Seth Gruber - The Lefts Love of Abortion, the Churches Silence and the Political Fightback for Life

Seth Gruber is such a powerful winsome pro life speaker and its such a pleasure to have him join Hearts of Oak today.
He has been touring the US over the last 3 months speaking to educational institutions, local activists and churches.
With the great news of the Supreme Court reversing Roe vs Wade we discuss with Seth how this is affecting the debate in America, why the left so passionate about killing babies and why are churches silent on this great evil.
It seems that our media and sections of the population love death more than churches love life.
Seth tells us how he is going church by church and pulpit by pulpit to strengthen the church and give its voice back for life, compassion and justice for future generations

Seth Gruber’s clear, concise, and persuading approach has impacted thousands across the United States, providing the tools for an audience to change the mindset of the pro-abortion population. In his later years in college, he challenged the institutions and others for their refusal to take a formal position on abortion, which accelerated the appreciation and understanding of Seth’s work among pro-life advocates, pregnancy facilities, churches, and the political domains across the United States. Seth quickly discovered the ignorant and widely indolent culture surrounding him both in and out of the church, and in the universities, which he responded with coordinated educational campaigns and booth displays, engaging with thousands of students on the topic of abortion. It also became obvious to Seth, the church needs to be awaken on abortion.
Seth’s impact is real, changing the hearts and minds of so many on their position on abortion. Joining the Life Training Institute as a pro-life speaker, Seth is now a nationally renowned voice for life, the founder and president of The White Rose Resistance, which has its origins during Nazi holocaust to end the racism infiltrating the world. Pro-Life Ministries is another recent project that Seth is facilitating at churches across the 50 States and abroad. Giving countless speeches to over half a million people so far, and reaching millions through media, Seth Gruber has launched a powerful movement that is moving forward, impacting today’s generation and preparing a future generation on all platforms across the United States.

Connect with Seth and The White Rose Resistance...
WEBSITES: http://sethgruber.com/
                  https://thewhiterose.life/
TWITTER: https://twitter.com/sgruber91
GETTR: https://gettr.com/user/sethgruber
TRUTH: https://truthsocial.com/@sethgruber
PODCAST: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/unaborted/id1471076523

Interview recorded 17.5.23

*Special thanks to Bosch Fawstin for recording our intro/outro on this podcast.

Check out his art https://theboschfawstinstore.blogspot.com/ and follow him on GETTR https://gettr.com/user/BoschFawstin and Twitter https://twitter.com/TheBoschFawstin?s=20 

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Transcript

(Hearts of Oak)

And hello, Hearts of Oak. Welcome to another interview coming up in a moment with Seth Gruber. Seth Gruber is the CEO and founder of the White Rose Resistance, host of Unaborted.
And a Turning Point USA ambassador. And I've watched many of his debates, many of his podcasts.
I bumped into him at a CNP conference in Miami in February. And he has such a winsome position on this. We've had other speakers and Seth brings something different. So we start with him presenting what the pro-life position is, why we need to remind ourselves the importance of standing up for those with no voice, those with few rights in society, and then we look at why the left are so passionate about abortion, why they're desperate, desperate to fund as much, as many abortions as they can. Where does that come from? So we talk about that craziness, I guess, in the left.
A passion for death more than we have a passion for life. And then we go into the institutions. He's just been on a tour. Numerous tours, all sold out. He is based in California, but moving all across the country. Got another set of dates coming up in autumn, in the fall. You can check out that on on his website, sethgruber.com, and be a part of that if you are in the area.
And he talks about engaging with the political sphere, engaging with local activism, engaging with the church, and why the church is so sound on this issue.
Whether they should be the most vocal about standing up for the rights of those who have no voice. You'll love listening to Seth presenting this in such a winsome way.

And hello Hearts of Oak. Today it is an honour to talk to the CEO and founder of the White Rose Resistance, host of Unaborted, a Turning Point USA Ambassador and that is Seth Gruber. Seth, thank you for your time today.

(Seth Gruber)

Yeah Peter, good to be on with you man, thanks for your program and being willing to talk about the issues that so many wont.

Always, as I said to you before we went on there. It's my red line as a Christian. How can you talk about life and not actually defend life? But we'll get into all that. All the links are sethgruber.com, thewhiterose.life and all the other links are in the description @sgruber91 on Twitter. Everything else is there. But just the white rose, that seeks to educate the public about the humanity of the unborn baby, to expose a grotesque immorality of the pro-choice position and inspire the church to accomplish her spiritual duty of ending the greatest injustice of our time. But if I could just, for the viewers and listeners, we have had pro-life speakers on before, including my good friend Scott Klusendorf, and we've had Jannique Stewart on a number of times. While being pro-life is not one of our key aims and organization. I think it's essential that our audience regularly hears a reasoned defence of the importance of life and for those watching who are Christians, they command all Christians, Proverbs 31.8 and many other places, but says speak out on behalf of the voiceless and for the right of all who are vulnerable and who is more voiceless than than the unborn. But that's my prelude. Seth, before we move into the issue and for our UK audience, probably 65% UK, 30% US, but who maybe do not know you, could I ask you to introduce yourself before we move on to the sanctity of life.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Thank you, Peter. Yeah, I've been a pro-life activist since I was a foetus.
So I've been in these waters, I guess, quite literally for a long time. My mother was the executive director of a pregnancy resource centre while pregnant with me in Los Angeles County.
So she took over a centre in her late 20s in Azusa, California, which is right where APU is, Azusa Pacific University. And then she married my father and continued directing that centre until she gave birth to me, so she was waddling around the centre as the executive director, and only stepped down once I was born. We have the pamphlet announcing my mother stepping down from directing the Pro-Life Pregnancy Centre to welcome me and to be a stay-at-home mom.
Then I did the Walk for Life every year and supported our local pregnancy centre. I was one of the top childhood fundraisers, although I was more incentivized by the free bicycles and Disneyland tickets, but at seven, eight, nine years old.
Obviously I was swimming in those waters already and I had an understanding of something's going, something's wrong here, something's evil here.
It wasn't until my senior year of high school, now I was home-schooled through eighth grade and then I went to public high school, and this is Whittier High School in Los Angeles County, it's actually Richard Nixon's alma mater, and they told me I couldn't pick the topic of abortion for my senior project.
And so I, it's sort of, now I'm only embellishing a little bit here, Peter, okay?
I basically said, here's a copy of the constitution. You're making me read a government class.
I recommend you read it or you're gonna have a lawsuit on your hands.
And so I actually did, I did threaten a lawsuit to Whittier High School at 18 years old, public high school.
And, you know, they weren't ready for a classically educated home schooler.
And so they backed off real quick.
I did my senior project on the issue of abortion and I did my volunteer hours that everyone had to do to graduate.
I don't know if they do this anymore, by the way. It used to be a little more difficult to graduate.
You actually had to like work hard, but like you had to do a like 10 page research paper.
You had to give a speech at the end of the year and you had to do field work hours that aligned with your topic selection.
And so I did those at the Centre for Bioethical Reform, CBR, led by Greg and Lois Cunningham, my godparents, because my mother was on the board of directors for CBR when it was founded in 1990, in 1991.
So, the first thing they had me do as a senior in high school was to scan 300 images of first trimester mutilated aborted babies on their high-end scanner and categorize the photos in their database for their educational projects.
So, for two days straight, about six hour, two six hour shifts, I'm scanning and looking at choice.
I'm scanning and looking at reproductive health care and women's rights, allegedly.
And that was probably one of the biggest turning points in my life was actually being forced to look at the eyeballs, noses, faces, ears, fingers, hands, arms of slaughtered little children, all at the seven, eight, nine, and ten week stage.
I mean, this is what I was told was pregnancy tissue by the culture.
And I had never seen those photos before, even as a pro-life student with a mother who had been the director of a pregnancy centre, I had never seen those photos before.
And so that we're talking about, of course, when 90% of abortions are performed, the first trimester, and when there's the greatest public support for abortion, the first trimester.
And so then I went up to a Christian college in Santa Barbara, started a pro-life club there, learned that I was not so much amongst friends as I thought, I thought, Christian college, right, Peter, like everyone's pro-life, right?
I was home-schooled, right? I mean, come on, every Christian's pro-life.
How naïve I was. I did not realize that when I enrolled there as a freshman. I learned that there are pro-abortion professors on the payroll, actually, at Westmont College in Santa Barbara, California. And some people, they really don't like when I go after my alma mater, and I'm not very popular there. I don't really care. Here are their names.
Omidy Oceng, he no longer teaches there, though I took public speaking from him. He's pro-abortion.
He once said in an email, he said that the students at Westmont College were best served when our chapel speakers invited us to tarry in the liminal spaces of complexity on the abortion issue.
And then there's a Deborah Dunn in the Communication Studies Department who I had an email debate with, who had advertised the Planned Parenthood, no, a internship with the local Planned Parenthood, funded and sponsored representative named Lois Capps.
She's only like pro-abortion through point of birth, Peter, like in Santa Barbara, local politician, right?
And Planned Parenthood lackey. And my Christian college is advertising internship opportunities with the pro-homosexuality, pro-LGBTQ ally, pro-abortion through point of birth Democrat politician in Santa Barbara and the Christian college in that city whose motto is Christ preeminent in all things is telling their students, Hey, check out this cool internship.
With who? The spirit of the age? You know, it reminds me of something Fulton Sheen once said, Peter, if you wed yourself to the spirit of the age, you'll find yourself a widow in the next.
But you know, you're not allowed to talk about those kind of things at Westmont College.
And so let's see who else was there. There was a married doctor, a Spanish professor, who's pro abortion as well. And then a married couple, Chris and Sherry Heckley, who teach in different departments and they're both pro abortion. So that's like five or six professors on the payroll of a Christian college whose motto is Christ preeminent in all things, who defend abortion through point of birth. And so I started finding the steel in my spine, actually, Peter, at a Christian college, not at a state college, which, you know, might surprise some people. It shouldn't today, by the way. It should not surprise you. Most Christian colleges are just kind of what Bonhoeffer meant when he said cheap grace.
And so I did my summer job with the CBR. So that was my summer job.
When I would come home from college, I was a paid intern for them.
And I helped organize and run probably over 10 or 11 genocide awareness projects on university campuses in Southern California with the big aborted baby photos that compare abortion to historically recognized forms of genocide.
So that's my background, Peter. And then when I graduated at Westmont, I joined Life Training Institute under the tutelage of Scott Klusendorf and began speaking in youth groups and Protestant Catholic high schools and the occasional church that had the balls to actually speak out on life and let me have the pulpit.
And then at the end of 2020, everything changed. I had had all my speaking cancelled for several months, obviously.
And then I met Jack Hibbs and Rob McCoy.
Rob McCoy became my pastor. We moved our family from South Orange County to Godspeed Calvary Chapel. I started the pro-life ministry there. We built that ministry there It's now saving babies on a monthly basis, it's got sidewalk counsellors mentor families for those who choose life celebrating them throwing their baby showers post-abortion healing and orphan foster care.
I ran my show out of Rob studio, Rob, of course with the mayor of Thousand Oaks the the city just north of LA County while the senior pastor of Godspeak Calvary Chapel.
And when he told Governor Gavin Newsom-Leany in California that he wouldn't be shutting his church and he opened it, he had lawsuits. And they actually came to possibly arrest him and the elders.
And then a thousand Christians from around California showed up in the parking lot of Godspeak Calvary Chapel that Sunday and said, start with us.
So those are my people, that's my church. And that's how God started kind of moving through my ministry to mobilize and awaken pastors and the church to get engaged.
And so we launched the White Rose Resistance right after the overturning of Roe versus Wade to rebuild Christian resistance before it's too late to get the church engaged and stop waiting for pro-life ministries and pregnancy centres to do the job that god's called the church to do actually, Which is to be the hands and feet of Jesus to hold back those staggering toward the slaughter to speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves pure and undefiled religion love the orphan and the widow the unborn child is definitely an orphan in god's view, because his parents want him dead and so that's we're building kind of the turning point USA of the pro-life movement, is the goal peter?
And to actually get the church mobilized at the local level to end abortion.
And so we go on to college campuses, we go into churches, we've had two of those tours this season, we're doing another one in the fall, and we're hiring and we're growing. So if any people in the US are interested, head over to thewhiterose.life, head on over to Red Balloon, and, apply if you think that God's called you to end abortion.

Well, let's go on the issue. I mean, I've heard Greg Cunningham twice in the UK, a fascinating, an absolute hero. And I've loved watching Jack Hibbs during the lockdown with someone who's fearless and will stand up to anyone, love it. But on the issue, I mean, at hand, I mean, why should we care what people want to do with their own private lives? I mean, surely it's up to women or now that men can have babies, it's up to men as well to do they want to do with their own body.

Yeah, I mean, the culture of death has crept in to the church a lot, Peter, and so we say silly things like that, and I hear Christians say things like that, who sometimes even say that they're pro-life, right?
The typical line, like, I wouldn't get an abortion. But I mean, I personally am pro-life.
It's like saying, I'm personally against slavery, but if my neighbour Bob wants to purchase black men, I mean, who am I to say, you know?
So, I mean, the culture of death, it creeps in, and we begin to parrot the culture.
We begin to sound more like the culture of death than we sound like the blood-bought Christ, the blood-bought bride of Christ.
And that's a problem. It's a real critique, I think, on the church, that we don't actually take the liturgy of our own faith seriously, that we don't actually catechize our children.
And so they do get catechized, that they get catechized by the culture, which has its own kooky religious premises as well, doesn't it?
And so, I mean, that's kind of how I always start because it's like the fact that that's even an acceptable statement for some Christians to say is I think a real judgment on the church, you know?
Why should we care what they do with their body? I mean, it's like, okay, do we have to do this? Okay, all right.
I was a pre-born male. I was a male in the womb.
God was knitting me together in the womb. And if you just want to go this purely scientific route, right, if you're talking to an atheist, I was developing myself from within.
We know from the science of embryology that the pre-born child develops them self, right?
The mother's not like asking baby to grow. It's like the child's directing their own internal growth from within.
That's what it means to be a pre-born human being. And so my male genitalia was developing itself in the womb, Peter, which means that
I was not my mother's body. I know that's super sciencey for pro-choicers. I know that's super hard to follow. But pregnant women actually don't have male genitalia. And so if a pre-born male, unborn child, can be a male and have their male genitalia being developed, then they are not their mother's body. There's lots of ways to poke fun at this, obviously.
Here's another one. Let's say a pregnant woman had intractable nausea, Peter, and could not stop throwing up due to her pregnancy.
She's tried diplegias. She's tried other forms. Nothing stopped the nausea.
She's almost on bed rest now. She can't keep any food down.
So she goes to her OB, Peter, and she says, you know, I really need some of that thalidomide.
Nothing is stopping this nausea.
And he goes, well, I'm not going to give you thalidomide, ma'am.
It's illegal. Plus, don't you know your baby is likely to be born without any arms?
And she ignores him. She finds some illegally anyways and takes it.
Four months later, her baby's born without any arms. Did she do anything wrong?
Every time I've asked that to a pro-choice or on a college campus, their eyes glaze over, Peter. And most of them say, hell yeah, because I trick them.
I get them because, you know, reality always reasserts itself in the end, doesn't it?
And when it does, it'll slap you in the face hard.
And so I always trick them because I'm just, they're acknowledging a portion of reality, but they're trying to suppress the rest of that in order to maintain their pro-choice delusions.
And so every college student I've asked that to, Peter has said, hell yeah, that's effing wrong. That's effed up, dude.
What the, you know, like they think it's like really effed up and really wrong.
And then I say to them, who the hell are you to judge her?
It's her body, her choice. The foetus has no right to her body anyways.
If she can murder the baby, she can certainly intentionally harm the child in a way that doesn't kill the child.
Yeah, are you telling me, ProChoicer, that it's worse to harm someone than to kill someone?
Because that's what they're saying, right?
When they say she has a right to abortion, but it's wrong and effed up for her to take thalidomide to get rid of her nausea, and her baby will be alive, likely.
Her baby will live. those being born without any arms. And they go, that's screwed up, man, because she knew that she was doing something that could harm her child.
Do you hear yourself right now? So there's always lots of ways to kind of poke fun at it.
But what does that do? It reveals that deep down, they know that the body in her body is not her body.
So why do we care about what other people do with their body, Peter?
Because sometimes you can use your body in a way that intentionally harms or kills other human beings. That's why. And when you do that, that's wrong and that should be illegal and we should have laws against that, that's why.

When I talk to friends on the left, I do have some of them still, and they seem to be, passionate about abortion. In fact, I have some friends who I didn't think they had any interest apart from just their social media themselves, what they watch on TV, and you discuss current affairs, no interest, and then you mention the issue of, well, maybe it's not right to take the life of another human being through abortion and they literally manifest and suddenly they become so passionate about killing babies. This seems to be what they're about. How have we kind of, how have we come to that that there is so much passion for death in part of our society?

How have we come to that? I mean like how have we not come to that? I mean that's the history of of humanism, that's the history of most civilizations throughout all of human history.
Most civilizations practiced human sacrifice. So like most civilizations practice slavery.
In fact, every civilization did. So I'm like, I think the church has to kind of, I think conservatives have grown so comfortable, and cushy with our freedoms in the West and we're watching those freedoms, you know, obviously, deteriorate or disappear entirely really quickly, and especially in America, right?
Because we tend to linger a little behind the UK and Canada, you know, culturally and politically, Peter. We're so comfortable and we're like, what is going on?
You know, it's like, how did this happen? It's like, what are you talking about?
Like, this is the norm, y'all.
This is the norm. You've grown so fat on liberty that you've mistaken it for libertinism and licentiousness.
This killing human beings, innocent human beings, and sacrificing them to kooky deities with the belief that your life will be improved is actually quite normal.
Yeah, it was Christianity, y'all, that kind of brought about this concept of the sanctity of life, the rights of the individual.
That human being is have dignity because they're created in the image of God.
And so this concept of the Imago Dei kind of really, in a very real way, provided the basis for this idea called human equality and human rights that we've taken for granted.
So most people who hate Christianity, Peter, wouldn't want to live in an America without it or in a country without it.
You know, it's the same people who say that God doesn't exist, but they also really hate him.
You know, it's like wait a second. Um, I'm not sure I think I think you got the math wrong there. Um, you know, I think they like the American humanist association what's exist, what existed for the eradication of God, but they were all atheists, it's like so you want to eradicate someone that doesn't exist, it's like that's a little weird but it's like eternity's written on the heart of man, right?
Like we all know there's a god just like we all know we're killing babies We all know this. Um, I just talked to a crazy kooky pro-choicer at San Diego state university.
And he was talking about the thing in the womb, the thing in the uterus, and he called it a baby.
And then he corrected himself and he said foetus. And I said, ah, shoot.
Yeah, you said baby, didn't you? Ah, yeah, Freudian slip, right?
And I told him, I was like, it's okay. Pro-choicers do that a lot because reality always reasserts itself.
And you know it's a baby, but you've got to try to use dehumanizing terms to justify child sacrifice so you can have orgasms without responsibility, huh?
That's why you actually, you slipped up there, huh, brother?
And he laughed. He was like, yeah. So I've had that interaction more than once, actually, being around college campuses where they accidentally called a baby.
That just happened last year at UC Berkeley, too. The dude was talking about the fetus, and he called it a baby.
And then he changed it. He said, foetus.
I was like, ah. And so we all know, actually, what we're doing.
That's the bottom line and
I think that the church in particular has to start treating this issue and really the broader secular moral revolution as a secular regressive revolution.
There's nothing progressive or new or modern or advanced about their ideas, right?
The left's ideas on human nature, gender, abortion, marriage, sexuality, are not more modern but far more ancient than those of the revolutionary founding fathers that built America and of the Christians that largely built the West.
And so as C.S. Lewis once said, we all want progress, right?
But if you're on the wrong road, progress means doing an about turn and walking back to the right road. In that case, the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive.
And when you notice you're on the wrong road, it's only the pessimist who continues to walk off the cliff. The progressive turns around and finds a way to right himself and get onto the wrong road, onto the right road rather. And so child sacrifice and human sacrifice goes back to the first generations immediately following Adam and Eve.
Child sacrifice is what incites some of God's most colourful language in scripture.
Let's put it this way, God gets pissed.
He gets real pissed when the Israelites are killing babies to Moloch and Baal and Asherah and all this craziness, right?
Well, we have the same gods of our culture today, the God of sex and the God of human sacrifice and child sacrifice, but they've been, they're described in such clinical language, right?
They're described as sort of anti-religious, like there are no Gods, but it's still the same spirit that demands the same things as those ancient deities did. They were really just demons.
So we're still sacrificing children to demons. We just call it health care.
We call it women's rights. And we call it feminism. And so this cult of feminism and progressivism is just another iteration in a long humanistic experiment that has sought to place man as God.
And the problem, right, with replacing God from the culture as we're starting to experience, Peter, is that other kooky religions take its place.
So there's actually no such thing as moral neutrality. Replace Christianity, and then you get humanism, you get progressivism, you get evolutionism, you get neo-Malthusianism.
And they're very religious worldviews too. They're just way more dangerous and way more kooky.
And so the church has to start realizing that there will be a standard and there will be a dominant religion.
The question is whose? Whose morality and whose religion? Well, why not the one that built the West and provided the freedoms that everyone takes for granted today and will no longer get comfortable with being uncomfortable in order to defend on behalf of the next generation?
And if we can't get the right to life right, we're not going to get any other rights right.
That's why the founders in America said we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal they're endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights that among these are the right to life liberty in the pursuit of happiness they put life first because the right to liberty and pursuit of happiness don't mean much, in fact, they mean nothing at all if you can be murdered.

Tell us about your, you've obviously just finished what 15 or 20 dates.
Finished last month and you said you're going another one in the fall. Tell us about that and where your focus has been. Is it church groups? Is it political groups? Is it local activist groups?
I mean where are you spending your time on those dates, on those events?

Yeah, I used to speak everywhere, but now with three kids, and with my 2023 calendar almost full already, praise God, I mean, I never thought that would happen.
We only have two or three slots maybe left in the entire year.
And so we've had to really focus on high impact events and getting other people mobilized and engaged because I'm not building a Seth Gruber organization, I'm building, I'm rebuilding Christian resistance, which entails stewardship. It entails personal responsibility, right? It entails sacrifice, actually. And, you know, another time, Peter, I can tell the whole story of the White Rose resistance. But, you know, these were 20-somethings Christians who were murdered and had their heads chopped off on February 22, 1943, in Nazi Germany, because they distributed anti-Nazi leaflets all around the country to try to prick the conscience of the culture and get the church wakened up and engaged. And they were murdered for their efforts. So the reason we think that them brave and courageous is because they sacrificed far more with far less freedom.
To stand against their Holocaust than we have ever done to stand against ours. That's why we think these figures are so heroic, Peter. They had far less freedom than we in the West do right now. And they sacrificed far more than most of us have ever sacrificed.
That's a critique against the church in the West. And so we exist to rebuild that Christian resistance and develop the local leadership to get people engaged at the local level.
And so that means finding brave men and women. That means finding courageous men and women who actually want to lay down their lives and their sacred honours to tear down the high places once again and to give God a reason to show America mercy.
And so we prioritize churches for that event. And I've been blessed and frankly, blown away, Peter.
I don't know how this has happened apart from the hand of God, to have been in more pulpits on Sunday mornings on the issue of life since the end of 2020 than any pro-life speaker in the world that I know of.
I don't know of anyone who's been in as many pulpits in a two and a half year period, individual separate churches around the country. And we've started dozens of pro-life ministries at those churches, by the way. I don't just leave and say, hey, thanks for letting me speak.
Now, you know, later, like we bring in our leadership and ministries that we partner with to develop and train people to get engaged in sidewalk counselling outside of abortion centres, orphan foster care, mentor families for those who choose life actually, and post-abortion healing as well.
And so as we're growing and mobilizing people at the local level, the goal will be getting the church engaged in some of those lanes, including public events that really mock these ideas in the spirit of the age, and raising up new activists that actually take our content to the streets as well.
And so we're building all of that infrastructure now because we're a brand new organization.
So we got to hire and find the right talent.
And God's been blessing our organization immensely. And we're very excited for how God's gonna move this year and in the following year.
And so we do the college campuses to provide that last voice of sanity, In an out of control environment and to capture interaction and dialogues, that most people don't ever see and that's the beauty of social media Even though it's harder to get your content out if you're conservative than it was 10 years ago, But you know my conversations with pro-abortion people are often conversations, no one online has ever seen before, Rarely has anyone ever encountered someone and I'm not trying to sound like an ass here peter or speak pridefully but this is my this is the hill I will die on and so very rarely has anyone ever spoken to someone like me. Um, who's who's ready to jump into the cage, um and knows exactly what I believe and how to articulate it And so pro-choice, we see this happening conversations, you know Pro-choicers literally walk away from me sometime at the end of the conversation saying thank you. I had never thought of that before, Uh, and I'm like, you know, like whoa You know, like so there are people who will still be humble enough to admit that they don't know everything, And they did not know what to say to me and we want to capture those interactions to change minds, change hearts, and save lives and get people engaged in our movement.
And then we're working on lots of digital media activism resources this year that frankly, you've never seen in the pro-life movement before that you'll see coming out this year and then the the church tours where we spend most of our time so we did nine churches in the fall and we're finishing I think 16 churches between January and May, This month and so we go to Idaho on Sunday.
Today's May 17th So we go to Idaho on Sunday, and then we go to Vermont the Sunday after.
And then I'm done for the spring, and we take all of June off and go on family vacation.
But, so that'll be 16, 20, 25 or 26 churches between August of 2022 and May of 2023.
And it's about time, huh? That the church get woken up and actually adopting personal responsibility.
So I'll leave you with this line from Bonhoeffer on this question.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer once said, if I sit next to a madman as he drives a car into a group of innocent bystanders, I can't as a Christian simply wait for the catastrophe to happen, then comfort the wounded and bury the dead.
I must try to wrestle the steering wheel out of the hands of the driver.
Well, the drunk driver in the West is the secular progressive, regressive moral revolution that's driving that bus or truck over the bodies of innocent families, children, babies, and the social fabric.
And the church has been sitting in that passenger seat for so long, especially in America, Peter, where we the people are the sovereign.
And we've been screaming the gospel out the window at people who are about to be ploughed over.
But we won't actually try to wrestle the steering wheel away from the driver to actually save innocent human beings who are about to be destroyed by dangerous ideas, ideologies, or in this case, forceps will tear them limb from limb. We have to start exercising responsibility and stewardship.
That's actually the role of the church, Peter. That's not the role of all the 501c3 organizations that we're grateful for that do good work. But we have way too many non-profits, frankly, in America.
But the reason is, is because most non-profits are doing the work that the church has advocated, that the church used to do. We've got to get back to our early roots. So that's what we're trying to build.

I, one church I remember having many conversations with and had to walk away and They said, Peter, you need to understand we're pro-life.
But we need to be very careful on this issue and then I remember it being another church and they were going to the 10 commandments and the person had spoken do not murder and for five minutes in that said, abortion is murder and the church made a public apology the next Sunday to say we need to be very careful and then another pastor told me, Peter you're probably one of those people who will stand outside the abortion clinics and shout at those poor women going in, And I sat back thinking, our churches are afraid of public opinion and of offending the congregation rather than they are worried about offending God.

That's right, yeah.

I guess it's the same in America, that confusion of actually, fear of your congregation, I guess the tides that come in through your congregation, rather than a fear of God and how God looks at our actions.

Yep. So there's a character in scripture named Phineas, and we don't know much about him except it says that Phineas drove a spear through someone who was committing sexual sin.
And it says he was zealous for the honour of God.
And then it says, so God stayed his judgment. And that's all we know about Phineas, is that he dealt with the sin in the camp.
Took initiative and responsibility. God honoured it and he stayed his judgment because of Phineas' actions. We're not zealous for the honour of God in the West, we're not. We're zealous for the tithes, of our congregants whose political sensibilities we won't offend by preaching the full counsel of God from the pulpit. We're zealous for seal claps from our congregants. We're zealous for a little bit more crumbs from the table of the worldly leaders. And if we will not be zealous for the honour of God, I fear what we might hear on Judgment Day when we were wedding ourselves to the spirit of the age, and woke up and found our self a widow in the next.

Can I ask you about, moving on to the politics side, some of our viewers on this will be Christians, many will not, and they probably look at a political solution for this. So I'm wondering, maybe just to finish off on that political side, where are we the whole Roe versus Wade issue?
It's exciting to see states taking control of that and fighting for that. Let us know what's happening on that?

Well I mean gosh when Roe v. Wade got overturned Peter, what we call the liberal establishment in America started collapsing in on itself like a dying star. I mean like they lost their freaking minds. They were saying things like the Republicans are now coming for interracial marriage. It's like they're like what? Like Clarence Thomas, our most conservative pro-life Supreme Court Justice, who is frankly more conservative than Antonin Scalia actually, he's married to a to a white woman, just like, and he's the main reason why Roe v. Wade got overturned, of course, because he's been the most reliable conservative on the court.
It's like, really, do you think he's coming for his own marriage?
Like, but you see the kind of things they say when you come for their sacrament of abortion.
So, yeah, things have been a little out of control here, really, since this pandemic, but certainly since the overturning of Roe versus Wade.
And so, this is really like, it is a new season in the fight life. And it's a moment for the pro-life movement to begin showing how seriously they take this issue. Unfortunately, we do have a lot of pro-life ministries that will say things like, you know, the woman should have no legal punishment, at any time, in any state, for any reason, if she gets an abortion when it's against the law.
Now, listen, the pro-life movement chose a strategy a long time ago to go after the abortionists and not the woman, Because if they went after the woman and she was also, being convicted of a crime then she could not testify against the abortionist in court, And so they chose the liberal strategy in the drug wars of going after the provider rather than the user if you will. That's actually a liberal strategy And it was a conservatives that wanted to just shut down, you know, the drugs that actually punished drug users It was liberals who said no, let's go after the providers the drug sellers Well, whether it was right or wrong, the pro-life movement chose the strategy of going after the providers, the abortionists, and not convicting the woman so she could testify against the abortionist in court.
But with Roe v. Wade overturned and states being able to ban abortion fully and entirely, if we believe that the pre-born child is a person with equal rights and dignity, then we cannot say, oh, the parents who arranged the death of that child and paid for the death of that child, if it's not the abortion pill, right, because obviously you're doing that yourself.
But if you're going to an abortionist, you're paying a hitman to kill your baby.
What's wrong with a law that says if you kill innocent human beings, there are legal consequences?
I don't see anything wrong with that law. Now, if a mother paid, let's say, a hitman to drown her child in the pond, she might not be charged with first degree murder, but she would be charged as a conspirator, right? As an accomplice to murder.
Why would we not say the same thing with abortion? And so there are a lot of pro-life ministries that are intentionally crafting legislation that put in exceptions for rape, right?
And that put in exceptions to make sure that the woman can't be charged in any way, shape or form.
So I am an incrementalism in the sense that I'd rather have a bill that protects most pre-born children than have a bill that protects no pre-born children, simply because I don't have the votes at the time to get the abortion ban passed. So I'm willing to accept incremental victories because that's how the left has brought us to this moment, incrementally, and they've been very patient.
But yes, I think the overturning of Roe versus Wade is kind of showing now in this new season who takes this issue as a true holocaust, who takes this issue as actually genocide of little babies, and who's willing to live like it, legislate like it, pray like it, and sacrifice like it. And so I guess I'm grateful for that in the sense that, you know, we're seeing who is willing to toe the line and who's willing to attack at the front lines. And unfortunately, I think a lot of organizations and some right-to-life groups in different states don't really want a full ban on abortion at the state level.
But if we're going to be zealous for the honour of God, that is what we have to pursue. I don't think that an incremental bill is apostasy or means giving your soul over to Satan. I think we take the victories where we can get them, but the goal should be abolishing abortion at the federal level of course. Now that's going to take a lot of states to get the kind of coalition you need for a constitutional amendment.
But as we work towards that in America, we need to be, the church needs to be getting engaged politically.
They need to be voting with their Bibles open. Pastors need to be preaching the full counsel of God from the pulpit on these issues so that their people go and vote with their Bibles open at the ballot box to get the kind of governors elected and the kind of state legislatures elected that will ban abortion at the state level.
Set a new precedent in America. It's going to send a very strong message to the Moloch serviles and the Democrat Party and the liberal establishment that you have not begun to see me fight yet.

And just, can I just as we finish, there is a absolute wonderful podcast that people can find your latest one. I think you can't build a culture of life by funding the culture of death.
And that's the economic side by Michael Seifert, Founder and CEO of Public Square.
And I would encourage our viewers and listeners to go delve into that.
That's a whole area that we don't have time for today.
Seth, thank you for coming on. I was so chuffed when I saw your name at the CNP Conference, and I made a beeline for you.
So it's an honor having you on. Thank you so much for your time today.

Yeah, good to meet you, Peter. Stay faithful, stand fast, and don't let the commies get you down.