Miriam Grossman MD - Lost in Trans Nation: The Gender Identity Battle in Your Own Home

Show notes and Transcript...

We think Dr Miriam Grossman has just written the most important book for parents today. 
It is titled "Lost in Trans Nation: A Child Psychiatrist's Guide Out of the Madness" and it even comes with a forward from none other than Dr Jordan B Peterson. 
Dr Miriam joins Hearts of Oak to discuss this timely release which she wrote primarily to help parents navigate the trans narrative, imploring them to reject the advice of gender experts and politicians, to trust their guts, their parental instincts, in the face of an onslaught of ideologically driven misinformation that steers them and their children toward risky decisions which they may end up ruing for the rest of their lives.
She tells us why the medical world and most of our institutions have been captured by this new dogma and how whistle-blowers have lifted the lid on this destructive industry.
Please share Dr Grossman's message widely.   

Miriam Grossman MD is board certified in psychiatry and in the sub-specialty of child and adolescent psychiatry. Before gender ideology was on anyone’s radar, she warned parents about its falsehoods and dangers in her 2009 book about sexuality education, "You’re Teaching My Child WHAT?"
Dr. Grossman’s practice currently focuses on gender-distressed young people and their parents. She believes that every child is born in the right body. Dr Grossman has been vocal about the capture of her profession by ideologues, leading to dangerous and experimental treatments on children and betrayal of parents.
The author of five books, Dr. Grossman's work has been translated into eleven languages. She has testified in Congress and lectured at the British House of Lords and the United Nations.
Dr. Grossman is featured in the Daily Wire’s What Is A Woman?, Fox Nation’s The Miseducation of America, and many other documentaries.  Her expert psychiatric opinion is sought for witness testimony and court reports.

'Lost in Trans Nation: A Child Psychiatrist's Guide Out of the Madness' with foreword by Jordan B Peterson in hardback or e-book from Amazon...https://amzn.eu/d/0IacMXd

Connect with Dr Miriam...
WEBSITE:     https://www.miriamgrossmanmd.com/
TWITTER-X  https://twitter.com/Miriam_Grossman?s=20

Interview recorded 28.7.23

*Special thanks to Bosch Fawstin for recording our intro/outro on this podcast.

Check out his art https://theboschfawstinstore.blogspot.com/ and follow him on GETTR https://gettr.com/user/BoschFawstin and Twitter https://twitter.com/TheBoschFawstin?s=20 

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Transcript

(Hearts of Oak)
Hello, Hearts of Oak, and welcome to another interview coming up in a moment, with Dr. Miriam Grossman.
You will probably have seen her on Matt Walsh's excellent What is a Woman, Daily Wire documentary.
She was interviewed on that and she has written her latest book.
Lost in Trans-Nation, a child psychiatrist guide out of the madness with foreword by none other than Dr. Jordan Peterson.
And she joins us to discuss this book, which is an essential read for parents.
If you're a parent you have to get this book. It will help you navigate the trans chaos which we are now all facing. She joined us to talk about the book, why she wrote it for parents, all the information there in the appendix for parents to really understand this issue and then we look at why everyone is pushing the whole trans narrative including all of those in the medical industry and of course her background in psychiatry and then we look at whistleblowing. Tavistock Clinic obviously whistle-blowers there exposing what was happening and the same thing is now happening in America and how important whistle-blowers are. So much packed in to a short interview for this fantastic book. 

Dr. Miriam Grossman it is wonderful to have you with us today thank you so much for your time. 

(Miriam Grossman MD)

Oh you are so welcome Peter thank you for having me. 

Not all I and as I was saying before I should come across you're teaching my child what which is quite a while ago, but people can find @Miriam_Grossman. They can follow you there on Twitter and MiriamGrossmanmd.com is the website. Everything is in the description. Of course your background is psychiatry and you find yourself on one specific topic, but before we get into the topic of the book which is 'Lost in Trans Nation, a child psychiatrist's guide out of the madness', that we'll bring up in a moment. Could I ask you just to introduce yourself to, we have maybe 75% UK audience, 15% US. I'm sure people will have seen you in that wonderful...

What is a woman? 

I nearly forgot, goodness, I've watched it a billion times, and what they have done at the Daily Wire is fascinating. But can I ask you to introduce yourself before we get into the book itself?

Oh, sure, of course. Well, I'm a child, adolescent and adult psychiatrist. And, years ago, I was working exclusively with young people as a psychiatrist at the University of, California in Los Angeles. And I became alarmed at the number of kids that I was seeing, students that I was seeing who had a sexually transmitted infection, multiple abortions, worries about having HIV. And so I started to look into sex education at that time, and to study what young people are told about sexuality and about staying healthy.
And I was really quite aghast. I discovered that the way that sex education stands at this time, not only in the US, but in the UK as well. In fact, I spoke about this in the House of Lords, 12 years ago. 

I work in the House of Lords, so I may just have started working at that time.

Yeah. So I was terribly alarmed and disturbed, as I think any decent person would be, be to discover what kids were being taught at that time.
And it was basically not about sexual health. It was about sexual freedom.
And so essentially kids are being told at any age, whenever you feel ready for sexual behaviour, only you can decide and so on and so forth. And being introduced to what many people would consider fringe behaviours, but of course now times have changed and what used to be fringe is now just, you know, run-of-the-mill, I guess, you know, vanilla kind of stuff, but it really was quite alarming and it did answer the question for me of why are so many kids suffering at this time from sexually transmitted infections and abortions and, you know, the emotional part of it as well. So while I was doing that research about sex education, I kind of stumbled across gender ideology and what kids were being told about being male or female. I had never seen this stuff before, and this was back in maybe, I don't know, 2006 or 2007. This was a long time ago. And I discovered that students, even younger students, in elementary school, I'm not sure what you would call that in the UK, but that they were being told that there are many, you know, that there's a spectrum of identities in terms of male and female were just like two extreme ends of a spectrum that had many, many points in between.
And in fact, that if we limit ourselves to just male and female, that's an oppressive paradigm.
I'm sorry, an oppressive paradigm. I'm sorry Peter, I've been talking a lot, so my voice is getting weak.
So it was put into the language of a political Marxist kind of language of that it's oppressive, and that it's false, and it's something that has to be brought down.
So it was presented to kids in terms of a civil right, in terms of an entire class of people who were being oppressed by this idea of binary, which was a white male European idea.
And I just said to myself, oh my goodness, what is this?
You know, I'm a doctor, but you don't have to be a doctor to know that there are only two sexes, male and female. We are mammals. Mammals are dimorphic species. That means male and female.
Other species may have another situation or they may be fluid. The clownfish apparently can be kind of a fluid situation there. We are not clownfish. We are mammals. And I was extremely alarmed that kids were being presented with these ideas that had no basis in medicine, no basis in science. And what they were was more like a belief system. An irrational belief system that told these kids, instructed these kids that the way that you feel at the moment is what you are. And that your biology, that's really not too important. So, you know, as doctor with tremendous respect for our biology. Again, I was alarmed at what this was going to, what effect this was going to have, especially on kids who were vulnerable, kids who might have other issues going on and might be destabilized by this idea that maybe, you know, they're in the the wrong body.
And I wrote about that in my book, 'You're Teaching My Child What?', which came out in 2009.
I had a chapter there called Genderland.
And I compared what is being taught to kids to Alice in Wonderland, this bizarre, you fall down this hole and you land in a place that is bizarre and doesn't make sense, right?
That's where Alice ended up in Wonderland.
There were no, all the rules that she was used to didn't make sense and all the characters that she met didn't make sense.
And that's how I felt as I was exploring this gender ideology that kids are being told.
So I wrote in my chapter there, 2009, and by the way, people can read that chapter on my website.
I have it up on merriamgrossmanmd.com.
And so I warned parents and I said, these, these are not the idea.
You don't want your kids, believing these ideas because this will be a disaster for children to think that they were in the wrong body and that they need to medically alter their bodies and maybe take hormones, medications for what essentially is going to be probably an emotional issue that they're having, and it may just be a temporary distress that they feel about their bodies. So we do not want to be giving these kids a medical interference.
Anyway, unfortunately, it's taken this catastrophe that we're in right now to open people's eyes that our kids have been indoctrinated and are being indoctrinated every day with these ideas.
And so my newest book is 'Lost in Trans Nation, a child psychiatrist guide out of the madness'.
And it is exclusively about the transgender issue.
And what I'm doing in this book is educating parents. This is not a book for professionals, although professionals will learn a lot, but it is written for everyday moms and dads to read and understand what this trans ideology is about and how it is not based in anything scientific or medical. It is an irrational belief system. And it has become a, turbo-charged crusade through our culture targeting our young and vulnerable kids.
So the book gives parents what they need to not only to deal with it if they're living through it right now with one of their kids, but perhaps more importantly, to avoid it the future. So if your children are still small, it's a book that you want to have and learn how to reach your child before these gender zealots, I'm going to call them, reach your child because they are waiting to reach your child, they want to reach your child, and they want to instruct your child in this ideology. And part of the ideology parents need to know is that if parents don't agree and they don't, you know, and they're cautious and they, you know, if they if there's a child, let's say a boy, who announces to his parents that, I'm not your son, I'm your daughter, I want you to use this new name and these pronouns. And I want you to take me to a gender affirming therapist. And if parents just want to say, okay, well, one minute, one minute, you know, this is big. This is really big. So let's just, I want to ask questions. I want to do research. I want to find out. I am not going to use your new name at this at this moment. We need to do a lot of research. So the kids are told that a parent like that, who doesn't at once accept the new identity is a bad person.
And that their home may not be a safe home. So you see, this drives a wedge between kids and their loving parents.
I have been, for the past few years, seeing these families in my office, both the children or the teenagers and young adults who are distressed about their sex, as well as their parents.
And this was one of the huge motivating factors that I realized parents need guidance.
They have nowhere to turn.
It's a little better now compared to when I started writing the book about, I don't know, a year ago, a year and a half ago or so.
Now there are a few organizations, but they still might be difficult to locate.
And the mainstream organizations, the doctors, the social workers, the school counsellors, principals, the government organizations, they're all going to go with this narrative that says, the child knows best.
Let the child decide.
Parents take the back seat, the child is driving, the child is driving in the driver's seat.
We don't do this in any other field of medicine.
This is not the practice of medicine.

Can I ask you, let me bring up the website again, and that is the book you were talking about, 'You're teaching my child what?', with that chapter, Physician Exposes the Lies of Sex Education and How They Harm Your Child.
This is the 'Lost in Trans Nation', just out by Skyhorse, who do so many good books I've learned over the years.
But you start off with Jo Money's Dangerous Idea, chapter one.
I will leave that aside because that's where this started.
But then chapter two, Psychiatry's Dangerous Idea.
How has the medical world and the educational world grasped on to this idea which, as you say, the child is the one making the decisions, it goes against everything we know as a society up until this point and suddenly everything gets thrown in the bin and now a child knows what they're doing.
How did everyone kind of become bewitched by it?

Okay, well, I'll mention also, now that you have the book up there, that the foreword is written by Dr. Jordan Peterson, and I'm forever grateful to Dr. Peterson for writing a phenomenal, phenomenal foreword.
So you asked what happened to the medical and educational professions.
I mean, the short answer is that there has been a crusade of believers in this belief system, this ideology, and they have been wildly successful in their march through our institutions.
And I'm a medical doctor, so I'm particularly interested in what happened in my profession.
And I can tell you that the watershed moment really in psychiatry was about 10 years ago, when the American Psychiatric Association, in their newest edition of the DSM, which is the Manual of Psychiatric Disorders, decided to remove a diagnosis of gender identity disorder.
So until 10 years ago, it was considered a psychiatric disorder, for a person to feel so much distress over their sex that it really impacted, you know, their day-to-day function.
And, you know, they insisted that they wanted to live life as the opposite sex and so on.
So that was a, and also someone who had tremendous distress about their bodies, their genitals, their breasts and other characteristics of being male or female.
It had to have been really causing significant distress for quite some time.
Now, these cases of people with gender identity disorder were very, very rare.
When I went to medical school, which was a while ago, but when I went to medical school and I did my training in psychiatry, and then in child psychiatry, I never saw one instance, one case of someone with gender identity disorder.
It was so rare that, you know, we just thought of it as something that's in the textbooks that we're never gonna see even one case in our entire lives.
So, you know, fast forward now, or, you know, five, eight years ago, and there's a veritable, tsunami epidemic of kids.
And I'm sure your audience is aware that, you know, the Tavistock GIDS Clinic reported that the numbers of referrals that they got, went up by 5,000%.
Yeah. 

That's that crazy graph, which just blows every sensible thought out of the water.

Correct.
So the question, of course, when you look at that graph, everyone is going to ask what the heck is going on with the number of referrals.
But just getting back, I wanna answer your question, Peter, about the American Psychiatric Association.
So the decision that they made to remove the diagnosis of gender identity disorder, and replace it with the diagnosis of gender dysphoria was really a very big deal.
Because what they did with that is that they said it's no longer a disorder.
And instead of focusing on the identity part, that a person's identity did not match their, biology, they focused on the fact that a person has distress over it. So that if a person has that incongru...
Well, if you want that mismatch, so to speak, between how they feel and their body, but they don't have significant distress over it.
It's not a, there's no diagnosis.
And that, I write about that and how that decision was made.
And it was based on two things.
Number one, it was based on compassion.
Because the professionals who were in that group, that committee, who had the responsibility of studying this subject and making a decision, they were concerned about the very rare individuals who have the disorder.
And have very difficult lives, and part of the reason that their lives are difficult is because of stigma. And so they wished to remove the stigma, and they felt that, the quality of life of those people would improve if psychiatry did not consider their condition a disorder. Now, there were a lot of people who argued for the entire diagnosis, the whole category just to be removed, completely taken out of the DSM. So why didn't they do that?
Well, they didn't do it because, you see, people who have gender identity disorder or or gender dysphoria, whatever we're going to call it now, need treatment.
They're going to very often go for mental health and medical and surgical treatment.
Now, for that to be reimbursed, you need a code, a diagnosis for the insurance.
I mean, I know that you have a national health service that's a little bit different than what we have over here.
But I'm sure that you still need some sort of a code, right?
I mean, something has to be considered, have a diagnosis in order to be paid for.
So, those were the two things that were behind the decision for the American Psychiatric Association to make that change.
And that was a huge change.
Now, based on that, you know, other organizations, other groups, LGBT groups and human rights groups and all the organizations that are proponents of what's called now gender-affirming care, and transgender rights, and it's a movement.
So they were able at that point to say, okay, not a disorder.
Now I explain in my book that actually many years before psychiatry changed the DSM, this was already happening.
It was already being accepted that it's a part of human diversity to feel this incongruence, between your body and your mind.
So it was psychiatry kind of catching up.
But once psychiatry, so to speak, caught up, then there was sort of like no end to the fact that kids could then be told, this is completely normal.
If a girl is hating their breasts and their periods, and they're not a stereotypical girl, and they, you know, maybe they're a boy and that's just a normal variant.
If you think, you know, you're 12 years old, you don't, you're worried about puberty, you feel more comfortable with the boys, you don't, you're not into makeup and you're not into having crushes on boys and you're not into dresses and all the rest of it, you know what?
You might be a boy.
So, you know, this was all very huge stuff that was going on, but most of the culture and society, didn't pick up on the significance of these developments.
And based on the new DSM, the DSM-5 that came out in 2013 that I'm now talking about, you know, it had huge repercussions within medicine and within culture.
And starting at around that time, or maybe one or two years after that, is when we started to see the numbers just explode.
So you see that those years, you know, 2011 to 2015.
Then there was a little dip. that little dip corresponds to COVID.
And then it's just going sky high. And the reason for that dashed arrow, is because that is including the waiting list at GIDS Tavistock.
There was a very long waiting list, very huge waiting list of kids.
So getting back, you know, I'm providing all this material, for parents because I don't want them to be caught ignorant of all these very important facts. What happened in psychiatry?
Where did these ideas come from?
What's going on in the schools, what's going on in the legal system, what the effect is on parents to have a child who presents like this? How do you talk to your child the first, the very first few conversations? I have a model conversation there between a parent and a child on this subject when the child comes and says, I'm not your daughter, I'm your son. How a parent can handle it. I have a conversation there also between a parent and either a doctor or therapist.
And how to discuss their child with the therapist or doctor who is insisting, that you have to affirm that child. Now, what I want parents to understand, is that there is no medical consensus on this issue. I think parents in the UK are better informed, I hope, than parents in the U.S. because you had the whole, Tavistock and the Keira Bell issue and then the Cass report and...

Well, can I, because I was outside the court a number of times filming Keira and an awful story, and that's taken whistle-blowers, and I talked to a number of the whistle-blowers in the UK.
It's taken those whistle-blowers to expose, and one of the chapters is whistle-blowers, and I guess it is the same in the U.S. 

Well, we've only had one, I mean, I think there's been a second now. We did have, we have one, I have a chapter on the whistle-blower here, Jamie Reid, unbelievably courageous woman who was working at a gender clinic in St. Louis, Missouri, and she went and blew the whistle and what she described going on there just....
I don't know. There's there's just no words for for that, what one doctor who was working in that gender clinic said. Describing what they do there. We are flying the plane while we are building it, So, yeah. The thing is, you know, we because of our medical system it's gonna take a lot of whistle-blowers here in the US. With you, you had Tavistock, and you had that central referral centre for all the kids in the UK.
So it was an easier thing. I don't know how it's going to happen here.
We are, day by day, there's more lawsuits against the doctors, which is good, but still, its not enough. And parents will find in my book, actually, that I have many, many tools. And in addition to the tools that I present and the information, the history, what I did is I conducted a survey of parents who have a trans, or had, have or had a transgender identifying child. And I asked them, how would you advise families that haven't gone through this yet but may go through it in the future? So I got responses from 500 parents from 17 different countries.
And the book is dedicated to those 500 parents and I list their names. I mean, not most of them didn't use their real names for obvious reasons, but I don't know if you have the book there but in the in the beginning of the book the first pages list all those parents that I have devoted the book to and I say to to them that, you know, I spoke to them from their cars and their basements and their bathrooms because speaking to me, consulting with me, it was as if they were doing something criminal. And I say that they're not criminals, they are heroes. And the criminals are the sex educators and the teachers and the therapists and the surgeons that are that are indoctrinating the kids and then performing these procedures on them. Their day will come.

Because when you mentioned Jordan Peterson and I remember reading a op-ed that he wrote a couple months ago, maybe six months ago, could it be longer, in the Daily Telegraph for the UK. He was full on in his anger at surgeons who carry this out and he talked about their butchering children and talked about punishment and I thought kind of that would have opened the floodgates in the media but still our media are very reticent on engaging this issue, but with Jordan riding the forward it requires people of that courage to put this out in the media. 

Well Dr. Peterson, you know, he's a warrior and I'm so grateful. He also had me on his podcast a few months ago. I spoke about the history, John Money. I, I also spoke a lot about the parents.
My heart is really, I mean, of course, we're worried about the kids.
Obviously everyone's worried about the kids, but people don't speak enough about the parents.
And the parents, I recently spoke to a parent who grew up in a war-torn country.
Where there was a genocide.
And in that genocide, she lost her husband, other members of her family, and she lost a limb.
And now she's losing her child to the transgender ideology and that is the worst thing she's ever been through.
Losing a child to the transgender ideology and watching her child embark on hormones, she described to me as breaking her more than the genocide broke her.
So this is a medical scandal of a huge proportion and I just want to protect families.
That's what the book is about. It's about protecting families.
I hope that it's easy for you there in the UK to get it.
I've had some reports that people had a hard time getting it.
But I think you should be able to get it on Amazon.

You can get it on Amazon. I think it's maybe 10-day post waiting.
But you can get it.
I think this is probably one of the most essential books that parents can read.
I mean, for me, who does lots of interviews and programs, I'm vocal on everything, but I realized that a lot of parents are fearful.
And you go through, one of the appendix dealing with schools, dealing with child protection services.
It is all there to help parents with the internet, social media.
Everything is there for parents to take up, to go through, and to go through those appendix.
So it is absolutely essential. The stories are there, the background is there, what parents can do.
Because I think, as you may have mentioned, parents can feel powerless, and they're worried about raising the issue because of child protection, because of school backlash.

Well, they're not powerless. They're not powerless at all. The book empowers them.
And I also want to mention, Peter, that it's never too early for parents to say to their kids, You know.
You're you're a boy. You're a girl. It's wonderful. You've been a boy or a girl since the moment you were created. No one is assigning anything in the delivery room.
It's not the doctor. It's not the midwife. That's assigning that, you from the moment. And I'm not saying that it's a it's a sex ed thing. You don't have to get into the birds and the bees I'm talking about just saying how wonderful it is that you're a boy, You've always been a boy. You will always be a boy and there's many different kinds of boys, There's boys who don't like soccer and cars and trains, there's boys that like, fashion and there's boys that like, literature and art and cooking, and there's all kinds of boys, and there's all kinds of girls.
So you want to make sure that your child knows that. And so when they first hear this idea of sex being assigned at birth, I want the kid to just say, what?
No, that's not right.
That's not right. Why are you saying that to me? Instead of sitting there and just being a sponge. Kids are sponges.
You have to reach your kid first. 

100% set those guidelines and affirm kids, affirm children for who they are and don't leave that openness.
Can I just ask you Dr. Miriam about what you have faced because it's a crazy world when we say that someone who talks about this is brave.
That's the mad situation we have entered into.
But what has it been like for you calling out absolute, well, it has been common sense until five minutes ago, and suddenly everything is now open to interpretation and discussion.
What has been the response to you putting this concise, well, it's not concise, it is a large publication, 500 pages, but everything is there.
What has been the response to it?

Well, the response primarily is the book companies making it and the distributors of the book making it difficult for people to get it.
So we have in the US Barnes and Noble, do you have that? We did have it and then they pulled out, but we are no Barnes and Noble, yes.
Okay, so Barnes and Noble is the biggest book retailer in the world, I believe.
And we have 300 stores here in the US.
And when the book came out about a week and a half ago, it was simply unavailable in the stores and people were writing me and, you know, messaging me that they went into a Barnes and Noble and they were told the book is out of stock.
And then when they would go online to the Barnes and Noble online and try to order it, they were also told the book is out of stock.
So I contacted my publisher, as you say, Skyhorse.
A just fantastic publisher, Tony Lyons. And he told me that they never ordered them.
They just never ordered the book, so they said they were out of stock. Now, there have been complaints, and so about two days ago, they began to make the book available, but only a month from now. So, you know, let's put it this way. They're, you know, they're putting obstacles in front of people who would like to buy my book.
And I will also add that Amazon has had many, probably over a dozen, bogus books on there trying to copy my book.
And so when people, people that are listening, and I hope that you will get it, the best way to get it, you have to make sure that you're getting the right book. There's no soft cover. There's no guidebook. There's no synopsis. There's no workbook. So what you want to do is go to my website and use the link on my website or go onto my Twitter, which is at Miriam underscore Grossman, and there's a link right there. People have written me that they've ordered the wrong book and you know it's it's it's, they're upset, you know, they have to, they're it's not, it's you don't want to order the wrong book for heaven's sake and and be tricked, you know, and spend your money on it.

Well, we have all the links in the description, however people are watching. It is available on hardback on Amazon in the UK at a one-week delivery time or is available on Kindle, which is how I read a lot of US books, because they're easily available. Just to finish off, can I ask you.
Where do you think the pendulum is going in this? It has swung so far one direction, and certainly in the UK, it's begun to be a topic of conversation amongst parents. That hasn't filtered down into our education system or political system as yet, but it will happen. Yeah, tell us about, usually things swing too far one way and then they swing back. 

Yeah, well things have swung very far here in the U.S. where we have our major medical centres, you know, the best medical centres in the country, really, with gender clinics that are putting kids on an assembly line with little or no mental health evaluation, which, of course, is just preposterous because these kids need extensive mental health evaluations and care, and to not give that to them, not provide that, and to go straight to medical, you know, blockers and cross-sex hormones, which, by the way, I mean, you're probably aware, and your audience is probably aware, but in the U.S., people are not aware that there is no good long-term evidence of any benefit from those interventions.
And there is evidence of terrible consequences. So there are places in the U.S. that still have on their websites that the blockers are reversible and that blockers are considered, widely considered, safe. That's just simply not true. We even had, about two weeks ago, there was a letter in the Wall Street Journal, a major news publication here.
There was a letter signed by 21 experts, clinicians, gender clinicians from nine countries, essentially saying to the doctors here in the US, what are you doing?
What are you doing?
Yeah, so things are still pretty bad over here. You know, I want to ask you, since you're on the ground there, they decided to not close, Tavistock was going to close this year and then it was extended another year it's open?

So Tavistock was supposed to close. It was given a one year reprieve. It is still operating.
Then they have found out that there are other clinics being set up with the same staff under the radar. But the actually good news is that puberty blockers, the government have now ruled them as not safe except for scientific purposes. So my understanding is those cannot be handed out as they were, and the government are doing an investigation. I mean, it's 15 years too late, but at least something is happening and those are no longer freely available.
At least the Tavistock Clinic is being looked at with a microscope, but it has been given a one year reprieve and no one seems to know why.

Interesting. That is interesting. Okay.

So yeah, lots of confusion here in the UK, but this year puberty blockers being restricted is a, is a massive win.
So at least we're seeing movement in the right direction. 

You know, Peter, I want to mention that, um, I'm planning to be in London.
Yeah, I'm coming to the, Jordan Peterson, you know, is forming ARC, the Alliance for Responsible Citizenship.
And he invited me to come. I'm very honoured that he invited me to join in on that.
And that's the end of October, beginning of November. So I will be in London.
And I would love to to meet some of the people there, yourself included.

We will talk about that after, we'll pull that together and I'll certainly be around. So I certainly look forward to that. Dr. Miriam, I so appreciate your time today and as I said, as a parent, as someone who commentates on this, this is an absolutely essential book and one that anyone in the UK can get on their Kindle or as hardback and they can just click on the links.
So thank you for putting this publication together and thank you for coming on today and sharing your story.

You're welcome. I'm gonna say one more thing. I just got done narrating the entire book.

Oh, so when is that out? 

I did it. It should be pretty soon, the audio book.
I did the whole thing. I didn't think I would be able to, but I did it and it was a great experience to read my book out loud.

I actually always love, because I listen  to quite a few audio books, and I love it when the author has done it, because you feel as though you get to know them.
You're with them. It's personal.
And I love that. So I look forward to that coming out, and we'll certainly do what we can do to promote it. 

Thank you, Peter.