NFTs are not ANON why don’t folks understand | Project: Chicken Derby

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  • External/Internal news: 
    • Crypto Friendly, Conservative Candidate Yoon Suk-Yeol Wins South Korea's Presidential Election 
    • Chris Dixon, Marc Andreessen back $30M fund exclusively investing in NFT art | TechCrunch 
    • Ukrainian Boxer Wladimir Klitschko Releases NFT Collection to Support Relief Effort 
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  • Chicken Derby - https://opensea.io/collection/chicken-derby 
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• Theme discussion

Transcipt:

[00:00:00] Today on all about affordable NFTs. We're talking about the theme of NFTs are not anonymous. Anon. Why does the public seem to think that crypto and NFTs are well? We'll get into that topic, but first, Andrew, what do we highlight in the news? Is. 

[00:00:16] Yeah, so yeah, today. Yeah. Last week we talked a little bit about some somehow about politics and crypto seem to be coming together more and got news that this week a there are two crypto friendly presidential candidates in South Korea.

[00:00:30] And I guess the more conservative candidate won out, but. In stark contrast to the current president there that has really tried to crack down on the crypto industry in Korea. So I think this is, I think this is a kind of, I don't know, big moment that crypto it will become a much bigger issue for politicians going forward.

[00:00:51] We're already seeing Sort of being certainly not not shunned by the U S government. I think we're going to have this become a bigger issue for elections moving forward here in the U S just as it was in this election in Korea. So I think that's, it's just interesting to watch that.

[00:01:07] And don't know. Did you, had you seen this at all, George?

[00:01:09] I didn't see this one in particular, but I haven't seen Andrew Yang make a lot of rounds in the U S seen for his web three IO lobby group. And. You better believe the amount of politicians that are gonna wake up to the fact that wait a minute, if I have a pro crypto stance and a public facing wallet, I will get money.

[00:01:29] It won't take too long for people to catch onto that. So I think the longterm ability for crypto to make its way positively into government and legislation is is 

[00:01:39] pretty bold. Yeah, absolutely. So the next newsletter I've got here, I just saw this as we were getting ready to record here was that some of the big partners from a 16 Z one of the big VC funds including Chris Dickson and mark Andreessen our IX or.

[00:01:57] Backing a $30 million fund to invest in NFT art exclusively. So this is, these are art pieces. There's not a lot of detail on what type of art that will include yet, but that is a sizeable amount 30 million to go into NFTE art. As far as I do look at that market a lot and that is, that's a lot of art at this point.

[00:02:18] There aren't a lot of pieces. That go for. The, even the six figure range in the art area you see some big sales on super air, but that is, we'll see where that, where they actually deploy that. I think that is that says a lot for the future of the crypto art market. I think 

[00:02:34] just focused on an empty art, mind you not like NFTs art.

[00:02:39] I think that small extra three letters is so important because you're beginning to realize. As an, even an investment commodity or strategy here, it is being segmented based on the type of NFT and the utility. And we keep coming back to making it more of a larger platform, a concept like the internet and no, one's oh, you like that internet?

[00:03:04] I third, only people that are weird or on the internet, okay, it's 1997. But we're starting to see. That type of nuance. So I was excited to see that also the other thought in my head for this is that I have it frequently also for certain Dows that collect a bunch of money to go buy super expensive stuff.

[00:03:21] And I heard this mentioned on my first million podcasts, you should take a pause. Imagine if someone came to you with the investment opportunity to run around America and go buy the most expensive real estate you could possibly find that just happened to be pumping right now. You would maybe question that investment thesis, why would you run around buying the absolute most expensive homes?

[00:03:44] And like you would question that, but you don't necessarily question 

[00:03:47] argue that the art market, the NFD art market has, is not exactly pumping right now and has been largely overlooked. In most of this activity that has focused so much on 10,000 character or, collections. So I think that, that there is a difference there.

[00:04:03] I think that, we'll see what they, where they go with it. I imagine that my guess would be that there's going to be investment in some historical pieces because there, as we've done. About there were a whole lot of NFTs created in 2021, a lot more than we recreated ever before that. And I think that those are the ones that are often talked about in crypto OJI circles, as That's the proof that, you understood what was going on.

[00:04:28] And so I think that those may be where they are. That would be my guess that they've looked to older pieces first that have more value as we are as more I'm sorry, less less supply than some of these later collections that. And as we know, there's a lot out there right now. And it's not hard to come by them, but to find the older pieces that you actually can see on the blockchain I speak minted at a certain time.

[00:04:48] It's a little bit harder or a lot harder, I would say. So you read 

[00:04:52] that as like an intelligent approach to finding value in the market. I read it as, let me, let's let us go off by a whole bunch of apes and and. 

[00:05:00] We'll see what they do. These, they will say tend to, 

[00:05:03] Obviously we've drawn this point out, but I'm curious.

[00:05:05] So if you were handed that sort of, that basket of money and an investment thesis, you would take it and say like, all right, let's start with this list of artists that have been overly. And look at a five-year horizon or 10 year horizon of saying like these people are just going to eventually be recognized as it, or even if they're not recognized, they simply have a place in glitch art or this style that came to pass between these years of ex.

[00:05:31] Look, I, I certainly don't know what they're, what they are going to do, but yet if I were given that I would certainly look to invest in older pieces of NFT art and crypto art to people that were doing it before it was necessarily what we know it as now. Because one, like I said, the supply is so much lower in there is I think that there will be a lot more credibility given to this as to those people that were doing it before when, getting a $70 sale really meant something.

[00:05:59] And now it costs $70 just to, to process the transaction. Maybe you're lucky right now that it's a little bit lower, it's like, It's really come a long way. So I think that there's going to be some importance given to that for the people that were doing it at that point, and that there's going to be more of a recognition that this is bigger, a bigger change.

[00:06:17] Then the Naval we're giving it credit for there's an adoption of this new technology. And there's some proof that you maybe had that you were working on it at a certain time, and that it started to change things before it started to lead to what we are in right now. And, we may say that it's a cold market, but at the same time, as we said, it's 10 times the number of people that were doing this a year ago, 

[00:06:40] Yeah.

[00:06:41] If you look at the history of sort of technology memorabilia, right? The first apple I iPod, like that has a value that first any S system and cartridge that has a value now, these are things you can no longer get these sort of min conditioned box items. And then that sense, like this is that, however, it doesn't degrade over time.

[00:07:03] I would have. Would it be possible to create one of your dune analytics boards, like around like a handful of those artists tracking them back? Or is it like kinda tough? It sounds super rare, right? 

[00:07:13] Yeah. I, that one I thought about, I would like to get into that a little bit more than just looking at super rare.

[00:07:20] Cause it's easy to look at super rare, but I'd like to know. Things across multiple in almost multiple platforms, they aren't always the easiest to identify. So it may make lewd actually looking at the specific token IDs, but and then grouping them together. But I think it would be nice to be able to get her an idea of what is actually out there, even in the, some of these older NFTs, because it's really, it's, I'd like to get a better idea of how many mints there were.

[00:07:46] In 2018, 2019, or in 2017, that we know that punks were happening. Then, when there's a little bit of debate about some, which is what some of the first collections were in different areas, but it's still nothing compared to now when we've got dozens of projects launching every week and thousands of NFTs being minted, I don't know w we'll see what they do with this.

[00:08:07] I am. I've thought about this a lot. Before this, that I think that some of those early pieces will hold historic value. We've seen this in different art movements as well, when there is a big shift some of the people that innovators that were doing it early, a couple of them will often rise to the top and be the people that.

[00:08:24] Everyone looks to as some of the influential leaders that started the movement before it was popular. So we'll see if it happens here. It, it has played out like that in other art movements and technology movements before. And this is bringing them together. 

[00:08:39] I think there's anything affordable there or is it all like aggressively priced?

[00:08:42] And then you're like saying like, all right, I'm going to drop, 10,000 in the hope that it becomes a million dollar. Sorry to use dirty Fiat 

[00:08:49] for, yeah, that's a good question. I think you have to think about it somewhat in Fiat because we always we've talked about, I think these are a longer term play for the most part than some of these collections.

[00:09:01] It's relatively unusual that, in the traditional art market that you would buy it, buy and sell a piece within the same year. I would say it's very unusual, especially because of the capital gains that come with it in the the U S anyway or the Catholic kids don't come with it. I'm sorry until one year you'd be paying just regular taxes, but anyway They move a lot faster in this market than the old markets, but it's still a lot slower than I've been in an empty collection where you can literally just list it the same day and maybe sell it.

[00:09:30] I don't know. I think there is maybe some value there it's I haven't looked closely at the market recently. I am curious to maybe find what wallets, some of these buyers may be using, and then start looking at those a little bit more closely as they maybe start to deploy this.

[00:09:46] Yeah, 

[00:09:47] that's a good plan. If we find any funny, good affordable projects We'll we'll bring it to y'all here. One more story we have here is the Ukrainian boxer. Vladimir Klitschko released an NFT collection to support the relief efforts in Ukraine. So this isn't an NFT that can be tracked as best as possible to support that will go toward the, the crisis unfolding in.

[00:10:09] So there have been other NFT projects. Certainly there was like a promise of an NFT dropped by the Ukrainian government, I think. And then they they were a little busy with, the bullets and the Russians and they were like, ah, actually, no, but I'm, I'd be willing to bet a horse that that they will come out with something.

[00:10:28] Hopefully they come out with it on a, a gracilis layer or something, or good old polygon. To to, to further people's ability to support the efforts there. 

[00:10:37] Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I Like you said, there's been over 80 million funded to Ukraine at least tracks so far through crypto efforts.

[00:10:45] I will, this is a cool collection and I hope we do see more something official from the government. I think that would help them help them a lot in terms of fundraising. And it would be a popular collection for a number of reasons 

[00:10:57] and watch this smooth transition. And speaking of.

[00:10:59] Russia and Vladimir Putin, a true chicken of the region. Chicken Derby. Why not raise some check-ins so it was pretty smooth transition. There 

[00:11:09] we go. Yeah, chicken Derby. Let's get onto it. What do you have for us here? 

[00:11:12] Chicken Derby is basically chickens, meat, Zed run that has a racing game. They have been in a sort of phased roadmap launch that finally.

[00:11:22] Cause I've been watching it for a little bit because it's been talked about chirp Tibet. If you will, that run discords they are these animated looking chickens that you submit and race. You paid. Drop them into a race right now, they are about to, it seems like move out of beta four, race racing, actually there'll be a free tier and a pay tier to race.

[00:11:44] And it is a play to earn type of strategy here. Also a earn way play as well, because there's like a way to pay into a race. It's like the gambling element as well. The earning element, they are ridiculous looking. They have skills there are currently 33,000 and roughly 6,000 owners. The floor price is at 0.03, two, so very accessible.

[00:12:06] And all I can really do is say like they're mimicking off of Zed run in many ways. And we'll hopefully learn about the mechanics that actually work. And, people are in fact playing this game. So I will say that Genesis horses in Zed around are incredibly valuable at this point.

[00:12:22] But the chickens in here, there are four different breed types, 11 breed type. There are. They call them heritage dorking Lakin builders, Sultan and Sarama. And when you jump and find that link, you'll be able to see the varying amounts. Seromas the best dorking is the worst. My, my recommendation would be like, play around, look at rarity score, but actually.

[00:12:44] The talent is what seems to derive the most value of the potential racing capability. The racing capability will be found out by the chicken based on the distance. It runs there's short, mid, long distances that are rung run, but basically more rare talents are, and the chicken is racing. It has a special ability to do something ridiculous, like freeze.

[00:13:08] Or make them March in a circle or blow them up or toss them into a black hole or take a helicopter from last to first. So there's all of these special abilities that are just randomly done and some are far more powerful. And basically you'll be able to tell that from the talent drop down, That's where I would potentially start if I were getting into it full disclosure I'm a stable not a henhouse, so I don't intend to buy one, but I might change my mind, but it's something interesting to look at.

[00:13:40] And it's at a time when the game is just finding its feet. So it has proven that they can Del develop a game. I get nervous. Too much getting in that period of time where there's no game and you're buying assets. But they've shown they can do a thing here.

[00:13:54] Andrew, what insights 

[00:13:55] do you see here? So I'm looking at the website here which is somewhat curiously@bitlevin.com. Apparently that is the developer behind this. I was trying to find more about the developer says that the It's the team behind of final boss games. They're well-known for the game ganja farmer.

[00:14:13] Note link on that ganja farmer had over 7 million downloads at once. Not super active at this point, but does have. Good reviews. Still, when you do a search for it, I'm a little disappointed. There's not a little bit more about the team. Looking at the website here there's 33,000 of the 33,333 of the chickens noticed.

[00:14:35] Yeah, I dunno. It sounds interesting. I don't. It sounds somewhat like it's just a copycat of Zed and I'm not sure what what's going to entice users to try this versus one of the many of the stable games that you've brought to us like peg exe or is it, 

[00:14:51] yeah, I dunno.

[00:14:52] It's pretty ridiculous. Like it doesn't take itself seriously. And it comes down to getting the game. If they can get the mechanic right. And people play it and it's fun. You know what, like this time, last year dose going was pumping like, okay, like dog coins pump, like, why not? 

[00:15:05] They're telling yet.

[00:15:06] Maybe you just haven't had the time right 

[00:15:08] game. You, I had a dad pond. You get a deck? 

[00:15:11] Yeah. We each got one.

[00:15:12] Cool. Alrighty. Moving into our theme. All right. Yeah. Our theme here, what do you got here to get NFTs are not anonymous. It is curious that everybody seems to think NFPS and crypto is so anonymous. That is not the case at all. 

[00:15:30] It's aggressively true and aggressively misunderstood. And how do I make the claim that it's missing?

[00:15:35] One, because there's so many people, that end up making their like profile a, a punk or a board app and be like, oh no, this is me. I don't want to show my real identity. Like it would take an actual reporter, probably a lunch 

[00:15:50] break to find 

[00:15:51] you. And what's more, we see ridiculous things like, the Ivanka Trump NFT getting bought by her own wallet and being like, no, it was bought for somebody else.

[00:15:59] Like not sitting there, 

[00:16:00] like you see 

[00:16:01] there's this assumption. I feel that because crypto in the past was a bunch of, hash numbers. And, the silk road type of ethos of oh no, you can never track anything and find it. It's actually incredibly trackable. And it may be that, the public or general perception just sees these hashes and be like, that's impossible to tell what's going on there.

[00:16:25] It's no, that's a unique hash that's somebody's number. And they just run around with a number, doing whatever we want. Wet. It's more trackable than a cookie. You 

[00:16:31] can't escape it. Yeah, absolutely. This is a, it's more like a permanent one that you actually want to carry around with you because it has all of your assets.

[00:16:39] So when you connect to a site, they can see who connected to their site and see what you have in your wallet, which means you people know, what kind of currency you have, what other NFTs you hold. You can also see, Do you want to dig into it? You can see what they've held in the past.

[00:16:52] It's really not that hard to look at all these things. And generally speaking, then you can often see that there's an ENS Ethereum name, service, and name tied to it may not be their real name, but in many cases it is often you'll be able to find a Twitter account. There's so many non-anonymous ways.

[00:17:07] So even if there's not a. A real name immediately available. It's often there, if you look off the surface, but this is, it's a kin to, if everybody could see all of your all of your stock trades, all of your everything that you're I know every game that you're playing, just see this on a public blockchain and be able to pull that up forever.

[00:17:28] Everybody has this data. This is very different than just, Google or Facebook. It means that when you take an action in web three and sign a contract, anyone can see this. It's really quite different in this. Yes, it's a long 42 digit hash, but that's just a 42 digit hash and it follows you everywhere.

[00:17:48] So there's, it's really not anonymous. Recently we talked about how some six year old cases we're resolved and, people were arrested, these things don't go away. The blockchain will record this and it is completely not anonymous. It's completely misunderstood.

[00:18:04] And I guess there is. I at the beginning, people thought this, and it's in a concept that is proliferate, proliferate it over time and it's false. So we need to get that idea out there that this is when you take an action in this world, it will not only be known at that time. It will be known forever and will be found out if there is anything I'm not right about it.

[00:18:25] I have two analogies, one early days of Facebook when it was just in colleges. I remember joining from my college and I was like, oh, I can post whatever the heck I want here because, oh, it's just my friends being connected. I had no concept of what network effects really were, what they meant. I had no concept of the Facebook roadmap, which was expand to absolutely everywhere and share absolutely everything about what I had done under a previous sort of social contract, I would say with platform in the same way that maybe certainly in the early days of 

[00:19:02] NFTs oh yeah, 

[00:19:03] it was.

[00:19:04] Use a hash to find somebody, but over time because of network effects because of triangulation and the ability for us to use some of these tools, like there's a reason why some of those scammers have been caught now because tools are getting more sophisticated and the ability to de-anonymize those hashes is becoming a really readily available.

[00:19:26] Another metaphor. I'll hold on that thoughts, do you agree? Is that. 

[00:19:30] Oh, absolutely. Yeah. There's there's a lot, there are a lot more people looking into this that are working on tracking these things that are actually keeping off-chain databases of who these who some of the more prominent wallets are.

[00:19:42] It's even hard to, it's becoming hard to even think that you could move money around, even if you were able to to somehow, get a hack in there. And once you, if you have a sizeable amount, people are going to be able to track that forever. Most of, I think all of the Exchanges require some sort of a KYC element where know your customer, so they you've got to register your real name.

[00:20:07] So when it comes out, when it comes out of crypto and into, real-world currency someone's still got that that isn't necessarily public, but up until that, Anyone can see it. And after that, it means that a, a company that reports to the sec can see it. There's not a lot of privacy here at all.

[00:20:23] There are more companies working on privacy solutions for various layer twos. I don't know enough about those to understand how that's going to completely solve the anonymization. Yeah. 

[00:20:36] Yeah, I've seen a lot of these sort of privacy and privacy platforms come out there and it will come, the pendulum always swings back and forth, but right now it's really aggressive between toward everything you do is very public, very find-able and quickly accessible.

[00:20:48] The other metaphor I have is to your point about the, can I see all of your assets? If somebody knows your address and your sort of IRL address your house or your apartment, they can look up. Certainly where you are, where you live, the average zip code income, they can look up if you had bought it and you can find the housing record of that.

[00:21:06] They can find your information that way, but they, it stops there, but there is information associated with that address that, there's a reason why some people are like, yeah, I don't want to share that very readily, but it goes even beyond that, because then you could say, yeah, I could see all of your crypto holdings.

[00:21:21] That is an isn't true. I will say if you looked at, either one of our wallets, for example, you would certainly see a stupid amount of horses and an amazing amount of art on your side. But there's also a lot of stuff. I have randomly staked places like I have just skittered about, cause I didn't want to put everything in to my main wallet and you'd have to know where to go to unlock.

[00:21:40] And you don't 

[00:21:41] see 

[00:21:42] staked. In your wallet, cause you've technically put it somewhere and, promised on a contract, that'll come back to you. And when. 

[00:21:49] Yeah, that's a good point. And I've actually heard of, I've heard of someone that was hacked while had wildly had something staked. And the hacker had actually written a contract.

[00:21:59] So that one day on staked, the token would immediately go back to the hacker, but they wrote something that I hired someone to write some sort of script. So that, that couldn't happen. But that's an interesting thing. So if you use that word. And then either lose access or someone else gains access to that wallet.

[00:22:15] They can access those state tokens. They may not know where you have stake tokens, and those tokens could be currency or NFTs, but I'm like a 

[00:22:24] squirrel. I'm like an internet squirrel. 

[00:22:26] Know why I still look at yeah. That is a good point there where hidden things.

[00:22:30] But you could see at least where you've sent various various FTEs or various tokens, you'd have to somehow. Filter out the ones that are just valid transfers to another wallet from those ones that are just being staked somewhere. So you'd have to know that the wallet is a staking wallet versus someone else's personal wallet.

[00:22:47] So yeah, that does make it a little bit harder to track everything. And as we've talked about, almost everybody in crypto has at least a couple of wallets, if not three, four or more. And so I, I. It's a little harder to track everything, I would say. There are ways that you would be able to see see maybe related wallets.

[00:23:07] If you see that there's maybe free trade, free NFTs being passed between the two or just a lot of transactions between the two wallets, you could certainly link those in that way. And there are tools we've mentioned some tools out there with tornado cash is one that helps to anonymize.

[00:23:24] Transactions. And I would say that's really best if you just want to anonymize it for your own for your own sake on the web it's still going to get back to you in terms of any kind of, 

[00:23:35] can you Tornado Cash, NFT? 

[00:23:36] You can set up a new wallet and then just buy the NFT with that.

[00:23:42] New wallet that is essentially not tracked to you. In this case, you maybe would send one Eve into the, into tornado cash. At some point you take it out to another wallet. That never is that from directly from a tornado cash. So it never is tied to your original wallet. So there's that hundreds or thousands of these transactions going in and out as long as it's a small amount, 

[00:24:03] but then by that NFT, 

[00:24:05] You will, if you buy it from yourself, you're gonna, you're gonna have that tied to you in some way.

[00:24:10] I guess someone could just think it's a, yeah, I guess someone could just think it's a, the distinct buyer. Although if they hold just one NFT and maybe one purchase, it's probably a pretty, that to me would be a good sign. It's a related wallet. I'm thinking that you could do things if you just want it to be.

[00:24:26] To start a new wallet and not have people necessarily track it. At the end of the day, you're still taking it out and I, it's not good for trying to avoid any taxes or anything like that. Definitely not saying that. And would strongly advise against trying to use it for that. It would really just be for the personal.

[00:24:41] If people know that it's you or not, and I could see people wanting that sort of anonymous activity not everybody wants to go on, crypto, Twitter and brag about their NFP purchases. There are a lot of people that really don't like to talk about what they're purchasing or to have people know what they're purchasing.

[00:24:58] So I could see that there are people that want that just for that reason. 

[00:25:01] Yeah. It's a good warning. I feel like there, there are some percent of people being like, oh, there's no way the government can tell that's my wallet. And you're like, boy, you're wrong 

[00:25:08] on that? Yeah. Just because they haven't found yet don't mean it not coming.

[00:25:13] Absolutely. Like we said, that, that case from six years ago, just imagine the tools that'll be available in another six years. And 

[00:25:19] guess what? They'll make the statute of limitations as far 

[00:25:22] as they. Yeah. That'll change if necessary. Don't worry how there's always a way. 

[00:25:27] All right, Andrew. Thanks.

[00:25:28] I think we've really bounced it around a good amount. Thanks for sharing. See out there. 

[00:25:32] All right. Bye George.