Episode 5 - Ben Zang - Changing Careers

Ben Zang is not only a brilliant businessman, he ran a successful restaurant. He is one that has had the pleasure of having a second career that offered him time to also raise a family. Ben is a wonderful study of people and business owners alike, taking a human approach to Health care benefits. This is one amazing conversation you should not miss.

 

Leighann Lovely  00:21

If you are an HR professional business owner or at the operations level trying to understand what people want, you may be struggling. Our systems have been shocked practices have been questioned and culture is the leading conversation. Let's learn how culture is created, sustained, and why it should be the leading conversation when discussing hiring, training and retention. This is the foundation of any business and it's time to address it. So tune in to Let's Talk HR - Humanizing the Conversation. We tackle topics that influencers of change need to understand and struggle to overcome every day, such as where to start, and what the new workforce wants, and how to attract and keep positive momentum going. I'm your host Leighann. Lovely.

 

Leighann Lovely  01:08

Today, I get to talk with an amazing person, I've had the opportunity to talk with him offline. And now I'm getting the opportunity to talk with him on my podcast today. So I'm greatly honored to have this opportunity, Ben Zeng, after owning a business for almost two decades, Ben and moved on to family life, and life of consulting, he has helped businesses in a variety of fields from operations technologies to employee benefits. It is his diverse background and network of experts that lends value and perspective to his clients. His philosophy on business is that it's very much like raising children. They grow and change over time, so that what fits today may not fit tomorrow, there will be a season for celebration and a season for tough conversations. But always, there should be trust and honesty between him it is with this reverence and responsibility that Ben builds his practice, the foundation of his work and employee benefits centers around three tenants. Transparency, strategy, and trust. Welcome, Ben, I am very excited to have you on today and talk with me. So thank you for joining me.

 

Ben Zang  02:30

I'm super excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

 

Leighann Lovely  02:33

So Ben, why don't we jump right in? Why don't you tell me a little bit about yourself?

 

Ben Zang  02:37

Sure. So I am a dad, first three kids, twin, four year olds, and an eight year old. And I am a benefits broker with transition health benefits. So that's what I do. And then of course, loving husband all that good stuff, at least on a good day.

 

Leighann Lovely  03:01

So what does that mean for a bad day?

 

Ben Zang  03:07

It means I have to try harder. That's what it usually means.

 

Leighann Lovely  03:12

Right? No, I, I completely understand that I have a crazy four year old as my audience knows, you know that we've talked about it? Well, excellent. So you are with transition health benefits. You're a senior small group specialist there. So tell me tell me a little bit about you know, what that means?

 

Ben Zang  03:32

Sure, so I go into small and or medium sized employers and help them figure out their benefit package. You know, I really look at it as the benefits are a way that a company can show they want to take care of their people. So in my job is to kind of how to make that work within the tight margins of a small business. So there's a variety of different creative ways we use to kind of get that accomplished. Along with being that kind of trusted advisor usually when I walk in benefits and employee culture and, and HR kind of touch everything within the company. So if they're on a growth trajectory that makes a difference in their benefit program if they're trying to cut costs, because this is one of those tight cashflow instances within a business that affects the business the benefits. So I try and have a more holistic approach when we look at something like that because your culture and how you how you take care of your people will directly impact how your people take care of your business. So those are the conversations I have and maneuver through.

 

Leighann Lovely  04:55

You know that's interesting. I I Recently I was in a situation with somebody that loved the company that they were working at. Absolutely loved it. ButI had no choice but to leave that company, because of the health care benefits. They, they knew that they were going into a situation in which they, they needed a higher level of care, and the benefits that they were currently getting at that company, we're not going to be able to cover some of the treatments, and they were offered a job that had extremely rich benefits. And they were basically looking at it going, this other benefit plan is going to cover 100% of my treatment plan, or treatments. And so more that you're able to offer your people and show that you care definitely can be a direct impact on how that company can retain individuals.

 

Ben Zang  06:09

That's the bit. It's one of the most interesting things about the situation we're in where everybody talks about the great resignation, right? is I actually believe, and I believe this with all of my being because I've seen it, bear out in my own life, that COVID kind of shook everybody up. And so people got a chance to be at home and to reprioritize what they're looking for in an employer. And so I think what you end up seeing is, as people are trying to do work that's more meaningful to themselves. The challenge is always how do I do meaningful work, and not leave my family out in the cold? And I think that's where benefits play a direct correlation on like, the example you gave, if, if they can't take care of themselves, or the the people whom they're in charge of my twins, or my oldest daughter or my wife? How can I work that job? Right. So that's really the conversations we start having. And and I think the hard part, too is, is the healthcare system doesn't make it easy. Right? So anybody who's ever pulled out an explanation of benefits, the first reaction through the first read through is or if they get two pages in, they're like, I have no idea what I'm reading. Right? So how do you interact with the healthcare system? I talked to a business owner didn't know what a deductible was, or max out of pocket, how do you? How do you start to educate people in that part, because insurance companies and the medical, not the medical field, but healthcare as a business makes it their job to not be so transparent.

 

Leighann Lovely  08:14

Absolutely. And now with the, because of the onset of the pandemic, you have people who were cooped up in their homes, one obviously eating assistance because of health, because of it's a pandemic, where everybody's, you know, being exposed to this horrible thing that's wiping the nation wiping the world. But now, on the flip side of that, we now have people who are experiencing mental health issues, because they've been cooped up. And to your point, the healthcare system does not make it easy to understand your what you have available, you know, to get coverage and what is covered. You may have and the only reason I know this is because I I've experienced trying to understand my benefits trying to you may have mental health coverage, but that might only be for 10 visits a year. Well, what if you're, you, you are experiencing a massive, you know, social anxiety 10 visits a year is not going to help you get over the hump in the immediate. So yeah, to your point, having more resources or, and again, obviously, one conversation is not going to fix the problem that we have with our healthcare system.

 

Ben Zang  09:46

But a lot of giving up and I'm just gonna say you bring up a really interesting point and the fact that, you know, those 10 visits may be explained, but what they don't say also is, is You can actually do that telephonically too. And a lot of times you get unlimited in the telephonically. And so one of the things COVID did do was it forced us into, hey, zoom, you can do this over video chat, you can do this over. So there are a myriad of solutions out there. But how do you have somebody whose job is like, how do you how does a restaurant worker whose job is to take care of the people in their section or to cook the food? When do they have time to go out and become a health care specialist to understand how to get there?

 

Leighann Lovely  10:38

Right? Absolutely. You have to and again, to your point, you read the first page, and you go, Wes, what does any of that mean? I don't, and calling them and trust me. And in this. Again, I'm kind of bashing. And I don't mean to but calling and saying can you explain this to me? And I've experienced this where they're like, Well, yeah, it's Baba, blah, blah. And you're like, Yeah, I read that, too. I'm calling you because they don't get it. What does it mean? Well, I don't understand. I can read it just as clearly as you can read it. But I don't I don't understand it. And they're like, well, well, it's this, this and this. And you're like, Okay, yep. I got the bullets on that too.

 

Ben Zang  11:27

What does that mean? Exactly? What does

 

Leighann Lovely  11:29

that mean? And then you get a bill and you're like, wait a second, I thought this was covered? Oh, no, not until you've met your deductible? Well, when do I meet my deductible? I feel like I should have met it. I've gone to the doctor a bunch of Oh, no, those were covered service. Well, that doesn't go towards me. And it's like, okay, wait a second. Like, I need a spreadsheet, a couple of spreadsheets to just track all of this stuff. Nobody's got the time to do that. So it is it is yeah, it's absolutely a crazy world. And to have somebody who takes that, and tries to help at least, you know, the owners, the people making those decisions, educate them on that, and then to hopefully have somebody who's educated enough at a company to explain to those employees what any and all of that mean. Because it's it is I mean, and I will tell you that there has been times in my life where I couldn't afford my medications, and trying to navigate getting assistance to the Government, you have to be extremely diligent. And you have to educate yourself on how to it's, you almost have to take a class on how to do that in order to get the assistance, just for your basic medications.

 

Ben Zang  12:50

Right, your tenacity and trying to figure out that conundrum, so to speak, goes a long way. I mean, there's such a thing as grant writer, well, that's kind of what those subsidies are like, is you have to write your own grant to get help with that. And that's a shame, too, because there's a variety of different reasons why that's all created. And there's a ton of what's called pharmacy rebates and trying to either that doesn't go back to the employer, which is really where it should go. Because they're subsidizing plans, it ends up just going into somebody else's pocket. So it never really kind of reaches that consumer. So there's a ton of things and, and don't get me wrong, there are a ton of people in my industry doing a lot of great work to navigate that stuff. And then there are also doctors themselves who are stepping out of the brokenness of some of the systems and doing some wonderful things like direct primary care, which kind of harkens back to the days where your family went to see one doctor, and and that doctor saw multiple generations of that family, and he handled probably 80 to 90% of what your medical needs were, God willing, and in, in those days, and so people are starting to try and return to that to kind of cut out all the insulated layers within the ability to consume healthcare.

 

Leighann Lovely  14:39

You know, and it's interesting that you say that because I remember as a child growing up in a small it was considered a small town at that time. It's not so small. Now it's, you know, like any small town that's close to a big city. It's, it's booming, it's growing. I went to the same pediatric doctor and I remember For what at what point he said to me, you can't come to me anymore? And I'm like, What do you mean? He goes, Well, you're 18 you need to go and find, you know, a new primary care doctor. You're firing me. He's like, Well, you don't fall under pediatrics anymore. Oh, yeah, we got a big girl. ever want to go to anybody else? Like, you've been seeing me since I was born? What do you mean? And I, because I wouldn't, you know, I went to the military at 17. He was my doctor, I came back, I'm 18 years old, and I'm like making an appointment. And they're all looking at me funny. I'm like, what? Like, okay, this is pediatrics. Like, I don't want to go anywhere else. You know, but up until that point, that was the only doctor I had ever seen. And then all of a sudden, you go and you start seeing somebody else. And then you move, I moved out of that town into, you know, into a bigger city and, and then it was like, I got a new doctor, that doctor retired, I had to find a new doc. And when I was younger, it took you know, if I called the doctor's office, they could sometimes see me same day. Nowadays, if you need to be same scenes, same day, they're like, you probably should go to urgent care. I'm like, what do you what do you mean, you can't see your My doctor like, how, in fact, I don't even see a doctor, I see my doctor's nurse practitioner. But my primary care doctor is listed as somebody else. I've never even met her. And I'm like, okay, that's weird. But I guess that's common, it's changed so much. Because I'm, you know, again, I'm 41 years old. So it's, I mean, the healthcare system is just, it's so different from when I was a child compared to the way that it is now. And now if you know, I call and say, Hey, I have, you know, this problem, they're like, oh, you should see a specialist.

 

Ben Zang  17:06

And there's, I mean, there's some great books out American sickness will both infuriate you, and educate you and a lot of kind of how things have evolved, you know, it's kind of like a big snowball. You just keep adding pieces in. And then the next thing, you know, you're like, Yeah, that was supposed to be the head. And I don't know if I can get it. Now. It's the bottom of a new body of a snowman, right? So there's a lot of that kind of stuff within the healthcare system today. And so, and that makes it tough, right? If you're a small business owner, if you own a restaurant, or, you know, your your job is to cut hair, or to manage a salon full of stylists, who, who gave you a healthcare administrative degree along the way, right, there's nobody out there, right. So you know, and there's the individual marketplace too. And that those are, that's become an amazing resource for some of those solopreneurs. And you can go on healthcare.gov. And you can sign up yourself and do that. But I think one of the things that people don't know is that there are people like me out there that they can use free of charge. So, so you don't have to try and navigate a health plan. Because a lot of times you'll do it based on price. Well, maybe you're spending, you know, anywhere from two to $1,000 a month on something that's not going to work for you. Either is over insuring you or under insuring. So yeah, education is always that kind of sticking point. And how do you get it? How do you get it?

 

Leighann Lovely  18:50

Right? So you have an interesting background, so I'm gonna kind of shift here, you actually, you come from the restaurant industry. And so it's, I'm not gonna say that, you know, how do you end up in healthcare? I mean, usually people are like, Hey, wanna talk about healthcare? No, no, I don't, I'm gonna run later.

 

Ben Zang  19:13

I mean, not a sexy profession by any means, right? But it's, but

 

Leighann Lovely  19:17

it's unnecessary. And definitely something that we, it's a conversation we need to continue to have. But what I want to focus on now is, you know, you, you come from the restaurant industry, and so, talk to me about that.

 

Ben Zang  19:30

So, I have had a very gypsy lifestyle to a certain point, right? And so I owned a restaurant before I'd ever worked in one. Do not recommend it for anybody who, who wants to go this path. So as a lot of like 99% perspiration 1% inspiration. But it teaches you quite a bit and I always say if you want To find a hard worker, hire a manager in a restaurant, because they've they've eaten enough garbage, so to speak from both ends of the stick either the owner and the customer to be able to handle a very high stress point. I left my restaurant when my wife and I got together. And I remember having a conversation that we had a great staff coming in, and that I would be down to 65 hours a week. And my wife literally said, you know, the normal work week is 14. And my comment out to her was, what do people do with the other four days, I don't, I don't know what that means. And so that kind of stuff can so it. I was older when I met my wife, and we wanted to have kids and I knew it was going to be kind of a choice between doing the restaurant or being with my wife and seeing my kids. And so I made the move before any of the kids had come along. But I made the move so that when they did come along, I could be there for them. And, you know, restaurants are interesting.

 

Ben Zang  21:23

And sometimes I feel like they're they're not given their due as far as what they are. Because really, it's every side of business. In a restaurant, there's research and development, there's production, there's the accounting, there is cashflow management, all of that is within a restaurant. And so the thing that I took from it is the kind of small business mindset. And I did some consulting as I moved kind of down this line. And the two themes that have always kind of played true in my life is those people that were resources for me, I appreciated highly. And the other thing I didn't like was a bully in a room. So there was a bully in the room. It was I didn't like bullies, so I didn't take it well. And so how I ended up here is, is when you look at small businesses, probably their top expenses, their employee, but their second explained expense is the employee benefit package, how they take care of it. And so the lack of transparency, how does a business owner take the second largest expense and not have a transparent? How do you eat an 8% year over year increase in it. And so I felt like I could make a difference here in this part of it. And so my, when I left the restaurant industry, I had my sister works at a large firm Gallagher, Arthur Gallagher out in St. Louis. And she said, I think you'd really liked the work we do and how, how much impact it can have. And so as I started to make my transition, it was always selling into businesses, or really being that resource for them. How can I help them? You know? So if I sold cameras into business, like a big brother kind of maintenance security, which is what I did for a little bit? It was really how do you use this to help strengthen your KPIs? How do you use this as a culture tour tour? And, and not a stick? How can you carry it or incentivize good behavior. So it taught me a lot of things on how to kind of shape your culture and behaviors and habits within the business. And so when I deal with the owner of a restaurant, or I deal with a small business owner, the conversations we have, I think, are far more helpful in the fact that, you know, I want to explain what the structure is, where the problems are, and then how do we attack it? How do we, how do we create solutions for it? And that solution is employee benefits, great if it's if it's a twist of giving them other HR resources that help kind of shape that culture before employee benefits come in. Because if your culture is awful, and you give out great benefits, that doesn't, it doesn't matter. It really has to the behavior of your company and community within your company. Have to be such that it's a stable environment.

 

Leighann Lovely  24:51

So absolutely. And you come from ownership, you know, you you own the companies So being able to come in as somebody who's been there done that creating that culture and walk in and have a very open, honest conversation with another business owner, you know, from the standpoint of, hey, I understand it's hard, I understand that this is a huge expense. But let's take a look, let's figure out what's, you know what the next step is for you. And really being the the consultant versus the salesperson is huge to anybody, when you take that approach versus the, hey, here's my products, what are you going to buy from me, instead of, you know, or, you know, coming in as the, alright, let's, let's talk about your your company as a whole. And you said that you take the holistic approach of, let's open up, you know, just have an open conversation about everything and figure out where, you know, where I can possibly assist you. And that's definitely beneficial. It's the building the relationship, it's the, you know, the human side of, of what I, the reason that people like you and I exist is to, is to have those human conversations make those human connections?

 

Ben Zang  26:17

Absolutely. I got off the phone earlier today with a company that was looking at benefits, right? So my job is to sell the benefits to broker those deals. Only this company wasn't in any shape, to do benefits. The woman who was the director of sales, it was a two main company right now. There'll be ramping up soon. But they're in the process of getting funding and all the private equity money coming in. And the owner was a disabled vet. So he had benefits through the VA and the director of sales had great benefits through her husband. So I'm like, it doesn't sound like you guys are ready yet. I'm happy to start to run those things. And I'm sure we could throw you on a plan. But why that doesn't quite make sense. And so there are things that I gave her a process to follow as they start to bring on those employers, because maybe a group plan isn't the right play for you as a business there, there's a tool that was called an Akron, a friend of mine whose insurance made a joke, and I now steal it and call it my own. But insurance people give out acronyms like Oprah gives out cars. So he, it's an acronym of individual choice, Health Reimbursement Arrangement. And basically what it says is, an employer says, you know, this is my budget, this is what I can give toward your health care, whatever that number is, and then you as an employee can work with somebody like me, and go out on the individual marketplace and grab your own insurance. And then I'll be able to reimburse you as a business owner, X amount of dollars towards that. And maybe that's the first step before getting on a group health plan. Right? You know, there are a variety of different ways there's, you know, medical sharing programs that are not actually insurance, that kind of help take care of your people. There's the gym membership of kind of all you can eat health care for direct primary care. There's a ton of different ways out there. And all you're looking at and some of those are commissionable products for me, and some aren't. But if you're looking to try and take care of people, I live and breathe in these communities. So if those businesses succeed, our communities are better. And so you know, it if you're just looking at bottom dollar costs and how to make how to make your your mark on things. I think how you make your mark on things is humanizing what we do, you know, it's people that we're taking care of, it's not just health plans, it's communities.

 

Leighann Lovely  29:19

My dad has told me a couple of times Leighann you can't and this is not related to sales because this is not the way that I am but I am I sometimes run my mouth when I get heated about certain topics I'm very quick to be like no I'm gonna you know I'm very much like you I don't like bullies in the room. I I'm very quick to defend people I'm very quick and I'm so I do you have a tendency to you know, my dad always tells me Leon stop being a bull in a china shop. And it is the salespeople who are the bulls in a china shop who are just absolutely positive If Lee, I'm going to go in there and and make a sale no matter what that are the people who are basically just a flash in the pan that they come, they get hired. They they last maybe a year or two years and quickly are found out for not caring about the people they serve. But when you are somebody who genuinely cares about the outcome and the people that you serve, you build a community, like you were saying, of people who ultimately will refer other business, I have said to some of the people who have called me and said, Hey, I would like to have you help me and you find somebody to hire at our company. And then we talk about numbers, we talk about this. And ultimately, I'll go, you know, I actually have recommendations on how you can do this yourself in a more affordable way. And they're like, well, we'll know I want you to do this. And I'm like, no, no, you can't afford my services. Right? Let me help you do this, this way, and, and walked away from that. That is the person who's sending me referrals to other businesses who can't afford my services, or sends me a great candidate. In one day, maybe as they, as the business grows, they come back to me and they're like, Hey, we can now afford your services. And you're the only company that we thought of because of that. But that's what it's about human humans as a resource and people, you know, doing the right thing. And creating those. And yeah, that's, that's awesome. So you, it sounds like it wasn't a difficult decision for you, when you decided to leave the restaurant industry. I mean,

 

Ben Zang  31:58

Incredibly difficult. Was it credibly? Oh, yeah. It was all I've ever known. I had run that business for 20 years, it was part of my identity. It was, it was every bit a part of me as the new life I was trying to build.

 

Leighann Lovely  32:15

Come on, you got a beautiful, I've never seen your wife, I'm going to make the assumption of this gorgeous woman who's like, I want to marry you have children. All you have to do is leave everything you've ever known. Okay, now I'm seeing how what was difficult.

 

Ben Zang  32:35

And let's be clear, she did not know. She did not push this on. But there does come a point in your life where you're at a crossroads. And I remember, I had some great mentors in the restaurant business. And one of them was a gentleman named Ray, who ran the original Margaritaville. And he was divorced. And he was telling me about the time that he was managing restaurants before he had managed Margaritaville. And he'd been married. And his wife said, we should open a restaurant together. And Ray said absolutely not. And she said, why. And he says, we'll be divorced in six months. While he was wrong, it was four months. They were divorced. Because it's it's not an easy thing. And my wife worked within my restaurant for a number of years. But the there were a number of different factors in housing markets. And all of that kind of came into play. And so when I left the restaurant business, and you had wanted to make a trade or transition into sales and preferably, probably find something like what I'm doing now, and no, it was incredibly difficult, because there's the whole learning curve. Yeah, I can. I can walk into a restaurant today and know what the kitchen is what's going on in the kitchen. What's going on in the front? In probably 30 seconds and be pretty accurate as far as that's the pulse of the place.

 

Leighann Lovely  34:17

Are there any restaurants that we should have? No, I'm kidding. Don't Don't answer that. Are there restaurants that you recommend?

 

Ben Zang  34:25

There are a ton of restaurants, great restaurants around here. There are there there just are and unfortunately I don't get out as much as I as I probably should. You and I have done a restaurant we'll probably going to do sushi later. So yeah, there's some great restaurants out there and so I can plug them but you know what I would say right now is the kind of those people in the restaurant industry because right now, the restaurant industry is growing And then the fact that for a long time, it's been able to dictate terms towards employees. And as they are coming to find out as every other employer out there, it's going to be a two way street for a little bit here. And it's probably going to be a bumpy road. And so yeah, so that's what I would say, on restaurants. But making that transition was incredibly difficult.

 

Leighann Lovely  35:25

And I want to mimic that. What you said is be kind to your servers be kind to the people in the service industry, they, every single one of them went through a horrific, obviously the world went through horrific event, but the people in the service industry and those who have gone back to it, we need them, we absolutely need them. And they need to, they need to feel special about that I've, I've made a point to every time I go somewhere to make sure that I tip generously because because I enjoy being able to eat in a restaurant. And I never realized how much I would miss it until I couldn't eat in a restaurant.

 

Ben Zang  36:08

So yeah, most of them are doing at shortstop now too, right? So yep, that's interesting.

 

Leighann Lovely  36:14

And it frustrates me when I hear somebody saying, Oh, my God, the service is so bad. And I'm thinking to myself, then that's the bully in the room. That's the bully, I want to stand up, I walk over to being like, Do you Do you have any idea how the men and women are hustling? or I shouldn't say men and women anymore? I should say, Do you have any idea how the people in this restaurant are hustling, and trying to make everything you know, your experience? Awesome, despite the fact that they are probably running on a, you know, a ship that's meant for an additional five people or an additional? Like, stop complaining, like stop being a snob?

 

Ben Zang  36:51

Like, that's, I mean, it's tough. And I think it's a really good mirror of what's going on in a lot of businesses today. And there are some businesses that I talked to, and they're having the exact opposite problem. Like, they're like, Oh, my God, we're growing so fast. You know, COVID was actually really good for our business. Sorry to say, because Because chain pattern shifted, right. And so there's got to be some businesses on the better end of that pattern, some that are on the worse. So yeah, so that's, I think, when you talk, one of the reasons I was so excited about your podcast is you talk about the humanizing the experience. And I think, as I got to transition out of one career, and then into another career of, of helping small businesses, one of the things I became very aware of, in my own struggles as an entrepreneur, and helping young entrepreneurs, or even well established is, there's always the education piece that nobody gave, there was like, there's no class that says, hey, this is how a health plan works, or, Hey, this is how you buy your first home, or, Hey, this is what a checkbook is, and how do you how do you run it, you know, or, Hey, if all of your vendors are in 30 day notice, but your, your customers don't pay you for 90 days, what do you do for those 60 days like that, there's just a ton of that kind of education that life has to kind of teach you and, and so, for me, I am always real appreciative of the days that I get to actually help people and, and make a difference in what they're doing.

 

Leighann Lovely  38:45

Right. And you, you are very much an advocate of, you know, employees, and, you know, creating and fostering healthy work environments, just through your, your past experience of being a business owner, and now, you know, trying to, you know, offer as much assistance in, in training for, you know, the benefits that you offer, and that's awesome. I actually, you were recently on a another podcast, where you talked about,

 

Ben Zang  39:20

oh, sure. Defining leaders. So I think one of the conversations I was in was, you know, we're hiring. We're bringing people up in our organizations that haven't necessarily had any management training. And, and what they, what they have is the ability to show up, right? And availability is sometimes the biggest ability that you can have in a business, but it doesn't mean you've necessarily been prepared for the role you've been thrust into. And so, I think called culturally and From a leader and owner perspective, you have to really bring those people up. And then you have to help them find a way to find the training, they need to be able to do the job as they do. And one of the things that I have very much enjoyed, and have a, it's been a gift in my life as the network of people that I deal with on a daily basis. You know, I'm always around financial advisors, I'm around CPAs, I'm around HR professionals, and they all make me smarter. And so there's that saying, if you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room. Let's just say I'm never in the wrong room. So

 

Leighann Lovely  40:45

I love that saying, I love that thing. And absolutely. Well, not that you're not that you're in the wrong room. I'm just saying that that's the greatest thing. Because yeah, you always want to try to level yourself up, right? Learning from other people.

 

Ben Zang  41:00

Well, and that ability to when you bring somebody new up to the organization, they're, they're passionate, and they care about the very organization you're trying to build. But they may not they may not have been able to talk to an employee, they may not know what a deductible is, and suddenly, they're, they're in charge of a health plan. So it's, it's an interesting conversation when I get to work with those people, because then it's not just about the health plan. It's about, Hey, how can I help you in your organization? What resources can I get to you, I worked with a business that was looking to hire an executive to manage kind of as an operations manager. And the owner herself hadn't defined the role well enough that she was going to get out and get a bigger talent than was needed for the role she actually wanted to do. And so it wasn't that she needed that role filled, she needed to be able to find the roles she needed, filled in her company. And I was able to give her to a good friend of mine who helped her walk through job descriptions, how do you create these kinds of things? Because sometimes it's the basics that help you build a company that grows quickly. And a lot of times companies that are kind of hit with that growth cycle, where they have grown so fast, that instead of having a system underneath them, they have Betty or they have Judy, and one of the things you'll hear me say often is probably that he is not a system. Put your systems in the bus or lottery test, depending on which cup half full or half empty, you know that he's hit by a bus? What happens to your system, right Betty wins the lottery and decides she's going to be on a beach. What happens to your system,

 

Leighann Lovely  43:03

right? Yep. I was recently talking. I was recently talking with somebody who. And actually, she she was on my podcast, she came on and she was talking to me about Ron, she was asked to come in and help her dad run his business. And she said when she came in, everything was being run on, you know, a Rolodex and on a whiteboard. And she goes, what, what happens when the whiteboard gets wiped off or cleaned off? And I was like, Oh, my God, she goes, Yep, there we go all the records. How would somebody be running a business like that? But you're right. And, and to your point of, you know, what happens if Betty gets hit by a bus. And for some reason, I always go with the karma bus. But I am a half, I am a girl, either, it's got my glass half full. And if it's not at least half full, I'm refilling it. It's really bad when it's got alcohol in it, because by that time, I'm falling over anyways. I am a definitely a process person. And there are a lot of industries out there that struggle with that, because for so long it was hold your processes close to the chest, or they're going to fire you if you if you give them what your processes are, because then now you're gonna you're no longer gonna be as valuable. And that was very much the way that a lot of manufacturing, those are they're still old school in that sense, where some of the the baby boomers, they don't want anybody to know what their processes are. It's not so much in the office settings anymore, but that's still the way it is on the manufacturing floor with some of these guys who are running these CNC machines and some of the is no legacy machines. I think we're finally getting away from that being like the trend. But you're right, there are still some old school companies that are like, hey, no, we can just do it the way that it's always been done. And you're like, Whoa, whoa, wait a second, it's like you have to have, and that is also also a cultural thing. And if you are not actively working on your culture at a company, if you are not actively trying to create and foster that culture, a culture will start to create itself. And that's usually created by the squeakiest loudest person in the room. And often, that is the negative people who are complaining and pissing and moaning.

 

Ben Zang  45:59

Oh, and I think part of part of what I deal with, when I come in, I look at an organization is I look at, do they want to change? Like, you look at that whiteboard instance that you gave, what you have, and you're like, how does that happen? And I can tell you exactly how that's happened is you have a very talented, creative, driven person who starts a business. Like, they want to manufacture that widget, well then, or know anything about anything else, but manufacturing that widget. And so a whiteboard is all they needed to manufacture that widget. And then the government says, oh, you should pay taxes, and oh, you should have health care. And all you should do all of these and don't forget your form, you know, 999, or whatever it is, and you need it in triplicate. And then suddenly a business owner goes, I don't know what you just said to me, like, what all I want to do is make widgets, right. And then you have to kind of see, you know, I've met a couple different people where the son and daughter are like, you know, this is the way dad does it. And this is going to be the way it is until the end of time. And then you say great, then that's, that's, that's your culture, and that's okay to, you know, we're old school, we like to do it by hand, right? Fine, then embrace your old school illness, you know, remove the barriers to those celebrations of old school,

 

Leighann Lovely  47:38

right? And that's in, that's fine. But there's gonna come a point where you're going to have a young kid that you really want to hire, and he's going to walk in and go, I can't work here. I really, I want to work on a computer, I want to do the newest and coolest technology. So they also have to understand that they're going to have some other major challenges, like, eventually, when they don't want to do some of the accounting or filing all of the the taxes and paperwork and they want to hire somebody, they're going to have to find a 60 year old to do it. Because a young 25 year old is not going to come in and say Sure I'll do it this way. They're gonna come in and go, nope, I need QuickBooks or I need the whatever system I need this system I need, blah, blah, blah, and they're gonna go, No, we don't have any of that. And they're gonna go all them, I can't do it for you. So it's fine. You want if you want that to be your culture, just know that there is a possibility that your culture and your business could very well be obsolete in the next 10 years.

 

Ben Zang  48:45

Could I think of it like this, you know, there are restaurants that have three floors. And they have three or 300 seat restaurant. And then you have places like art and downtown, who's probably got maybe 20 seats. There's a different there's a different model in each. And I think if you look at art, and I don't think that gentleman is not successful, James Beard nominated shop. But he doesn't have the 300 seats that you have. There's a great book called The Subtle Art of not giving up. And I won't finish it, but there's it, it talks about the fact that and it says it in a little different terms. So I'll use my four year old voice. There's a poop sandwich and anything you do, you know, your job is to figure out if you can eat it, so to speak, money problems that whether you have it or you don't have it, it's you still got problems. And so any businesses like that So, you know, there's a saying of Be who you can afford to be. And if you're a legacy company, and you have a very niche product, and it doesn't matter, you're the only one they're going to pick it up from, you know, health care, Big. Big carrier insurance is not known for their customer and service. But you can't go anywhere without them. So it's that Be who you can afford to be. So, you know, I feel like I can afford to be, I have to be good. I have to be a good human. That's what I can afford to be. I'm rich enough to be a jerk to everybody. So nor do I live on my own private island. So, you know, I think being a good human is it's where we start. And where we end up.

 

Leighann Lovely  50:56

Right? No, and that, that absolutely makes sense. If you're going to be the little guy and you're starting out, you're going to have to be the the good. You're going to have to be good customer service, you're going to have to be absolutely if you're the Amazon of the world's Well, I don't remember a time when I I don't remember a week that I didn't order something from Amazon. It's just I mean, plain and simple.

 

Ben Zang  51:32

However, can that be lost? Can they lose? Absolutely. Absolutely. Things change. Don't think blockbuster ever thought they were going to lose.

 

Leighann Lovely  51:44

You're right. You're absolutely right. Blockbuster at the time was the only place to go to get your movies. That was the only place.

 

Ben Zang  51:56

I mean, and the gentleman that started Netflix started it because he had like a $70 late fee on a video.

 

Leighann Lovely  52:05

I did not know that. But yeah, I mean, the the entire story of blockbuster, they refuse to change with the times. And by the time they did, it was too late. Everybody was on Netflix, everybody. And I hung on to Blockbuster as long as I possibly could. And eventually I'm like, No, I'm gonna Netflix because they they even were bad. Even eventually became bad at that. It's okay, well, we are coming to time. And I have the question of the season. So if you could go back to your younger self and give yourself advice, when would you go back? And what advice would you give yourself?

 

Ben Zang  52:53

I would go back to when I was 20. And I would tell myself to practice adulting. Practices practice adults,

 

Leighann Lovely  53:04

I think, that's probably the best answer I've heard yet.

 

Ben Zang  53:09

Yeah. Because the things that we struggle with the big burning existence questions. You know, if you practice on adulting, you could simplify that pretty quick. Yeah. If you weren't letting the emergencies of life because you just didn't know get in the way. You could probably hug your kids more. Why flowers more? Yeah, yeah, things like that.

 

Leighann Lovely  53:41

I'd like flowers more. It's the amount of things that you don't know that you don't know. I mean, if I just sat down and started making a list of the amount of things from the time that I turned 18, and went to my pediatrician at 18. Hey, I would have been a good thing to know, before I made an appointment and then was embarrassed by my doctor saying, you're not supposed to be coming here anymore. Oh, where do we go? I mean, but if I sat down and really just was like, okay, the things that I that I didn't know that I had to learn in either an embarrassing way or that I had to call. Here's, here's a great story for you. Bree, I'll make it brief. Because this could be a long story. My My brother is very much like me, action oriented, action oriented. You know, something needs to get done. My brothers are actually more insane than me. They I don't know how they're older than me three years older than me and they have more energy than me. They're like little firecrackers. I remember my husband once told me that when he actually not too long ago. He was when I met your brothers. I thought they were insane. I'm like what they're so they're so even he'll he's like, even keel. He's like, Have you ever had a conversation with them? They stand in the middle of the room and rock. I'm like, oh, yeah, I guess I grew up with them. I'm like, I just, that's just normal. Like, they never really sit down and relax. Like, they're just those types of people. They're like, hyper active. always moving people. So anyways, my brother once called my dad and said, Hey, Dad, how do we make it out? My brother? was probably,I would say he's probably 25, maybe a little older toys that my dad called and said, Hey, Dad, how do I make pork chops? And my dad was sitting in front of, I think, one of his clients or something, my dad goes, Oh, yeah, pork chops. Oh, really easy. Put them in the toaster, drop them in there and just push the toaster button down. And when it pops up, they're done. And now, somebody on the other line is listening. Somebody who's sitting with my dad is, is listening to this. And he hangs up the phone. And my brother is just like, okay, obviously, my brother didn't do this. But he got the indication that Oh, Dad's, you know, in a meeting or whatever. But my dad's claim goes, you didn't really just tell your son to cook pork chops in a toaster ditch. But it's like the simple things of like, you get out you get out into the real world and the things that you don't know how to do. It's insane.

 

Ben Zang  56:44

It is

 

Leighann Lovely  56:45

it's an obviously that's part of growing up. But, and I could go on and on with the list of shit that my brother, like, Hey, brother, get your mail out of the mailbox, because there's actually important stuff that gets mailed to you. He used to just get it out of the mailbox and throw it directly into the garbage. Never even open it and he lost a check that way from the government that he actually then had to have them re issue, which was, you know, a huge thing. Anyways, he's he's a simplify guy. Like, I don't want to have to deal with this. He was a bachelor for a really long time anyways. So yes, I think so far this season, that is probably the best answer. Because if you were to ask a kid nowadays, what is a, you know how to write a check? They would say there are some kids out there. And when I say kids, I'm talking about 20 year olds, they would go What's the check?

 

Ben Zang  57:46

Well, here's, here's the other piece of advice I would give myself to is I would start investing while I was young. Yeah. Nobody ever tells you that this money thing. Your lack of an ability to manage it, beginning or ending is going to come back. And that the the throwaway years are really x experience throw away. They're not necessarily financial throwaway years.

 

Leighann Lovely  58:18

Yeah, I wish I would have definitely done that. Yeah. Well, hey, Ben, this has been an amazing conversation. You You've definitely had some awesome experience. Well, now, Ben, this is on your second career, you know, coming from a completely different industry and you know, now moving into where you're at, and I love hearing that story. And yeah, it's just been really fun. So thank you so much for joining me today.

 

Ben Zang  58:53

I appreciate you having me out. This has been a fun.

 

Leighann Lovely  58:59

Thank you again for listening to Let's Talk HR. I appreciate your time and support. Without you the audience this would not be possible. So don't forget that if you enjoyed this episode, to follow us, like us or share us. Have a wonderful day.

 

Linkedin – https://www.linkedin.com/in/benzang6/

 

E-mail - ben@thbwi.com

 

Website – www.thbwi.com

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SUMMARY KEYWORDS

people, business, restaurant, benefits, called, company, conversation, absolutely, culture, doctor, business owner, restaurant industry, dad, healthcare system, growing, point, run, big, employee benefits, ben