire him for the rest of the summer? And so, you know, they kind of went back and discussed and they're like, why would we just hire him for the rest of the summer, he fits in great here, he knows how to do the job, he's doing it independently, let's just make it an outright hire. And so then, you know, by the time he was 10 weeks into that work experience, he started to go through the same kind of hiring and onboarding process that any other employee would. And then the employer of record at that point when he had completed became the company that he had been with at that point for nearly 12 weeks. So I think that's a something that employers really ought to consider is working with DVR and job developers to find people with disabilities who are looking for jobs, and they need an opportunity to kind of try something on. And so that goes on both sides, right, the the employer is trying on that employee, the prospective employee is trying on that employer to see if it's a good fit.

 

Leighann Lovely  35:57

And that's awesome. I've connected some companies with with them, myself, and because they were interested in learning more about that, that, you know, program, I will put their information in the show notes. So if anybody is interested in reaching out directly to them, I will make sure that their their informations in the show notes, because they are they're truly it's an amazing program that that is run. So yeah, it's just great. It's an awesome program, that, that individuals have to be able to try out new things and see if it's the right opportunity for them and an amazing opportunity for an employer to, you know, see if they can find qualified individuals who are would would be great at their company. So yeah, Chelsea, thanks for for bringing that up. Because, yeah, it's just, it's, it's an amazing program, both for both parties. So and you brought up you brought up your, your son, so I want to know, how are your How are your children doing?

 

Denise Schamens  37:05

Um, well, honestly, I, you know, I can add to the job experiences, my son Sam, has had, I think a total of four different work experiences. One was in the food industry, and the two other ones were in manufacturing, so some office work and some line work. And honestly, he like, did great and, and had offers in two of them, two of the four. And so he just recently accepted the fourth offer. And so now he's employed, doing data entry for an environmental engineering company. And he loves it. And I found out that he's been telling people at school, the school that he goes to a vocational school, that he's been sharing that he's really enjoying being there. And you know, what was unique about his work experiences? The the first manufacturing one that he did you know, you he had to go through all the safety protocol, he had to take the safety tests, you know, make sure you don't get run over by a forklift. And, you know, where are you standing and have your steel toed shoes and all that kind of stuff. And he did all that passed with flying colors. And the only issue that they had, they loved him. But they didn't extend an offer because he couldn't work an eight hour shift. So that brought up some some interesting perspectives. When I put my good friend head on, because then I think about maybe, you know, maybe they can't work a full shift right away, maybe we have to do a job share kind of situation, and work them up to that, because honestly, he's never done anything for eight hours straight. You know, so that's something that has to be learned. And it takes some time. So I'm happy to say that now he's working four days a week for three hours. And then we're going to slowly start advancing him and giving him more time. So yeah, that's where he's at. I'm pretty proud of them.

 

Leighann Lovely  39:09

That's amazing. That's awesome. That's so great. Chelsea, what about you?

 

Chelsea Budde  39:16

So I have two human beings on the spectrum. My 23 year old has been working at that same place where he started his work experience when he was in high school. And he's really built quite a community there. It was interesting because he, he works in a Furniture Warehouse. And we recently had some furniture delivered by this company. And my husband was chatting with the guys who were setting up the bedroom set and, you know, he said, Yeah, actually, my son works for Steinhafel. Oh really? What's his name? And I got to chatting. Oh, does that guy wear suspenders? Yes, yes. I like that guy. He's quiet but he's a hard worker. I like that guy. So you know, he's really created a community there and his actual I thought his career aspirations were going to be in what he was really good at, which was graphic design. And so he got a Technical Certificate in desktop publishing and digital production. And so I kind of thought he was going to end up doing, you know, perhaps some sort of marketing, printing, you know, T shirts or water bottles or something like that. And, you know, doing that kind of arts and setting up those kinds of machines. And he really looks at his creative time is just his free time, like, this is just a hobby, this is not something that he wants to make a career out of this point. He's very happy working his nine and a half hours a week in the Furniture Warehouse, he likes that he doesn't have to get up early in the morning. He doesn't want to work more than two and a half hours at a time. So I think a lot of us would be like, sounds like a good life. But I You know what, this is where he's at right now. So we'll work up to some other stuff at some point. My youngest is 20 years old. And Noey, identifies as non binary from a gender standpoint. So I'm going to use Noey's preferred pronouns, are they them in there? Noey's a junior right now studying music and animation. So went to an arts college in Chicago. And, you know, at first we were concerned, like, could Noey, we do a full time four year program and advocate for themselves? And, you know, live on campus in the South Loop of Chicago? Like, how is all that going to work out? And, of course, that was we were thinking about those questions before the pandemic started. And then, you know, two thirds into their freshman year, all heck broke loose. But you know, now he's figuring it out. And I think this is such an interesting time, this transition time of life is trying to, you know, figure out can you work while you're a full time student? And what can you do? Can you work 60 hours a week over the summer, like some of your peers do? Are you going to burn out? Are you willing to work a $10 an hour job? Or are you looking for something more? And what is that going to mean for your motivation for your education? So yeah, Noey at a point where they're, you know, looking at a little more than two and a half semesters left of school and trying to figure out what comes after that. Internships? Noey loves the city. So living in Chicago? I don't know. So far, so good.

 

Leighann Lovely  42:27

So Noey, is on their own in Yeah, Chicago. Wow, that is awesome.

 

Chelsea Budde  42:34

Yeah, that living in a studio apartment, because what nobody has realized about themselves is they cannot have roommates. So Noey has always been a kind of human that needs to cocoon to recover, mostly from kind of the sensory input and the social emotional toll that interacting with other humans takes during the day. Plus know he has ADHD too. So the executive function part is really hard. So when mom rolls up on noise apartment and sees the what mom describes as disaster, right? I just want to clean it up and get everything back to a space where it looks like they could function. But you know,

 

Leighann Lovely  43:16

That's a typical college student, though.

 

Denise Schamens  43:19

My husband's apartment was horrendous when I met

 

Chelsea Budde  43:21

Yes. Yeah. Really gross. So but but yes, Noey is, is doing it all on their own going to classes on their own submitting their own work. And you know, I couldn't help knowing with anything if I tried. I don't know anything about music or animation. And, you know, the other interesting thing about Noey Is there a synesthesia, which means that they combine senses. And so they sort of understood that a little bit in high school the first time, I realized that that was what was going on with them was they're like, oh, my gosh, you're listening to radio on the way to school. And you're like, mom isn't a song so yellow? And I'm like, I? What do you mean? Isn't this song yellow? Like, it's not called yellow? It's not by a group that has yellow in it. Like, I have no idea what you're talking about mom, the song? Can't you see all the yellow? No, sweetheart. It's a song. But you know, no, he just assumed that everyone could combine senses like that, that they could see music and color, that they could smell words. I mean, I I have no idea. So numbers have personalities. I have no idea what to tell you. But these are all things that go on in his brain. And now think about that, right? Think about your noise professor. Right. And you're trying to teach a zoom class on music, and you're supposed to pay attention to a certain bar of music, and the lyrical overlay. And no, we just had to kind of tap out from a class and be like, Look, I smell what you're doing. I see what you're doing. I taste what's going on. I can't do it. I need a break. And you know, so just turn the camera off muted. Walked away for five minutes paste in their little studio apartment. Breathe. Grab it. cube to reset their brain. They hold the ice cube when they're feeling anxious. And then came back, turn the camera back on. Okay, cool. It's cool. This was too much.

 

Leighann Lovely  45:10

That is. Oh my gosh, that would be massive overload for my brain. i Wow.

 

Denise Schamens  45:22

Right? Yeah, it's much. And honestly, I can relate a lot of what Chelsea said about no way because I as a creative, I'm kind of borderline on some of that stuff. Like I can see the numbers as personalities I can I can relate to songs having a color or a feel, you know, obviously, you guys would be like more like a feeling. But you associate emotion with different colors like I can I can relate and be empathetic to some of what she's going through. They're going through. So it's like, it's hard to but I love that, that they're able to talk about that. Right? And because how else do we find the stuff out and until they start feeling safe to talk about it? It's good stuff.

 

Leighann Lovely  46:09

I didn't even know that that was a thing. But now that you say I suppose now that you say that my husband is my loves music and you know, I when he listens to music, you can see his entire body. Like changes. You can see like him completely relaxed. And I said you hear music different than me. Like you're you entirely like, it consumes him in a way that I could never truly understand. It's just it's truly his passion. And he hears things in it. He'll he'll say, oh, did you? Did you hear that? And I'm like, No, I know, you know, like, no, it's just not my. But I suppose there are certain things you know, my brothers always will ask me, we'll be sitting in the woods, or not in the woods, but like around a campfire, my will hear something in the woods. My brother's like, Oh, what is that noise? And I'm like, Oh, it's a chipmunk. And they're like, and then I looked at him one day, and I said, Why do you always ask me the most obscured questions. And they're like, because you are an encyclopedia of useless information. And I'm like, Yeah, I guess I am. I, that's the way my brain I see something. And I, it's in my, it's in my vault, like I'll never forget, I hear something. And I associate it with the noise of the that the animal makes. And it's, it's forever in my brain. My senses smell is through the rough, saying I can I can smell if an animal is downwind from me. And I can tell you which direction it is. And I can tell you which animal it is. It's it's sometimes it's gross, the things that I can smell. So but I've never heard of mixing or seeing colors, from, you know, from music or mixing those senses that is, in one way. Extremely awesome. And another way. It's got just exhausting. Because yeah, I mean, when you're using all of those senses at the same time, emotionally, just wearing an exhausting, I understand why they would want to be able to cocoon and kind of step away from the world to regenerate.

 

Denise Schamens  48:28

Yeah. And then of course, like, the marketing mom and me is like, oh my gosh, you have to put this on a resume, like How amazing would it be if you get hired to do a jingle for a company? And you're like, oh, my gosh, yeah, your company name is totally blue. And here's what Blue sounds like. And then they could you know, because they're a composer, they can compose what it sounds like. Now, I mean, synesthesia isn't the same for everyone, right? So Denise could hear a piece of music and say not that's totally pink and noise we like now it's yellow. So it's not to say that synesthetes have the same experience. But I just think, from a generation and a creativity standpoint, how much easier it's going to be for mnoey. To come up with something than for someone who's just sitting back with their neurotypical boring average brain trying to come up with some idea that's fresh and new. Right.

 

Denise Schamens  49:18

I think it's still I definitely think that's a skill that yeah, can be capitalized on in her career somehow, for sure,

 

Leighann Lovely  49:26

Absolutely, we all we all have our strengths and our weaknesses. And just because somebody may think that doesn't mean that it's a disability or that you know, being neurodivergent is it's not it's, you can use that utilize that to, to a strength. Now, you may have weaknesses, because of that same thing, but again, you know, I have bipolar disorder, that there are certain things that with bipolar disorder, I've realized that I have strengths because of there are things that you know, and fun, not fun fact fun. I get some most people who are who have bipolar disorder. Part of the reason they go off their medication is because they're wildly creative. A lot of people who I've talked to, I'm really creative, I can paint amazing. I can write, really, really well. But as soon as I go on my medication it dumbs me down. I can't do it anymore. I can't write a campaign. You see this in a lot of different things out there. Something that was you were born with some way that your brain works, often comes with something good. You know, I have to assume that there is a gift somewhere amongst everything else. It's just simply the way that you look at it. Okay, question of the season, because we are coming to time, I'm going to ask both of you to answer this. So I've asked everybody, this, come on this, you know, this this year, this season? If you could pinpoint a time period in your career that made a huge difference in your life or career path? When would that be? And why? Chelsea? Why don't you go first?

 

Denise Schamens  51:08

Yeah, well, I'm really just gonna say the same thing that we said at the opening, you know, Denise, coming to me and saying, Do you think it's a good idea to make a movie about autism? For kids without autism? That was it? You know, I, I was at a point where I could have gone back to doing PR writing, I love to write, I really do I enjoy it. And I could have done that for the company that I worked for, before I started my family, certainly, or I could have done it freelance for a number of different PR companies. And it's just it, having two kids with autism made me realize that this was a calling. And I just couldn't figure out where it was coming from or what it was going to look like. So, you know, Denise, approaching me in 2007, with the idea that eventually became good friend was definitely

 

Leighann Lovely  51:57

Awesome, what about you, Denise?

 

Denise Schamens  51:59

Well, to not sound redundant, because probably mine but I, I think I it has to go back to the when my son was diagnosed at three. That's 20 years ago, I there was no one that had autism that I knew of, in my family, my husband's family, I had no experience with that. My path was art and fine art and exploring that and then was able to stay home with my kids. So I was gonna get right back into the creative side once they were full time in school. And when my son was diagnosed at three, that was a huge pivotal point for me, because I was like, What is this? What does this mean? Now I've got to figure all of this out. And I have two other kids that need to understand it as well. So for me, it was the diagnosis that three,

 

Leighann Lovely  52:56

sometimes life brings people together for a reason. And clearly, it brought the two of you together so that you could create good friend ink and spread your amazing educational program and amazing goodwill to the rest of the world. So that you know and what, 56 - 54,000 students if you 56,000 Okay,

 

Chelsea Budde  53:22

56,000 people, yep. People

 

Leighann Lovely  53:26

Have now seen your training or been touched by by you one way or another. That is absolutely amazing. So, thank you. Thank you so much for coming on and talking with me today. You know, I mentioned this actually in the opener that, you know, I thought of you guys because Alejandra Fraga had mentioned you when I had interviewed her. And I just thought, well, she's talking you up and now I have to make sure that I get you guys to come and talk with me and I just think your mission is is an amazing. Yeah, it's it's amazing. So

 

Chelsea Budde  54:08

Thank you so much. Thanks, man.

 

Leighann Lovely  54:10

You. Thank you again for listening to Let's Talk HR. I appreciate your time and support without you the audience this would not be possible. So don't forget that if you enjoyed this episode to follow us like us or share us. Have a wonderful day.

Website - goodfriendinc.com

Denise Schamens

E-mail - denise@goodfriendinc.com

LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/deniseschamens

Chelsea Budde

E-mail - chelsea@goodfriendinc.com 

LInkedIn - linkedin.com/in/chelseabudde

Referenced in the Episode - 

Wisconsin Independent Learning College - https://wisconsinilc.org

 

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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