The Terrible Terrible New Orleans Justice System

So this is a good morning, Comrade show with Aaron. Robert. We tried to get Jeff in here cause Jeff's in Virginia doing his. His labor work, but due to limitations, there are a lot of limitations. self-imposed, limitations not anything to do with WHIV, but we can't get him in. So we'll try to get him in next week. I got to move my mic so it's going to sound ridiculous for a second. OK. That's the thing about the station. There's no delay. It's either hot, you're hot or not. Yeah, like that's just how it works. Yeah. So last week. We couldn't be live because I couldn't get to the station. We don't have bumper music again because I'm ill prepared because it don't. I have. What I need, like all the stuffs at home, I have a whole recording set up at home. That's why we don't have number music but some of my favorite podcasts don't. Have number music which? Ones, there's the one with the naughty word that's not around anymore. They broke up all the comics. 

Oh, yeah, yeah, they were. They were notorious for being really well prepared for that. 

They were just they would just come in and their levels would just be insane. They even joked. I remember. What's his face? Even jokes like the last episode should just be them lowering their levels lower and lower throughout, like the three hours until it just goes out. It's like that would be a good way to end the show. But yeah, I. Couldn't get in the studio last week because the key got demagnetized. 

We had a fight before because I am notoriously late for everything. I was not going to be late for the show. I just want to maintain that Robert did think I was going to be late and we had a tiff about it. 

Well, almost. 

We couldn't even do the show. 

We almost did the same thing this morning. You were like, why are you yelling at me to wake up and like nobody's yelling? 

He was. 

No, you were yelling, and then you wake up like. Every time you wake up, it's like you're having some kind of a. So it's like how am I supposed to wake you up like I? Can't wake you up any other way like but I didn't. 

Yeah, I know. Wake. Up sweating. I really hate waking up. 

I don't know if. That's the dog or. 

But for you people, I am here. I made it. I'm doing great. 

My goodness. I feel bad about this bumper music though. I paid for this bumper music for so I could use it everywhere. I paid for the license and can't even get it on our live radio show. But yeah, this is our our weekly I feel. Like we're kind. Of starting over without Jeff, and I feel like bye, Jeff. I feel like we just like, yeah, just reintroduce everybody. This is our weekly politics show where we talk. About how to end all wars and how. 

We can not talk about how to add the words. 

Communism will win. 

I have no ideas. On how to add dollars that is like not. 

I know I just read that off the wall. That's our mantra here at W. HIV and in the worst. 

I want all wars to end, but I don't. Know how to do it? That's for. 

You know you haven't figured. 

That's for brighter minds than mine. 

That out yet? 

They didn't teach you that in two lane social works. We're supposed to be a master, a master of social work. Do they? Do they handle that in the doctoral program? Program or what? 

Probably, yeah. 

And ours. That's going to be your. 

Too late, too. Lane is notorious for their progressive values. 

Just make that your math when you go for your doctorate, you just. 

Make that your thesis of my doctorate. 

You're done with that now. 

No, I'm. I'm not done with school. For those of you don't know, I'm a. Social worker and. And I'm thinking of going back to school to be a sex therapist. Just been thinking that for a while, very, I think I'd be good at it, but that's. Not my doctorate. 

Just let her think that she's going to go do some work on a native reservation. That's the plan. 

My God, you should probably say why. That's the plan. 

Because you want to have an animal sanctuary. 

Oh yeah. 

That's a good way to do it. 

That is not enough contacts Robert met with. An individual via his his job this week, who is from a reservation out in the Midwest to. You know. Shop talk shop. I don't. 

He wanted to stop by because he was just he was here for, you know, he was just in New Orleans. A little casual visit to New Orleans to talk about the rape and sex trafficking and murder of indigenous women at a conference that they had so casual convo when it, you know, you can. 

You know, just a little chitchat. 

It just tells the story. He just drops about. Unfortunate daughter being raped and murdered. That's why he gives these talks and I I know I'm like I'm joking about the casualness of it, but like. I guess the way like he he tells the story so his brain doesn't fracture like he tells it that casually. And you're just like. 

Oh yeah, it's it's rough trauma. Trauma really does a lot, but so Robert has decided that he is going to move out there to be tribal police, and then I will be a social worker on the reservation. 

Yeah, absolutely. 

Neither of us have any sort of tribal affiliation. 

It's OK. So what is? 

Apparently that's not needed. 

No, I'll just do my current job. I'll just be public relations. 

Yeah, further. 

And for the for the people out there. 

And I guess I will be a stand in for the state as a social worker. 

It's gonna be in Minnesota, too. 

Working in child production. 

So you ready for those Minnesota winters? 

Oh Lord now. 

It's going to be great and get a Husky. We're going to make a a igloo for the Husky. That's where he'll live outdoors. 

And I would just like a Husky, actually. 

See see. 

Alright, you're making it fine. 

It's working on you. 

OK, fine. All right. Hi everybody, we're. 

It's it's terrific. We're. Going to Arizona, I mean, yeah, we're in Arizona. We're going to Minnesota. This guy was like, you know, he's a cool guy. Like, I hope to visit him again. I hope to go to their powwow this summer or. But he had like, the thickest, like, straight out of central casting Fargo like. Yeah, he had, like, a Minnesota accident. It was so wild. He sounded like Bobby generics, mom. From Bobby's world? 

Oh yeah, yeah. 

Don't you know? Straight out of Prairie home companion but. Yeah, but also tragic and terrible. It's it's it's. Yeah, it's really like it's a bunch of people. It was, it was amazing. We talked about the his reservation and we talked about New Orleans and like how similar. Like community, you know, everybody knows each other. I'm sorry. I was like, really away from the MIC. Let me get closer. Everybody knows each other like it's a small community. And they just have a lot of the same issues and trials that we have here in the small, big city of Noah. 

Oh, I wonder if poverty has anything to do with it. 

A lot, or capitalism? 

Capitalism, poverty. 

More like capitalism and stolen land? 

Systemic disenfranchisement. 

It's it's. When you try to rip away. People's culture and. Just make them act like they, you know, just take their culture away like they don't exist. You might have issues. Well, it's just honestly, like we talked about that at work. It's like this the stuff that's hitting, you know, everybody's like, let's take new ones for example. You know, crime in New Orleans is so bad. Drug and drug use in New Orleans is so bad. Homelessness is so bad. Yeah, like New Orleans is feeling it before a lot of other places, but like. These indigenous like populations have been feeling it for decades, and nobody cared. But now it's it's hitting all of us, you know, all all the, all the things that you know, capitalism and and, you know. I was trying to be cute, Pax Americana. The American Empire has, you know, all the suffering it's brought to its subjects is now coming to bear on all of us. 

And I. Feel so something I think about with a lot of shame from high school is I had one teacher and I can't remember her name. She was a white woman. I don't know if she was tribal affiliated or not. But she was so she tried so hard to get all of us extremely privileged. AP Level white kids in this literature class to understand the play or how terrible the United States has been to natives in this country. Had half the books we had to read were had something to do with Native Americans. I remember she talked about Leonard Peltier. So much like so much, and Leonard Peltier, for those who don't know, is currently in jail for. Leonard Peltier is. I feel like I let me let me look it up. So I'm telling you the. 

Do it, Google it, but I'll tell you why you do that. 

Wrong the wrong information. 

I tell you that everything you, you have more, you have more knowledge than I do. Because everything I know about, you know, indigenous communities is from, I saw the movie smoke signals as a kid. UM. I am on native TikTok, so that's nice. And then also Yellowstone. Which apparently the the guy I met, the guy who works the the guy from Minnesota, he says that Yellowstone is like the best show of all time. Like he he was like, I was like. Do you like this? And he was like, uhm yes, it's amazing. Because he said that the advisors that they have on it, it's like the episode about, you know, Indigenous women. Being you know. Being kidnapped and and raped and murdered from tribal land is like complete he's like, that's exactly how it happens. And I'm like what? I'm like that this seems exaggerated. Like this seems insane and he's like, Nope, that's that's what happens. And I'm like, that's crazy. 

Statistically, it's like, really, really awful. And that's it's not interesting, but it's, you know, it's something because it's. Just the US problem, it's not just reservations in the United States. It's also reservations in Canada. So they have a huge problem with that, which is, you know it. 

I think. 

Just indicative of how terrible colonialization was for for this entire continent, just really awful. But yeah, I did OK. I was correct. I was going to give you all correct information. 

Please tell us. 

So Leonard Peltier, he could be considered a or is not to be considered, is a political prisoner. He was part of the American Indian movement. And he was kind of a Native American activist, and there was they had. A run in with the FBI, he was accused of shooting an FBI agent. You know, it's very controversial because it he probably didn't shoot the FBI agent. It was a very, very biased trial and he's been in prison for the last 45 years and I'm. I I want to say in the 90s, a lot of celebrities were like. Really, like really on the really on the Leonard Peltier train. 

I've never heard of this man. 

But I have not heard his name said in quite a long time. But except for that teacher, and we all just thought she was so weird. For caring so much, and now my little bleeding heart self as a 35 year old, I'm like oh damn, I would be the exact same way and and all those kids would have made fun of me in the exact same way. But like good for her, she was like living her truth and this was. In the early 2000s, when no. One was woke. What? 

They made fun of her. Now, though, I wonder how kids are in school. 

They wouldn't. They went in every movie. Yeah, cause like we things just. It was like the IT was the type of next bus. It was not a good time in the world you know. 

We are in. I mean, I know that we're talking about stuff that's really dark right now and we're talking about stuff like normally we're talking about things that are just like. Serious issues and problems in the. 

World but. 

We do have to like sometimes take a step back and just realize we do live in the best moment in human history, like as bad as it is on a on a micro level. If you like. 

It's pretty bad on a macro level too, but no, it's not as bad, but it's not great. 

No, we really do live. And what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to give people some kind of hope. Our team is definitely winning like team justice, team social justice, you know, all social, all US social justice warriors out there. Like we're definitely winning like this is the last like people are going to suffer. People are going to die as as capitalism caves in on itself and it's not going to be in our lifetime, but we're definitely. Set the foundation we're we're we're winning. And that's why. 

Yeah, I think Jen Z Jensen's going. To do it. 

That's why you're hearing. That's why there's so much pushback against things that are have. I mean, you think about the things in American culture that have been normal. I don't mean. To jump all over the place. But the things that American culture have been normalized for since we were children. You know, we're middle-aged now and like drag shows, like all of a sudden there's this like thing about all the drag shows are grooming what like? Fractions have been around forever, but now reactionaries are bringing this stuff up because they're losing. They're grasping at straws. They're they're they're old. Worn out tiger with a broken tooth. You know, in a in, in a cage. And they're just like swatting at anything. They're they're they're a better. A better analogy is they're drowning in the middle of the ocean and everything looks like land, and they're just trying to greet. They're trying to reach out for something. And they're losing. 

I'm I'm not fully off Twitter, but I I decided to take a step back because it was kind of ruining my life. Just I was just really mad all the time about everything and. I don't know why, but I've decided to substitute going on to the next door app instead. And just like just being very aggressively challenging to all of the the old white people in my neighborhood who have deeply strong feelings about how Zulu parks do. 

I gotta get you on Ring 2. Hasn't that smoke? 

There are events which for those of you not in New Orleans, we live and also the station is is very close to the Zulu headquarters, which is a a big, very influential black social crew here in the city. And when they have parties, they tend to park on the neutral grounds. The median for those. Not not. General area, which is technically illegal, but you can get permits to park there, so we don't know if they have park permits or not, like we don't know. We know the inner workings, but it's also quite likely because they are so influential that the city probably just turns a blind eye out of all the things going on. I don't really blame them. I don't. I don't care what other. 

I just don't care. 

I just don't care. But anyway. But people at next door care so deeply, so very deeply. And I just, it's just funny to me to. Make them mad. Yeah. And then you know that that sent me down a rabbit hole going down these other next door posts and some man was mad because his $1000 pressure washer got caught, got got stolen, and the police came and they had video footage and they knew who did it. And they just never prosecuted. So I responded to him that it cost $25,000 to bring a case. Fully to trial. And so it's just not a good use of public funds to prosecute him for his $1000 loss. And you would have thought I. You would have thought he called me a bad person who doesn't care about anybody else who is obviously not from here, and who is just really happy to see people suffer. 

That's exactly it. 

That's me. That's me and Michelle. 

Happy to see people suffer. 

I am not from here. So he he was correct on that. He was also not from here. And he did. This person did say median instead of neutral ground. 

I am happy to see that I. Got suffered. I'm not. 

Happy, but I don't care. 

Ask them. There's a thing and there's. An order of operations. 

I'm like, I'm just neutral about it. 

So I don't care. 

Like that sucks because that is a lot of money and I would be very upset if something of mine. Sure, it was $1000 but so. You know, I do try to walk the walk when it comes to my belief on abolition and so again, for those of you haven't listened. I am. I'm a abolitionist. I do not believe that our current prison system or court system or just really anything about the judicial system, is something that functions. But it's so signing to me that. You know these people, these reactionaries. It's like they have so much problem with their cause, you. I'll go in. I'll go into any conversation there because I I'm generally like a not confrontational person, and I also do believe in everybody can grow and learn. I was a I was a. I was gonna say a a bad word an S Lib. 

Ohh yeah, they're the worst. 

When I was in high school. 

That was a bad word. Sorry for. 

I was. I started the young Democrats at my high school. I've I volunteered for John Kerry's campaign like. You know I. I have grown as a person, so I'm willing to give other people that that space and time. But they get so angry when you suggest that. OK, well, we should probably be putting more money into to social, or let's not even say social programs. We should be putting money into replacing the lead pipes and paint in this city. We are all basically just mainlining lead into our bloodstream and it costs money and people get so mad at you when you suggest using. Public money for stuff like that. But then they expect the world to just bend over backwards when they personally have been inconvenienced because it's it's as if they don't think that the court system costs money. And yeah, likely OK a case like that of someone stealing $1000 pressure washer. It's not a misdemeanor anymore because the the amount that the pressure washer is. Makes it a felony, so theoretically that person would be arrested if they can't make bail, then the the city is now on the hook for paying for their room and board in jail. Then you have to pay. You know, judges make salaries. All the court staff make salaries. There's like 3 appearance hearings before they decide whether they accept the charges or not then. Once they've accepted the charges, then if the person can't pay, they have to pay a public defender. Then you know they have to. There's just so much money that goes into a court case that I think people don't understand, and it's like always these people who are so anti public money being used for anything that could possibly benefit someone who isn't them. But they are more than more than happy to have the money go towards locking up an individual which won't do anything. Help anybody else in the in the long run, because like a person's not going to get a long term sentence. For stealing something that was only $1000. And they're going to be out and both Robert and I have worked at the jail and can tell you that it is not a. Rehabilitative environment. 

More. Yeah, almost. I'm away. 

From the finish, we're good. 

Oh yeah, so. And I think, you know, I think I know that Robert just had a pretty significant experience with the the court system recently that. Has been. Weighing on him. 

It's pretty bad. But what I'm hearing you say is well before we get get into more of that, you're listening to one or 2.3 W HIV, New Orleans end all wars. So what I'm hearing you say is you, I'm use your therapist language. What I'm hearing you say is that you want to do the multi generational. Heavy lift of creating a society to where somebody doesn't feel incentivized to steal $1000 pressure washer. And that's the thing that people don't want to do. Like we were just having that we were having that talk at work the other day. About, you know, gun violence because you know, it's it's America. There's mass shooting every day. And they were like, well, it's mental health and I go. So did you vote for Bernie once or twice? Since you're so concerned about people's. Healthcare. Ohh you didn't. Ohh OK, so you really don't care about this? Because I'm not saying like Bernie Sanders was the NOBO obviously wasn't just like a Social Democrat, but I mean, like, I don't want to talk. I don't want to talk about things like mental health or like like like. If we're not going to create the society where people can get mental health like, that's not an excuse. 

And also like people say that as and again they are so anti funding these social services and I'm like OK, so I make I've never made more than 30. 

It's absolutely. 

Years I never made even, even up to $30.00 in my career. So I'm saying for let's say I I've averaged about $25.00 an hour. So for $25.00 an hour I am supposed to fix the rampant crime in the city is what you're saying. 

Yeah, you're supposed to take out all the trauma. 

I'm supposed to be the one to fix it. And which is like a wild, wild thing to think, but. Yeah. Like, OK, so. A couple months ago we had a porch pirate and we have a ring and so. I my package got stolen. I was like. Oh man, that's. 

We tell you, New Orleans, they don't. Care nothing about that ring. 

They really don't. 

Wave at it. 

They will. They will. They really will. 

But so yeah, if I was like, oh, wow, no big deal reordered my stuff. 

We'll say hello to it. 

It comes the same person stole my reordered package and I I'm not going to lie and say I did not have a breakdown over it because it felt like the universe was just like mad at me. For some reason. It was. It was the the. Camel that broke. The straw that broke the camel's back in a long. Time of like bad things but. Guess who I didn't call? The New Orleans Police Department, because number one, they would laugh in my face because, like, they would send an officer out like four days later, which, you know, they're very understaffed. And secondly, what am I getting? I'm going to send someone to jail for my American eagle bikini bottoms like that. I didn't actually need, no. No, I will not. No, I will not. 

So we're not. Yeah, we end up having, like, a neighborly talk. And it was like a whole extenuating, extenuating circumstances. And it doesn't. It didn't happen again, actually sadly got that. I saw that guy get arrested. I saw the cops chase him down our block, and I was like, whoa, well. 

Not not for us. 

Not for us. We didn't call him. 

And I'm assuming it's for something else because like there is zero chance anyone else. Peace officers, we're going to. Chase somebody's package. 

I don't know. This guy looked like he looked very and I hate to be stereotypical, but he looked. Very like new like. 

Oh, no. Yeah. 

You know what I mean? 

Like he was gung ho to, like, make a collar like so. Who knows? I don't. Know, but he he. Because like I went into somebody's backyard and that cop went to that backyard and like 5 minutes later. He like emerged with that dude in handcuffs, and I was like, Dang, yeah. 

Damn well. You're back. 

So it's not been that crazy, but. So over the past couple weeks. What Aaron alluded to was I had. I was on the trial, I was a juror on the trial of Kendall Barnes and Derek Groves. Who are. I guess when you say like, I feel like I'm. I don't. 

Are you allowed to talk about it? 

Ohh yeah, absolutely. I can talk about it. I'm just gonna ruin. I wish we had broad reach so I could just ruin everybody in New Orleans and like, nobody could could be during this trial again because, like, spoiler alert, it was another mistrial. And they'd have to, like, go out. Well, maybe that that. Would probably be the worst thing. For them, actually. But my point is like I'm trying to figure out how to tell this story, but I guess I'll just I guess I'll just start and tell it. They're already convicted of these murders, and I assume they were already Angola. I'm not 100% positive on that, but I didn't know that till after we all got kicked off the jury after there was a mistrial. 

Yeah, their their first trial was. It happened. It was a non unanimous jury and and it was a non unanimous jury that that found them guilty. So they were in the appeals process when the the state voted to get rid of non unanimous juries. So because they were in the appeals process, it basically just kicked it back down. 

To the regular. Oh, it doesn't activate that for everybody. 

No, no, I don't. 

I didn't know. That ohh wow. 

I don't. At least I don't think that other. 

Really, I didn't know, OK. 

I think it's like moving forward. I think every other one was grandfathered in. 

Alright, Yikes. 

It is a. Yikes. 

Ex post facto law. I know I'm saying that wrong, but I just remember that being a funny thing to say in. High school social studies, that's like ex post. Facto, it's like when there's when there's a law. You can't be convicted. When there's when there's a new law, you can't be convicted of it from past stuff you did or whatever, but yeah. So anyway, the point is so people who live here in New Orleans. And in 2018, there was a mass shooting. In the lower 9th Ward, you know when you cross the canal, you're on Saint Claude and you cross the canal and you go. I don't know. Maybe another mile down the road on Saint Claude. And there is an abandoned cleaners and abandoned gas station. Kendall Barnes and Derrick Rose were convicted of the state says that they they walked up to this party on Marty. There was a huge party, they. Walked into the party on Mardi Gras. And they they were trying to kill this one dude. And then it was spraying the whole crowd and like two people got killed or something. And the guy they were shooting at was busting back at them with his AK47 and they had AK-40 sevens and then somebody was shooting a 45 and then somebody was shooting A9 mil and. It's just a a huge mess and they were convicted 10/2. And so, like Aaron said, they we got rid of the garbage or garbage juries and then went to unanimous. Like a civilized society. And so they got kicked back and now they they have a retrial. I don't know any of this going into the trial, obviously, because I don't. I don't know them. I don't know of. That's why I was like a perfect juror. So anyway. So here's the deal with this trial. Jason Williams, our DA here, prosecuted himself our progressive DA and I was like, OK, well, this must be serious. 

A progressive da. 

Like, whatever. Let's let's do it. Brought a case before us where? In short, the state didn't have a murder weapon. Like I mentioned, all those guns that that were shot off, the only gun they recovered was the gun from the guy who got shot at. Who? The AK47 he shot back at them, but there's over 100 shell casings on site, so like a lot of rounds got squirrels off. But I understand they don't have. The murder weapons. I guess they don't have the the two, the two guns. They don't have any other guns except for that one. I get that right. You know, you throw them in the canal. You do whatever you get somebody to hold them, like, whatever. But so I understand that, but still it's a big deal. Don't have that. The only eyewitnesses they have that can confirm that they were there were the guy who got shot, who was already. Serving time for drug, a drug case and then by testifying for, you know, the state becoming states witness they become, they get their sentence lowered. I don't care about that. The the whole like, oh, you're turning state snitch witness like, whatever. That's fine. I know. That's that's just how it. Works that way. Tell the truth. So we got again, we got no murder weapon, we got state snitch. And then. No other physical evidence, right? Now the defense is going to produce a they produce a picture of the two defendants, the convict, the, you know, the convicts. They've already been convicted. The two defendants on Mardi Gras day. An hour before the killing on Bourbon Street. Now you can totally make it from Bourbon Street to the lower 9th in way less than an hour. The problem with that is, though, where did they park on Mardi Gras night? Because to get from Bert to walk from Bourbon Street to wherever they were going to park and then they would have to have, they would already have to have their guns in the car and then to drive to. The lower now that's a stretch. And then you've got NYPD detectives saying. Well, they that picture could be faked because they could have, you know, they they could have posted to an Instagram story and had it released later. And my first thought is, well, you're the detective. You have the metadata of the like. Where did the picture come from? Because the picture itself has metadata, so why? Why are we talking about this Instagram picture? You should be able to find where. The what phone? The picture came from. So right there, like when you have no physical evidence, you've got a snitch eyewitness, you've got the defense. Like with probable reasonable doubt of like they might not have been able to make it. And then you've got states witness of a. NYPD detective. Saying what the defendants could have done possibly like. Like we're in trouble. Like when you combine all that together. That's not guilty. That's your. Those guys are supposed to be walking down Tulane Ave. 

So that's what we call a reasonable. 

That's a reasonable doubt. So there were a lot of reasonable doubts. And so I'm sitting here in the jury just getting madder and madder by as days go by. Because I'm sitting here having to look at pictures of dead bodies and pictures of bodies that's torn apart by. By 762 rounds that come out, you know, assault rifle rounds. And I'm just like, why am? Why is this case going forward? Why am I looking at this case? Whatever. So. The first thing that happens is, oh, it's a 30. After I'm going to go ahead before we get into Chapter 2 here, I'll do a promo. We're going to do a PSA. Experts agree that having a family emergency plan and emergency care are the best ways to be prepared for severe weather. Preparing an emergency plan for your family is not complicated. If your family is separated when disaster strikes, having a planned in advance will help you to get to know how to contact one another and get back together after the storm. Passes emergency supplies and First aid kit are easy to assemble and smart ways. You can prepare for severe weather, another community service reminder from your friends at 102.3 FM W. HIV, New Orleans. So like I said, I'm getting madder and madder and I'm like what is going on here. Why is this even? And why is this even in front of me in front of all all twelve of us? And we're not supposed to talk about the case? But you put 12 strangers in a room. Like what else are we going to talk about? And so my I'm already in my head of I'm thinking, you know, if I have to sit here and and fight and hang this jury, I will. But there's at least four other people. Including myself, who are just like this is terrible. Like unless unless they. The the state shows us something like these. There's no way we're convicting these guys. 

Yeah, cause you can. You have to weigh like the conviction is you're sending them to Angola for life. 

Angola's hard labor forever. 

Yeah, no girl, so. I don't know if you all have been to Angola, whether for the rodeo or what, but it is not a good spot to be. 

Right. So I mean, we were even and the ones who were like already, like myself were hard on like the not guilty side where we were sitting there just like. We don't even think they didn't do it. We're just like this case is awful. I don't understand why it's in front of us. They have a FBI agent that they bring in from Mississippi that used to work here at the field office over by. By Suno in the east and they start talking about the stuff that you know and they're like, oh, we've had them under surveillance for XYZ for like years now. Well, as soon as she says that, that activates mistrial because you can't talk about, you know, other crimes that they could have could or maybe haven't committed. 

It's it's prejudicial. 

Right, so they send us home Friday night. Stop the trial. Full stop. Do not you know, pass code cannot collect $200.00 they send us home Friday night. They're like, we'll call you, they. Call us Saturday being like you got to. Come in. So hey, so. What happened was, and I did. Still don't know any of this, but I know after the fact is that mistrial went up to the Louisiana Supreme Court. Louisiana Supreme Court kicked it back and said, Nah, y'all can trial is trying this case. So we're doing the case. OK. And then it comes out that one of the jurors has read news articles about the case. And so now miss trial sticks and trial over. So only after that do I find out when I'm so angry now. Like, why am I here? I'm here on a Saturday. I'm traumatized by this thing. Was, you know, this is awful. Why is this case in front of me? This is awful for, you know, the defendants is awful for the family of the victims. Well, I find out about the non unanimous juries. So now you've got. RDA you know Jason Williams is stuck having to try. He's he's stuck trying to having to try a trial, try a case that he didn't even bring forward. 

Not stack. He could have chosen to not retry. It that's. 

But can you though? 

His. Yeah, that's. 

That's the thing. But you can't. You can't. Not as an elected not. Like, there's no way. Like you can't just let those guys walk down too lane. Like you can't, like, would that be the thing to do to? Would that be the 100%? I understand what you're saying. Yeah, he totally has the power to do that. Yeah, and. Do you just? Say we don't have enough evidence. In this case, you know well, and then they go down to lane. Well, the first thing somebody's going to say is they had enough evidence back then. When they got a conviction. 

With the non unanimous story. 

Right. But they still got a conviction and then you can't just. You can't just let them stroll. 

Well, so instead they are strolling and Oh yeah. 

So now you've got to try the case. No, I'm not strolling. 

They're in there, no. 

JC right now awaiting another trial. 

No. So that's really. Good, which from our time working at ojc the amount of people who were. 

Oh yeah. 

Incarcerated there. While still awaiting trial, so technically not having been convicted was wild. There was someone who was in there for 9 years without a conviction, which is. 

Absolutely. Yeah, it's crazy. 

If this was any other country, we'd be like there'd be like a very worried. 

They would call it a gulag. 

Order, yeah. 

They would call JC A. 

Yeah, just. 

You can go in there, not. 

The conditions are less, less than optimal here at ojc. 

Yeah, you can go in there. And not even be booked. Yeah, and just get lost in there. 

Oh, that happened to a friend. Of mine, yeah. He was like, yeah, not going up, not going up. 

To the. 

Tear to the tear cause like once you're. Up there, you're just lost. So one thing we want we talked about is because I was actually a little surprised at how hard you took everything just because, I mean, if I had to see sit on trial and see dead bodies, I would be a nightmare mess. I cannot. I can't even watch violence on TV. It's it's super super. Sensitive to that. But you. Grew up with LiveLeak. You've seen people beheaded, and so. 

Have the heads. Cut off, yeah. 

And when I say affected, I mean, I felt I was actually, I had a planned trip to visit my mom over the weekend, so I was gone for a little bit of this and you know. Talking to you on the phone was just. You know, you were really affected and it's, you know, in a way that you're not very frequently and so. I'm curious as to if you thought about that about because you went in kind of not thinking that this was going to be that big of a deal for you and. I mean not to like put your business out there, but you got back in therapy afterwards. 

I didn't. I mean, I didn't think I'd be picked for one, but when I objectively like, take a step back, I am. I'm kind of the. Perfect. Drawer like I can separate and that's that. I think what you're going to ask me what I'm going to talk about. I don't want to steal your Thunder. Go ahead. 

No, no, please. 

No, because I was going to say. I think that's why it's hitting me. Lord, because I am kind of the perfect juror. The idea of I can separate. The thought of I don't think a lot of people can do. This not that I can like pat myself on the back or whatever, but I think my past of you know I was. It was a combination of things. My past of like I was in the Marine Corps and I did I, you know, was like a paralegal in the Marine Corps. And then also like. I was the the sheriff's deputy for, you know, New Orleans. So I know a lot about the legal system, and I can kind of like separate things in my head. So I think the idea that I could separate, I think these guys did this. I cannot. Send them away for the rest of their life. From what the what? The states given me. I that is what you're supposed to do. I don't think many people can. 

Do that, yeah. 

I don't think many people can do that, and it's the idea that I'm going to let I'm I'm going to sit here and fight. And give up my time and get emotional and argue. For people that I think are cold blooded murderers to go back on the street, it really kind. Of messes with. 

You and this is, I think, a huge. Part of you know, I think there's a lot of I don't want to say, like cosplay leftists, but there's a lot of people who maybe haven't had a lot of life experiences and haven't had to really. You know, challenge their beliefs so. 

Yeah, it does feel like my convictions slammed head head first into reality. And they got tested and I passed. 

Yeah, it did, but it still it messes with you. 

But yeah, it still weighs on me. 

You know, I I've been an abolitionist for a really long time. And I remember. And I went into working at the jail with the belief that I don't. Think this jail should exist? I just like, don't think it's and I have my beliefs challenged in there because, you know, the vast majority of the people I met, I was like, yeah, you should be in jail. There's, like way better options. There was a few people. There was like 4 people in the time I worked there that I was like. Oh, we have to do something with you. You can't. You can't just be out. And that's like, you know, that actually did keep me up at night. So I was like this is really, I don't believe in incarceration. I don't believe that we should be like locking human beings up. But I also was like oh. You can't be my neighbor because. Like you would, there was a few people that I was like, just even in our interactions within the. Jail that I was, I had 100% certainty that if there was not a very solid door between us, that that person would hurt me and wanted. To hurt me. 

That is the joke I always tell, like when we go to your friend and like, oh, yeah, you still like work in the jail. Like, how was that like blah blah? And I like. I'm barely joking. Like it's a joke. It's it's hyperbolic. But I'm barely joking because my my thing is, I say, OK, half the people in there are in there on dumb stuff and they need to. They need to leave tonight. We're letting, like, if I was. If I was Emperor of. New Orleans. So like we're letting half of y'all out tonight because you're in. Here for stupid stuff. I said now 40% of y'all I say and then 45% of y'all. Have done something really bad, but you're not bad people. You just need a time out from society. 

And like we need. Something that's actually really rehabilitative, yeah. 

Absolutely. And then I would and then I would say 5% of y'all summary execution tonight. We're just going sell. To sell and we're just shooting it up because. I'm I'm barely joking, because like what Aaron's saying is like, yeah, there's some people there's, like, there's nothing can be done with you. 

And it's it's really hard and. It's, you know, I'm saying this stunt judgment. 

Like I could never do if I was if I had that power to do that, I wouldn't. Do it like I can't. I can't like if I could hold if I got offered the Infinity Gauntlet, I would turn it away like I can't. I wouldn't wear. But you see the logic of what I'm saying. 

Yeah. And and. It's just it really does test your. Beliefs and it's. You know, can you still when you're going to face with that like, oh, this I think with you with this trial is knowing that like OK, like by letting these people walk, quote UN quote, you know? It's am I then complicit if somebody else gets hurt and I think and that's, I think. And I think that's what's so insidious about our judicial system is that it does. And I understand this is like how the founding fathers intended it, which OK, like they owned people. So let's not. Not to be all and all, but it's it's placing the responsibility of another human beings life on 12 innocent people who don't know the person and who so. And because you were saying that, you know, everybody was trying so hard to get out of. Being in the jury. But once they were on the jury, they you were really heartened because they everybody. OK, so seriously. 

Nuance has the best people, like I was terrified by the people who were like. Who were in the? Jury pool, but then actually, when the jury got picked, I was just like there were just twelve of the most diverse, like. Representations of our city. And there was just I I feel like a lot of people because, I mean, I don't know how to say it. There were a lot of like. Liberal are just kind of well to do, you know, white people who are just like, oh, I'm. A I'm a tax attorney or like stuff like that. Or I I, you know, I'm a. I can't think of a a, a therapist or whatever, and you know, and so one of the things that about the trial was we had a woman like salt of the Earth, you know, black lady. I can see her in my head right now. She's a she's a janitor and she, you know, she's missing out on work. 

She was missing out. On time, yeah. 

And like, it was awful. I felt so bad for her, but she had such insight like that woke these people up. It was just little things like. So they they pinged the the defendant cell phone as being near the scene. Around the time of the mirror, like after the murders and they were like, why? Well, why is that then? They were obviously in the area. They could have done this and they said the defense were like, well, we heard somebody, you know, our people text us or whatever and said like, oh, you know, someone so got shot and we went down there to see what happened and. People on the jury were like, why would you do that? Doesn't make any sense. They're lying. And the the janitor lady was like girl. I would do that. Are you kidding me? She's like I would go. Right down there. And I'm like, and they were like, what and? I'm like, yeah, that's what you do. 

Yeah, I mean, and not even being a local here, there's been a couple of times when we've had shootings on, like somewhere near our block and tell me why. 

I was like, yeah. 

It's like. Once let's say like 3 minutes have gone by, there's no more shootings. We're all out at our front door. What's what's going on? What's happening? Like hell. Yeah, you would go see. It like, yeah. So it's just it's, it's the system. Where we're we're. You can go in with these convictions, which is what you went in there with, but then you also. Then you're now faced with the victims and you're faced with, hey, like we're going to show you the violent photos of this. Like, what could happen again if these people are let out because and it's just it's such a. It's it's. It's another way that we're we're kind of fracturing. Kind of the working classes and and the non elites because. Like, oh, quote UN quote, they say, oh, it's a jury of your peers, you know, whoever. Can get. On but like who really gets on a jury like, like, is Elon Musk gonna serve on a jury? 

Oh, really good. Right. 

No, Jeff Bezos, no, he's going to find a way to get out of it. It's not. It's never going to be the people like the elites who are going to be serving on these juries. And so it's you're essentially asking. People to. To be the judge and jury of, you know, their neighbors, and without an understanding of the law and without. You know, knowing all this stuff, it's like, you know you, we've all watched those crime shows. It's like how many times have they had to like sidebar with the judge and some like wild piece of exculpatory evidence is brought up. 

That's exactly what's that's exactly this trial. It's like every 5 minutes. 

But like because there's like a procedural issue, they can't introduce it. And so like you're having asking 12 people to sit. And decide the fate of the this other person without having all of the information. And it's just. Like it's. It's honestly so wild to me and. The fact that it's so normalized is like I feel like I'm losing it every time I think about it because I'm just like, how is this? A better like everyone's like. Oh, well, like the try like the. Justice has prevailed in all of that, and it's like, what, how is that justice like now, you just have 12 people who probably have, like, trauma now because of of what they've heard. Word and having to live with the fact that either they let quote UN quote let someone walk or, you know, put them in Angola, which is. I wouldn't really want. 

The way I justify it is the way I in my head, and I even said this in bodour like when they're asking you, the judge and they're like, well, how do you feel? I'm like, look like you know about life sentences. I'm like, they shouldn't exist because life sentences make, you know, a dangerous for every everybody in the prison because you've got people that would know. Well, they have. No, they have no reason to to do right. 

When you're talking. 

About people who objectively you know, they're in this situation because they need a reason to do right. And it gives them no no reason to follow the rules or to to to to be a better person because they don't have any hope of leaving this place. And I said and go like, you know, you're it's the new slave state. Like you're up there, you know? 

It's a plantation, yeah. 

Having it's a plantation, you know you're doing hard labor for. The rest of your life. And that's not that's not an exaggeration. 

For those of you who don't live in Louisiana, it is an act it it's an act of plantation. 

Right. 

They grow. Cotton. Yeah, you. You can look up pictures of the most. 

Old Angola, Angola. As like a sick joke. Like, that's the whole reason it's called Angola. It's a it's a racist dogwhistle, but. You know, I'm thinking of that. And then I said. But here's the thing about it. That's not my concern right now. My concern is if if I get on the story, did they do it or did they not do it? If you get, I said and I look Jason Williams, right? Cause he was asking this question, I said I looked around and I said with all your power and all your all the power of. The New Orleans DA office, I said if you can't. Bring a case in front of me to where I don't have a reasonable doubt. Then they have to go, I said. But I have no I have no qualms about sending them to Angola. If they did this. And then after that I will, you know, become an activist, to change Angola. But this is the thing, collectively, that we've all decided right now. Like that conversation needs to, you know, is the criminal justice system, our prison system, our for profit prisons, you know, all this stuff. That that has to be sidebarred at this moment and we can pick it back up later. I have to focus on this. I can't bring any of that and they were like, oh, OK. And I know that's what put me. That's what got me on. For sure. But I mean it's fine, but it's true. Like that's the way I have to think about it. I think why this hit me so hard, you know, between like, all the violence I've been a part of and seeing throughout my life is that this one there was no separation like it was. This was on me, you know. And now you know, the best thing that could have happened was. If for me. Anyway, is if the state brings a case against these two, and it's just like this is all the evidence we have, this is ironclad evidence like they were. I'd be like, fine. OK, got him. But like you're bringing this in front of me, I'm. Like no way. And there was a woman on the jury. Like she's well. Meaning she wasn't doing it. But she's like, that's not fair. Like you haven't heard all the prosecution's evidence. Like you can't come to the I'm like, no, I'm like, this is exactly what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to walk in this room and be like they're walking out of here today. And then the prosecution is supposed to change your mind. I was. Like this is not a. Fair process. Like you're saying, it's not fair. It's not fair. It is. Skewed towards the defendant. So like, the scales are not bound like the scales start out where the defendant has all the weight. 

It's meant it's meant to be. It's meant to be. 

Yeah, it's meant to be like that. 

It's good. It's, I think in reality, it's often not from what I understand, these two defendants had private attorneys, so they probably had, you know, a better chance anyway. 

But that's what's supposed to happen. 

But generally, when you think about it and you know I'm biased, I worked for the public defenders office. I did my field placement and you know you have. This extremely well funded DA's office that has. They have inspect inspectors, they have investigators, inspectors they have. 

Yeah, I've got the FBI involved now that's. 

Yeah, they have. 

I'm thinking like the FBI, New Orleans DA. 

Like, they have really, really comfortable relationships with law enforcement. They have, you know. Facilities that aren't broken down, and I don't know if if y'all know the history of of public defense here in in Louisiana, but been specifically in New Orleans before Katrina, it was they didn't have dedicated public defenders. They had. They basically would just call in random defense attorneys and they they kind of had to do their time as a public defender. Or not even defense attorneys, just other attorneys. You might have an attorney. That's not. Doesn't isn't used to doing criminal defense. Number one, they might be like a tax attorney sometime else. Then you also have these attorneys who, even if they are criminal defendants, they're going to. Be coming up. With these judges against these judges for their paid, their paid clients, so they're not going to want to do anything to to rock the boat on that and they didn't have dedicated the, the, the Public Defenders Office was technically inside the. And so, like, you'd have multiple attorneys trying to use the same copy machine at the same time, like it was just. 

It's ridiculous. 

It was wild for a city this big. 

We had a thing too. 

With this, yeah. 

We couldn't have. Like, we couldn't even have trials for a hot minute because we didn't have enough public defenders, so it was unconstitutional. 

Yeah, because the because finally the attorneys in the city just said this is unacceptable. Like this is not there was one attorney who got drafted to be a public defender and he was like, I do not have the time. To provide this person with their constitutionally. I cannot. I mean, he was honest about it, he said. I cannot do this like this cannot be. And so he refused to do it. And I think a bunch of other attorneys did as well. And then. So that's after Katrina. It got changed. We do have now have a dedicated public defenders office and some wonderful wonderful attorneys who work there, but it is not. It's not a cushion. And like I don't know why when I went in for my interview for my my to see if I was going to be working there for my field placement. I I've watched too many law shows and I I was in the middle of watching The Good Wife specifically, which was like, you know, it was about a cushy law firm and in Chicago. And I remember walking into the offices and being like, oh. This is not the vibe I was anticipating because it's, you know, they all had. They were all sharing offices, everyone was like, crammed in there. I didn't have a real desk. It was just a it was a card table, which not a big deal. But then, like you contrast it with the DA's office and it's wild and so. Yeah. Technically, the way that the court is set up, the procedures, it should be beneficial to the defendant. But in reality, the way all of the resources get distributed, it's never and, you know, especially if the the defendants are in jail. It's so hard, it's, you know, having both worked in the jail. 

I have to give. Credit though, to the New Orleans Judith. System, you know, keeping. I'm saying keeping up my end of the bargain of like, I'm not gonna look at this trial. I'm not gonna, you know, as a juror, I'm not. I'm sequestering myself in my house. I'm not gonna look at social media. Stuff like that. I had no idea they were already convicted. They didn't have. I didn't know. I mean, I knew the best I can say is they're at, they're they're going home. I'm sorry to use that word. That's like a sacred word in prison. But like, they're going to OJ, I knew they're going to JC at night. They ain't making bail. Yeah, they're not on bail for this. But I had no idea they were already convicted. So I was like, wow, OK, like good job, because that's how you're supposed to run, you know, they were in street clothes every day. I assumed there was, like, a skirt around the table. I assumed they were maybe wearing a shock. You know, they may. They might have had their their leg shackled. I never saw him move around. They never took the stand. Because it was. A skirt around. I assume that, but just like. On the looks, I had no idea this. They had been convicted of this already. I just thought this was just, you know, a crime from 2018. That was just getting prosecuted, yeah. 

Yeah, which is part of the course here. Yeah, I don't know the whole thing just is upsetting on so many levels. And that's why it's I get so frustrated when when people use the criminal justice system as like the arbiter. Whether you know and and I know we didn't really want to dwell into this just because you know it's it's a really sad story, but the, you know, unfortunate death of Tiree recently and and people are saying, oh, what a good, good thing it is that the the police are being prosecuted. And it's like, yes on one level. As it does show that the state is taking it. Seriously, but ultimately. You know the criminal justice system is not set up for justice. And and you know it's not. It it's not if if those police are are these officers are convicted, it's not, that's not going to be some like major win for you know the the Black Lives Matter movement or for really. Ending racism not to. 

No, not at all. 

And yeah, I guess. 

But I think it can be like going back to our like original like, I don't know a theme, but my original thing of like we live in the best time. 

It's just, it's just frustrating. 

In human history. After this trial, like as traumatic as it was like, I do have hope that like. The both the prosecution and the DA picked, I mean both the the, the prosecute the state and the the defense got together through the sea of like terrible people. They got 12 people. Who were decent human beings and could come to like a fair, you know it really. 

Yeah, that is nice. 

It really made me helpful, so I I really think our judicial system can work. I just think we just. Is what you always talk about like it's the multi generational lift we need to go back. I feel like I'm one of the last generations that got decent education like social studies or social studies like I brought him up about the. Exo, EXO, type of thing. 

Yeah, we're both. We both. 

My dad. 

Were out of school before. Or at least mostly out of school before. Child left behind. 

Yeah, my dad sat me down as a kid for just cause. He thought it was a good movie and I and made me watch 12 angry men and I thought it. 

We've watched that in school too. 

I thought it was great, like as a kid, as a great movie and the thing. That I remembered. Going back, which gave me solace, with that movie being on this being on this trial. You never find out if the kid in that movie actually stabbed somebody and killed him, because that's not the point. That doesn't matter. What matters is the case was bad. So like and and they were able to come to that, you know, at the end of the day. And that's why I felt we were going to. So we're up against it. So we're going to get out of here. That was very therapeutic. Thank you, New Orleans for being my talk therapy today. And again, you're listen to one. 02.3 WHI. VF in new. Orleans good morning, Conrad. We are signing off. 

P4 like complete and utter disaster if you ask me. I mean, like, if you're looking at if. You're essentially saying.