If reading the gospel or reading the Fathers speak to us about walking the path of humility does not turn our life upside down, does not agitate the mind and the heart; and indeed, at times bring us to the place of atheism or the edge of sanity, then it is hard to imagine that it is Christianity that we are considering. We’ve grown so used to a evaluating what it is to be a human being and to live one’s life, the nature of self-esteem and self image, outside the context of the gospel that there is no longer anything recognizable as Christian. Can we even answer the question, “What does it mean to be a Christian?“ Does the anthropology, psychology and spirituality of the desert Fathers find any place within our hearts or our vision of our life in this world?
We see the Fathers willing to go to the depths of earthly hell in their pursuit of humility in order to be raised up to the heights of heaven. They came to understand that when one reaches for heaven by pride, one falls into the depths of Hell. This was not notional for them but real. Is our faith more than an idea? One of the reasons the fathers seem to so freely take this path of foolishness and absurdity is that they began to taste the freedom and the joy of the kingdom that comes through it. Where else do we find identity and dignity that cannot be taken away from us except with and in Christ?
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Text of chat during the group:
00:12:10 Michael Hinckley: FR. I picked up A Guide to Living in the Truth. Thanks for the suggestion
00:12:34 FrDavid Abernethy: The Michael Casey book?
00:12:39 FrDavid Abernethy: on Humility?
00:13:22 Michael Hinckley: Yes
00:14:27 Adam Paige: Reacted to "FR. I picked up A Gu..." with 👍
00:19:55 Lori Hatala: www.ctosonline.org/patristic/EvCT.html
00:20:27 Lori Hatala: for Evergetinos books.
00:26:53 Adam Paige: Reacted to "for Evergetinos book..." with 👍
00:40:08 Michael Hinckley: there is also an intense marketing that bombards of self help (non Christ focused) to recognize as soft attacks...
00:40:31 Vanessa: Reacted to "there is also an int..." with 👍
00:40:49 Carol Roper: His response to the camel driver comment, his happiness, helps me understand the wisdom of the holy fool, who sometimes almost seems to provoke those comments from others. There’s a wisdom in seeing the disapproval of others as protective of one’s soul. I’m thinking of the movie ostrov
00:41:00 Adam Paige: Reacted to "there is also an int..." with 😖
00:42:04 Carol Roper: The island
00:43:15 Eric Ewanco: I think there is truth in the idea that the phenomenon of "low self-esteem" is really a hidden expression of pride
00:45:43 Michael Hinckley: Many times too self deprecating humor or a clamoring of being such a 'sinner" can also be forms of vanity, no?
00:45:51 Adam Paige: Reacted to "The island" with 🥾
00:46:15 Michael Hinckley: I think Dom Lorenzo Scupoli warned against it.
00:51:26 Carol Roper: Reacted to "The island" with 🥾
01:01:53 Carol Roper: But given your previous comment about the tongues, it’s not foolishness it’s truthfulness…humility
01:02:14 Carol Roper: We’re just blind to the truth
01:05:12 Michael Hinckley: Father do you know the greek or latin used when translated to foolish?
01:05:40 Rebecca Thérèse: Being considered a fool by all would bring someone closer to Christ because that person would not be distracted by the esteem of others. It's not so helpful being considered a fool by all if others think they need to fix you because this is also a distraction!
01:05:46 Eric Ewanco: How do we live this rejection of praise out in, say, a corporate or professional environment where praise plays an important feedback role?
01:06:33 Michael Hinckley: Reacted to "Being considered a f..." with 👍
01:07:24 Adam Paige: Replying to "How do we live this ..."
How do we live this rejection of praise out in, say, a corporate or professional environment where praise plays an important feedback role?
I have the same question, since we're also encouraged to praise others in the professional environment
01:09:52 Sam: Shunning praise in a professional environment especially is hard but comments such as i could've done better help us....+ embracing humiliation or negative feedback... and only relying on + seeking God's mercy is the narrow path we need to walk...praying always ...a good start for us is the Jesus Prayer.
01:10:06 Rebecca Thérèse: Replying to "How do we live this ..."
I think there may be a difference between praise and flattery. It's helpful sometimes to have positive feedback to know how well you're performing. I think it's also possible not to react to praise with pride.
01:11:01 Anthony Rago: Again....apprenticeship. The Modern Era's emphasis on souls who are autonomous and blank slates to explore the world on their own has hurt all kinds of religious and secular vocations.
01:11:36 Vanessa: Reacted to "Again....apprentices..." with 👍
01:12:05 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Shunning praise in a..." with 👍
01:12:16 Adam Paige: Reacted to "I think there may be..." with 👍
01:13:13 Michael Hinckley: I need to drop Happy and Holy New Year to you all!
01:15:17 Adam Paige: Father do you know the greek or latin used when translated to foolish?
Greek text of Evergetinos Volume II https://drive.google.com/file/d/14g2zvr-CSwHV5qmke5PHGGBAYYzWRNa9/view
01:16:23 Louise: Thanks, Fr.!
01:17:04 Sharon Fisher: And to your spirit!
01:17:05 mflory: Thank you, Father!
01:17:13 Andrew Adams: Thank you Father!
01:17:16 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you, Happy New Year everyone🙂
