Coffee Break with Community Member Chris Cerillo | S4E5

Bio:

 

Chris was diagnosed with MS in 2017, and that's when she really decided to live her life how she wanted to. It really drove home – with the spectrum of types and prognoses – that anything can truly happen in life… we never know. So soon after this huge upheaval to her life, she began to look at both what she had to do now (like eat healthier and exercise) and what she wanted to do. Chris reevaluated her life in every way, which was incredibly hard but so worth it. She started with the happiness she had suppressed for a long time. 

 

So many things have happened in the past four and a half years after diagnosis that she became a different person. She is still the same in some ways, of course – a crazy cat person and a Special Olympics volunteer for instance – but she has changed fundamentally. The way she views life, with a joy in the day to day and making sure those she loves know it, is now her core. Chris honestly can say that she is glad to be diagnosed with MS. As crazy as that sounds, it is true, because of all the epiphanies it has granted her.

 

Questions:

 

• Welcome to the program Chris, and thanks so much for joining us on Living Well with MS.
• Our content theme for February is ‘sharing your story’, so in that spirit, can you tell us a bit about yourself and your life in Connecticut?
• Now let’s get some insight into your MS story: when were you diagnosed and how did you deal with the initial news?
• Do you have any tips or perspectives for people who are newly diagnosed?
• When did you discover Overcoming MS? And how has it impacted your life with MS?
• What were the main obstacles you faced in adopting the OMS lifestyle, and how did you deal with them?
• You have some personal experience with dealing with major life decisions and balancing these with their impacts on MS. In your case, your decision to come out about your sexuality. Can you tell us about that and how you balanced what must have been a stressful time with your need to stay calm and healthy?
• What advice would you give people with MS who are facing major life decisions or other stressful circumstances?
• What kinds of positive changes has your courage in making tough decisions summoned?
• How do you define “living life to the fullest”, especially from the perspective of someone with MS?
• Is there any other perspective on life and living it to the fullest that you can share with our audience that they may find helpful in giving them the final nudge of encouragement they need to take the leap on something daunting or scary?
• What else is on your bucket list for a full life?

 

Links:

 

• Reach Chris’s blog on living despite the unknown here
• Check out Chris on Twitter
• Chris recommends finding and joining your local OMS Circle for support
• Chris wants anyone in the USA who is LGBTQ+ and struggling to know that they can text or call The Trevor Project (which is a nonprofit and totally free) by texting START to 678-678 or calling 1-866-488-7386

 

Coming up next:

 

Tune in on March 9 for the season premiere of Ask Jack, featuring the prodigious culinary talents of professional chef, writer, and OMSer Jack McNulty answering food and cooking questions from our community that inform their healthy OMS lifestyle.

 

Don’t miss out:

 

Subscribe to this podcast and never miss an episode. You can catch any episode of Living Well with MS here or on your favorite podcast listening app. For your convenience, a full episode transcript is also available on all platforms within 48 hours of each episode’s premiere. If you like our program, don’t be shy and leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you tune into the show. And feel free to share your comments and suggestions for future guests and episode topics by emailing podcast@overcomingms.org.

 

S4E48 Transcript

Living Life to the Fullest: A First Person POV of Living with MS

 

Geoff Allix (1s):

Welcome to Living Well with MS, the podcast from Overcoming MS, the world's leading multiple sclerosis healthy lifestyle charity, celebrating its 10th year of serving the MS community. I'm your host, Geoff Allix. The goal of our organization and this podcast is to inform, support, and empower people with MS to lead full and happy lives. We're excited you could join us for this new episode. Make sure to check out this episode's show notes for more information and useful links. You can find these on our website at www.overcomingms.org/podcast or in whichever podcast platform you used to tune in to our program. If you enjoy the show, please spread the word about us on your social media channels or leave a review wherever you tune into our podcast.

 

Geoff Allix (47s):

Have questions or ideas to share? Email us at podcast@overcomingms.org, or you can reach out to me directly on Twitter @GeoffAllix. We'd love to hear from you. Finally, don't forget to subscribe to Living Well with MS on your favorite podcast platform so you never miss an episode. Now, let's meet our guest for this episode. Joining us on this episode of the Living Well with the MS podcast is Chris Cerillo. Chris was diagnosed with MS in 2017 and that's when she really decided to live her life how she wanted to. It really drove her home with the spectrum of types and prognoses that anything can truly happen in life. We never know.

 

Geoff Allix (1m 27s):

Soon after this huge upheaval to her life, she began to look at both what she had to do now like eating healthier and exercising, and what she wanted to do. Chris reevaluated her life in every way, which was incredibly hard, but so worth it. She started with the happiness she had suppressed for a long time. So many things have happened in the past four and a half years after diagnosis that she became a different person. She is still the same in some ways, of course, a crazy cat person and a Special Olympics volunteer for instance, but she has changed fundamentally, the way she views life with joy in the day to day and making sure those she loves know it and it's now her core. Chris honestly can say that she is glad to be diagnosed with MS.

 

Geoff Allix (2m 9s):

As crazy as that sounds, it's true because of all the epiphanies it has granted her. Welcome to the program, Chris, and thank you so much for joining us on Living Well with MS.

 

Chris Cerillo (2m 21s):

Thank you for having me.

 

Geoff Allix (2m 23s):

This month, the content theme is sharing your story. With that in mind, could you tell us a bit about yourself and your life in Connecticut?

 

Chris Cerillo (2m 35s):

Yes. Just for reference, Connecticut's a super tiny state in the United States. We're about, where I am, an hour and a half from Manhattan, but it's a great state. I really do like it a lot. I'm actually from upstate New York so that's also about an hour and a half from here.

 

Geoff Allix (2m 53s):

Upstate New York, is that the bit that's not the city of New York?

 

Chris Cerillo (2m 58s):

Right. Exactly, yes.

 

Geoff Allix (2m 59s):

Sorry.

 

Chris Cerillo (3m 0s):

Once you're out of the city, no, it's a huge state. It's complicated. I'm from Hudson Valley. I moved here in 2011 and, except for a stint in Manhattan during the pandemic, unfortunately, came back and I really like it here. It's pretty awesome. I work in fundraising at a nonprofit, and I love my work. A lot of people can't say that. I feel privileged to be able to say that, but, yes, I have a bunch of really awesome friends that are family to me here, which is great because most of my family actually lives down south now. They moved from upstate New York to North Carolina and Florida.

 

Chris Cerillo (3m 43s):

They text me regularly. It's 15 degrees here right now and they're texting and they're like, "It's 50 degrees where I am," but here, despite the cold, it is a pretty awesome city.

 

Geoff Allix (3m 53s):

When you say 15 degrees, you're talking Fahrenheit, aren't you?

 

Chris Cerillo (3m 59s):

Yes, Fahrenheit.

 

Geoff Allix (3m 60s):

That's way below zero. Okay.

 

Chris Cerillo (4m 5s):

Okay, yes. Sorry, 15 degrees Fahrenheit. I'm very American-centric. I have to work my way out of that. I volunteer a lot as much as I can around here with the special Olympics and doing dog rescue transports, really anything that I can do to help out and try to give back as much as possible. It's pretty great here.

 

Geoff Allix (4m 31s):

The Special Olympics, is that like the Paralympics?

 

Chris Cerillo (4m 35s):

Yes. Folks with special needs, autism, Downs Syndrome, things like that.

 

Geoff Allix (4m 43s):

Let's get some insight into the MS side of things, so when you were diagnosed, a bit about the diagnosis, and how you dealt with that.

 

Chris Cerillo (4m 56s):

Yes. I was diagnosed, I had to sit down and think about this actually in 2017, which sounds like so long ago. I guess, technically it was four and a half years. For the summer of 2017, before I was diagnosed, I had a bunch of weird different symptoms that just didn't amount to anything in particular. I had a lot of tests done. They're testing for lupus and this autoimmune disease. I had joint pain and I was just generally not feeling well. I had done it for a couple of years prior to the diagnosis and they just gave up.

 

Chris Cerillo (5m 40s):

They're like, "We don't know what's wrong with you," which I think happens a lot with autoimmune issues. In 2017, I started to feel like burning sensations in my body. I was like, "This is different and weird." In particular, I was washing the dishes one day and it felt like my hands are burning. I'm like, "Oh my God, like, why is this water so hot all of a sudden?" I stepped back and a few minutes later I'm still burning. I didn't realize it was burning from inside and not outside. I was like, "There's something going on here." To be a hundred percent honest, after so many years of knowing something was wrong and then coming to the realization of like, "This could actually be something.

 

Chris Cerillo (6m 25s):

This could be MS." Of course, you go on Google. You're going to Google whatever's happening like burning sensation, nerve issues. A few days after the dishwashing incident, I realized that my right eye wasn't seeing as well. I was like, "That's weird," but I have had glasses since I was nine. My eyes just, in general, don't see very well. That's not a huge problem. All of a sudden, it felt like there was a sunglass lens on my right eye. I also couldn't see. I couldn't see red very well and red was my favorite color, so everything was red around me.

 

Chris Cerillo (7m 6s):

I'm like, "Why is red super dark now? That's odd." I called my eye doctor. It was a weekend, so I left her a message. I think it was Sunday. I was at work Monday morning at 8:00 AM and I get a call. They're panicked and they're like, "You need to come in. You need to come in ASAP, leave work," so I did. I told my boss, and she was like, "Okay, yes. Sounds like an emergency." I go in and there's just a general panic happening, which I didn't realize until afterward that I think they thought that I was having a stroke because it's just suddenly like, "Why is her eye not working?"

 

Chris Cerillo (7m 55s):

We had a bunch of tests done while I was there. She told me at the end of the visit, "Yes, I think you need to see a neurologist." Because I had been Googling, I was like, "Do you think it's optic neuritis?" She's like, "I think so." I made the neurologist appointment for a week later and went in. He's still my neurologist actually. He's great. Shout out to Dr. Bonnie in New Haven. I went in and then a few days later got my MRI. He interpreted it and he told me, "Look, here are six different lesions on your brain.

 

Chris Cerillo (8m 36s):

It's pretty safe to say that this is MS." I think, originally, like I said, I was like, "Great, this is the diagnosis." I feel vindicated, so happy to have this answer. Then I did more thinking and more researching and realized that it's seen as one of the worst illnesses to have by the general public. I saw it compared to cancer. Cancer was the number one worst thing to happen, and MS was number two, which is scary when you're first diagnosed to read that.

 

Geoff Allix (9m 14s):

I didn't come across that and I'm quite glad that I didn't come across that.

 

Chris Cerillo (9m 22s):

You didn't? Yes. Maybe it's an American thing, I don't know.

 

Geoff Allix (9m 23s):

Cancer's going to go one, one way or the other, isn't it? I know people who are completely in the clear now and have been for a long time, but then equally, it could kill you very, very quickly. We're in that middle ground, aren't we? Yes, you can have it forever.

 

Chris Cerillo (9m 42s):

Anything could happen, yes.

 

Geoff Allix (9m 43s):

There's not going to be any like, "We've cleared you of this but equally, we're not going to give you three months to live."

 

Chris Cerillo (9m 49s):

Right. I guess if you're primary progressive, you could be in a much quicker timeframe of deterioration, but I think, in general, yes, I just heard a lot of people calling it the "Wheelchair disease" and "You're going to end up super disabled." I think, honestly, people talk about a wheelchair like it's the worst possible thing when in reality, lots of people live full lives in wheelchairs, with canes, or walking sticks.  I learned all that later. I learned that perspective later on, but initially, yes, I was freaked out once I got over my happiness of a diagnosis.

 

Geoff Allix (10m 32s):

If other people are newly diagnosed, do you have any tips for them in how you deal with it?

 

Chris Cerillo (10m 46s):

Yes. I think you're going to run through a bunch of emotions at first. Maybe not the same way that I did, but it's definitely going to hit you. You have to let it hit you. Don't just hold on to extreme positivity. It's a real disease. It's something you're going to have to live with the rest of your life like you were saying, Geoff. Let that sink in. Feel your feelings, that’s was my therapist would say, but don't panic too much. Make sure that you do some research and look into OMS because honestly, Overcoming MS book has become my bible to live by.

 

Chris Cerillo (11m 34s):

Whenever I'm not feeling well, I'm like, "Let me check in and see what I should be adjusting here," but reading through it when I was first diagnosed was really, really important for me. I like to have some sort of control over my life, and I didn't feel like I had it until I found OMS. I was like, "I can. I can have power over what happens to me."

 

Geoff Allix (11m 58s):

Did you come across OMS straight away or was it a while after your diagnosis?

 

Chris Cerillo (12m 4s):

I was lucky. My partner at the time actually did this research even before I was diagnosed. When I was having burning sensations, he was looking it up and came across OMS, ordered the book, and everything. It was pretty soon after that I was reading it too and looking into it. I did it slowly because I was balancing that with all the millions of pamphlets that your neurologist gives you. I was like, "This medication and that medication." It was just too much information at once. It was great that he purchased that, and he gave me a synopsis of like, "Hey, you can do this to make sure you stay healthy."

 

Chris Cerillo (12m 48s):

Yes, I think my tip is to probably cut down on the panic. If you have people that are super close to you, you can ask them to do some research for you. Most people that are close to you want to help so if you give them a task, they're probably going to take it on. That'd be my main tip.

 

Geoff Allix (13m 10s):

Yes. I think if you try to do everything yourself then, and I think that's a natural thing to want to do everything and say, "Okay, I'm not going to let this affect me at all," but sometimes, you need to rely on people. People are happy to help, usually.

 

Chris Cerillo (13m 34s):

Right, .

 

Geoff Allix (13m 34s):

I think it's not unusual what you said about your partner actually introducing you to Overcoming MS. That was the case with me, and it has been with other guests as well. I think maybe that's because they want to do something. They're doing research because they can do that. They come across various things and then say, "Have you tried Overcoming MS? Have you heard of this?"

 

Chris Cerillo (13m 60s):

Yes, right. They want to help you and they don't know how.

 

Geoff Allix (13m 60s):

Then later on, maybe, like now, my wife knows what is helpful. We've been doing it for years, but first, it's like, "Well, I don't know how I can help you." That was a way she really did help me.

 

Chris Cerillo (14m 23s):

Yes, and then you learn what kind of things can help you and you can communicate that to your loved ones and be like, "Hey, if I'm overdoing it, if we're out for a hike and I start moving slowly," the cold weather really affects me. I know everybody says the hot weather and hot weather unfortunately affects me, too. If I'm out for a long walk with a friend and I'm like, "Body's not moving as well," they can say like, "Let's cut it off. Let's go home and get you feeling better." I think in the initial stages, you have to figure that out.

 

Geoff Allix (14m 58s):

Yes, cold weather is good for me. I've always been into outdoor sports. The last one that I stopped doing was snowboarding. Since having MS, I've done two snowboarding trips. I can do that because I can stay cold, whereas a Mediterranean trip in the summer is much harder for me.

 

Chris Cerillo (15m 25s):

I'm not going to go down south and visit my family in the summer. I'm sorry, I'm not doing that. No July trips to Florida.

 

Geoff Allix (15m 34s):

The problem is my family loves it. I still have done trips and we've been to Thailand, we've been to Costa Rica, and we're planning to go to Sardinia when they finally let us travel again, but I know I won't be doing much. I'm going to be by the beach, and I'll go to the sea and cool down.

 

Chris Cerillo (15m 55s):

Yes, don't overdo it. We learn as we go.

 

Geoff Allix (15m 59s):

Have you found differences since you've been doing Overcoming MS? Has it made a difference?

 

Chris Cerillo (16m 7s):

It definitely has. I was a vegan when I found out about OMS, so I was already kind of there, but I was a junk food vegan. I had to switch to an actual plant-based diet and eat a lot of greens. When I do that, I feel better than when I eat frozen pizzas, chips, and soda. It's crazy how much of a difference it actually makes, but it is true. It's true. If I exercise, I feel better. It's good for the whole system so it's good for your brain, fighting depression, sleeping better.

 

Chris Cerillo (16m 47s):

Go exercise, go eat some good food, hang out with friends when it's safe to do so, but OMS is definitely helpful, yes.

 

Geoff Allix (16m 56s):

There's been a lot of articles because we have a thing, I don't think it's international, called Vegan January, where they try and encourage people to be vegan in January. Is it a thing everywhere?

 

Chris Cerillo (17m 10s):

It is a thing here too, yes.

 

Geoff Allix (17m 11s):

There have been some articles about this saying, "Actually, being vegan isn't necessarily healthy." When you read these articles, it's because there is a lot more veganism in this country now. You see a lot of stuff in supermarkets which is vegan fast food really, like processed vegan foods. It's not so much being vegan. It's the plant-based whole food, isn't it?

 

Chris Cerillo (17m 40s):

There's a difference.

 

Geoff Allix (17m 41s):

That is more effort because you are going to be chopping up vegetables and cooking them.

 

Chris Cerillo (17m 47s):

Yes. It's annoying. To be honest, I don't like cooking. I don't enjoy it, but I do it. You figure out workarounds. I make kale chips all the time. I just put nutritional yeast on kale and just put it in the oven until it becomes kale chips or make a salad, super easy.

 

Geoff Allix (18m 6s):

Actually, there is an element of it being delicious as well because you are cooking freshly made food.

 

Chris Cerillo (18m 14s):

That's true. I think if you just give up meat, is it really a massive benefit? I think the benefit comes from the, personally, whole food side of it that you’re actually eating proper food. Yes. Yes. Yes. I became a vegan originally for animal welfare reasons. I worked in animal shelters for a really long time and interned on farms and stuff. I was like, "This makes sense for me," but being an animal welfare vegan literally means you could eat anything that's vegan.

 

Chris Cerillo (18m 58s):

There's a new vegan pizza every week at my store or down the road. It feels like there are just many new options.

 

Geoff Allix (19m 6s):

In the States. I don't know if I could get it at most places I've been to, trying to order a pizza without cheese on it. Pizza's a real go-to for me because it's just so easy. Actually, in Italy, they do pizza without cheese. There's one . I'm in Seattle at the moment, and there's a place called Mod Pizza, which I don't know if that's Nashville. You basically choose what you want when you are ordering it. You can have the red sauce as I go across it and then you say, "No cheese."

 

Geoff Allix (19m 45s):

They say, "Are you vegan?" I said, "Yes, I'm a vegan." They say, "No, we have vegan cheese." I said, "No, I just don't want any cheese," and they're like, "But it's pizza." "Whatever that is, that's not food." Pizza without cheese is really nice.

 

Chris Cerillo (20m 12s):

It is. I have to say, I've learned to like it over the years.

 

Geoff Allix (20m 22s):

Yes, but I think, in any venue in the US, it's almost like ordering a pizza with no base or something, to say without the cheese. Otherwise, it's not pizza. Did you have any problems adopting OMS? You said you were vegan already, but what were the main obstacles to adopting the lifestyle?

 

Chris Cerillo (20m 47s):

I would say probably trying to be stress-free or as stress-free as possible. Meditation has never worked for me. I've tried so many times. I tried with the Headspace app, and I tried with all kinds of YouTube videos. I went to a meditation class. It's just my brain can't do it. I think it's just the way I'm wired. My brain just will not calm down. I have learned other ways of dealing with stress. Number one would probably be yoga because I've found that it's like meditation in motion.

 

Chris Cerillo (21m 29s):

As long as my body's like doing something, I can calm down long enough to slow down and be less stressed. Yoga and running have become huge stress-free things for me. It's just staying in motion.

 

Geoff Allix (21m 46s):

That's the thing. There's a distinction between mindfulness and meditation that, actually, you can do almost anything mindfully, but you don't. Obviously, meditation is mindful, but equally, you can run mindfully. I used to run a lot and you are literally thinking about what you're doing in running or swimming. I'm certainly always thinking about my technique and am I doing it right? That's essentially a mindful activity.

 

Chris Cerillo (22m 22s):

You can't think about anything else, right?

 

Geoff Allix (22m 23s):

Right. I think a lot of sports can actually be quite mindful and actually, the meditation experts say this. They say you can do everything mindfully. You can prepare food mindfully. You don't have to just be thinking, "I've got to do a half an hour meditation." You can live. I think there are people who do it really well, but if you say a Buddhist monk or something, they're living their whole life mindfully and that doesn't mean they're meditating the whole time.

 

Chris Cerillo (22m 51s):

I definitely tried to do that. I do like trail running and you really can't think about anything else where like, "There's a big rock. How am I going to navigate around that? I need to stay up right." Yes, that's what I would say: being stress-free just in general. Any person who works full time, good luck. You have deadlines. You have things that you have to do. You have to be an adult. You have to take care of your animals or your children if you have them. Life isn't easy, so being stress-free is hard. I know when I'm super stressed. I can feel more burning sensations or more tingling and I'm like, "I need to calm down."

 

Geoff Allix (23m 36s):

It's the one that you get instantly, don't you? If I get stressed, I can just feel symptoms coming up straight away.

 

Chris Cerillo (23m 46s):

Yes. Yes, totally. It's almost like a good thing that my body can tell me to slow down.

 

Geoff Allix (23m 52s):

Yes, because you can then fix it quickly as well. Talking about stress, you've got experience in dealing with big life decisions and how that affects your MS. In your case, you decided to come out about your sexuality publicly. How did you manage to deal with that?

 

Chris Cerillo (24m 15s):

That's what I like, publicly. It's like I'm a star.

 

Geoff Allix (24m 22s):

How did you manage the stress of that and stay calm through what had been a traumatic time?

 

Chris Cerillo (24m 34s):

Yes, that was rough. That was probably the roughest patch of my life. Being diagnosed with MS is really what catapulted everything else. It was within a few months of being diagnosed that I realized I was and it was time to come out, end my seven-year relationship, and move out. I'm on my own. It was a lot. How did I learn to deal with stress at that moment? I think I really leaned into just exercise, yoga, talking to friends, and therapy all at once. It was like I have to take care of myself right now because this was a lot.

 

Chris Cerillo (25m 19s):

Being diagnosed just made me re-evaluate everything in my life because you just don't know what's going to happen in the future. You don't know. You might not be able to run, you might have less vision in the future, or anything. My other eye could get optic neuritis, making me less capable of seeing or reading. You don't know. That's the truth for everybody, but I feel like once you're diagnosed with a big disease, I guess I'll say like MS, it really puts it front and center that you need to live your life now because you don't know.

 

Chris Cerillo (26m 0s):

With that in mind, I was doing a lot of yoga, a lot of thinking, and journaling, and it actually came to me while I was, I can really remember it vividly, in a yoga class. My brain was just being like, "You're . You need to come out," so I did. It was a lot to have to call my close people, my friends, and my family with the MS diagnosis, then a month later, be like, "Hey, I'm also a , by the way." It was a lot for sure.

 

Chris Cerillo (26m 41s):

I think, without close friends and a close network, that's also mentioned a lot in OMS with having your support system is so important. It would have been so much harder if I didn't have close friends and family that were like, "Okay. Makes sense," to both of the things that I had to tell them. If I didn't have that, it would have been a lot harder, but I know I'm really lucky for that. Just leaning on social support and being in therapy, I think it helped to already be started on OMS by the time I came out because I had already learned that these are the things I need to do for my health.

 

Chris Cerillo (27m 28s):

Another stressor, let's keep going, let's keep up.

 

Geoff Allix (27m 34s):

There are all sorts of different major, stressful things. It may be that it's caused by a major change in career, or you might have bereavement. There are all sorts of big things that happen in life. Dealing with those things, would you say that it is that friendship group, or are there specific things you think are particularly useful to deal with big traumatic decisions and changes?

 

Chris Cerillo (28m 2s):

I think I mentioned the people, the three therapy, exercise, but I also think it's your perspective on life. That's really what's helped me along and really what makes me enjoy every day. It's just literally doing and saying what I want to do and say. I always think you're going to die either way so why not just do it? I think it's a Lucille Ball quote where she says, "I'd rather regret something I did than something I didn't."

 

Chris Cerillo (28m 44s):

That's really how I live my life and it's going to suck and it's going to hurt for weeks, months, maybe even years when you decide to change your life, but the other side of it is just so beautiful and so worth living. As hard as it was, I'm glad that I'm on this side of it.

 

Geoff Allix (29m 10s):

There are obvious positives for you because you're living life as you want, but in terms of your family and friendship group and things like that, have there been positives to that side of things as well? Not the obvious positives, but in your life in general, have there been positives to making those big decisions?

 

Chris Cerillo (29m 32s):

Positives. I think coming out with both things, MS and being , really changed a lot of my relationships and made them closer because I was like, "I need to tell you this difficult thing," and "Oh yes, you're still here. You're still rooting for me and you're a part of my circle." It definitely increased the friendships that I have and family members too. It just encouraged us all to be more honest with ourselves and with each other, which I think is so important.

 

Geoff Allix (30m 9s):

I think there's an element that’s polarizing. It really shows people to either be really good friends or maybe they're not the friends you thought they were. If they're not prepared to accept the slight changes in me because of MS, then maybe they weren't as good a friend as I thought they were. Then some of the friends, you just think, I didn't realize. I've had infusion in hospital and stuff and it's the other end of the county. It's a long way for the hospital where it is, but some of the friends who came to visit me were not necessarily the ones I thought.

 

Geoff Allix (30m 52s):

I was like, "Wow, you've actually gone out of your way to do that just to keep me company. We've become much better friends. You've actually shown yourself to be a much kinder person than I necessarily realized." It can be really positive, I think, in some ways.

 

Chris Cerillo (31m 15s):

Totally, yes. It's taught me to ask for help sometimes too. I'm not good at all about that, like asking for help, but since they know about the MS and know I have limitations, they're sticking around, sometimes I can be like, "Hey, not feeling good." We had snow last night so this is a good example. My friend was out and about. I don't know what she was doing. She lives a couple of streets over and I'm like, "Hey, can you put my windshield wipers up on my car?" She's like, "No problem." I didn't want to go all the way downstairs because I'm so drained. I've been sick lately and my MS has been acting up at the same time.

 

Chris Cerillo (31m 56s):

Wonderful, but she was like, "No problem," and then texted me like, "All done." It's little things like that. We're not getting IV prednisone for a while there. I had it three times so far when my MS has been flaring. It was earlier on in my diagnosis, not lately, but yes, friends just being totally willing to be there with you and just sit in the room while you're getting an infusion and read a book. That's an incredible support. It really is.

 

Geoff Allix (32m 30s):

One thing I want to ask is how you live life to the fullest as someone with MS?

 

Chris Cerillo (32m 39s):

I think it has to do with just not letting MS stop me and almost, in a way, letting it fuel me because like I said, with that diagnosis, I was like, "Oh God, my whole life is changing, but I'm just going to let it change. I'm going to do what I want." It's already scary. It's like a looming threat of MS, but I'm just turning it around and being like, "Oh, well.

 

Chris Cerillo (33m 19s):

This is not the main focus of my life." If I'm going to describe myself in a paragraph, MS is probably not even going to be in the paragraph at all, maybe a footnote. It's there, but it's not going to hold me back from what I want to do, because if it did, I'm going to have serious regrets in my life. I have a literal bucket list though. It's literally this small book that I have. I don't know where I got it from. It's a real thing. Yes, yes. I add to it all the time and I cross things off it all the time. It just makes me focus on life. We have to do the things we do as adults.

 

Chris Cerillo (34m 2s):

We have to work, we have to pay bills, but then what comes next for me is like what do I want to do? What cool thing can I do in my life? Because maybe it will "get me" in the future. Anything could get us. We could get hit by a bus, but I'm not going to focus on that. I'm going to focus on enjoying my life while I can.

 

Geoff Allix (34m 23s):

What would you say to someone who's thinking, "Well, I'm not sure whether I do that, whether I go on that big trip, whether I do this, move house, or make this change?” What would you say to encourage people to make that leap?

 

Chris Cerillo (34m 40s):

I think it's a calculated decision, right? I always do the pros and cons. I want to go to Italy, but then there's the thought of like, how much is that going to cost? When can I actually do it? It's a nice balancing act. List everything out, and you got to realize. If fear is the only thing holding you back, you have to do it. That's my rule. If it's the only thing that's making me not do this thing, it's because I'm afraid to do it, forget it. I'm just going to do it. I'm going to plow through. That's a good way to live. Ask yourself that question. If I wasn't afraid, what would I do?

 

Geoff Allix (35m 20s):

You mentioned your bucket list. As a final question, can I ask what else is on your bucket list for a full life? What's a big bucket list thing?

 

Chris Cerillo (35m 31s):

There are so many things. There are so many pages.

 

Geoff Allix (35m 33s):

You're not going to win the Super Bowl, I'm sorry.

 

Chris Cerillo (35m 34s):

There are some things like that. I'm just not going to put that on the list, but you never know. Let's see what is on my bucket list. I think one of the big ones is I want to buy a little house in the woods and adopt an old dog. That's been my long-time plan. I would say just because you never know with MS. Just one floor in my house, but it's a big future plan. Also, like I said, I actually really do want to go to Italy.

 

Chris Cerillo (36m 15s):

My grandfather's from there so I'm like, "I’d really like to see it post-COVID, I guess," but there's also a bunch of little stuff on there that I can tick off in day-to-day life. It's been great. Yes. What's on your bucket list?

 

Geoff Allix (36m 32s):

Yes. I don't really think of a bucket list as small things, but maybe I should actually think of having big and little things. The things that I'd like to do are getting back things that I had before, like climbing, I was going to say, a mountain, but our mountains are not as big as your mountains. They’re quite small. These are things that I used to run-up. The highest mountain in Wales used to be between my parents, who are separated, where they lived.

 

Geoff Allix (37m 19s):

One of the routes was basically Parsons Mountain. Normally, people like to go up and down in a day, but I was doing a lot of mountain running and stuff at the time. I'd think I'm going to do that in a few hours. I'm going to run up and down it. Now, just if I could get up that mountain, that would be such a major achievement. I don't know if it's achievable or not, but it's something I can have out there as something I could possibly do one day if I got a bit better or you know, or even whether it involves help and I did it like an off-road E-trike thing.

 

Geoff Allix (38m 2s):

Even if I did it with that, that would still be quite an achievement.

 

Chris Cerillo (38m 10s):

Yes, you can definitely do it.

 

Geoff Allix (38m 10s):

Could I just push myself a bit further to do these sorts of things?

 

Chris Cerillo (38m 14s):

Right, that's the question.

 

Geoff Allix (38m 16s):

Yes, but I liked the idea of having smaller things as well. Could I, next week, do something not a major thing, but yes, just a lot of tight targets I think are a good thing. It's good to do that.

 

Chris Cerillo (38m 32s):

I put ax-throwing on my list. I crossed it off a few months ago for my friend's birthday, but it was just like a little thing that I always wanted to do. It was a super fun exercise class.

 

Geoff Allix (38m 46s):

Is ax-throwing you said?

 

Chris Cerillo (38m 48s):

Ax-throwing, yes.

 

Geoff Allix (38m 48s):

That's a thing where I live now.

 

Chris Cerillo (38m 48s):

I didn’t know that it's big there.

 

Geoff Allix (38m 49s):

It wasn't a year ago, but now there's this ax-throwing place. I've just been tempted to do it.

 

Chris Cerillo (38m 57s):

You should put it on the list. It's super fun. It's dangerous, kind of, but super fun.

 

Geoff Allix (39m 2s):

Yes, I bet. Everyone's standing on one side and throwing them the other way.

 

Chris Cerillo (39m 6s):

Yes. If you do it right, it's not dangerous. Cross it off, that small thing.

 

Geoff Allix (39m 13s):

Okay. I think that's a good idea. Just having the idea of journaling as well and having a list of things and taking things off the list. That's good.

 

Chris Cerillo (39m 22s):

Yes, it's a good life.

 

Geoff Allix (39m 24s):

Excellent. Well with that, I'd like to thank you very much for joining us, Chris Cerillo.

 

Chris Cerillo (39m 26s):

Yes, thank you so much for having me. It's been fun.

 

Geoff Allix (40m 11s):

Thank you for listening to this episode of Living Well with MS. Please check out this episode’s show notes at www.overcomingms.org/podcast. You'll find all sorts of useful links and bonus information there. Do you have questions about this episode or ideas about future ones? Email us at podcast@overcomingms.org. We'd love to hear from you. You can also subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast platform, so you never miss an episode. Living Well with MS is kindly supported by a grant from the Happy Charitable Trust. If you'd like to support the Overcoming MS charity and help keep our podcast advertising-free, you can donate online at www.overcomingms.org/donate. To learn more about Overcoming MS and its array of free content and programs, including webinars, recipes, exercise guides, OMS Circles, our global network of community support groups, and more, please visit our website at www.overcomingms.org. While you are there, don't forget to register for our monthly e-newsletter so you can be informed about the podcast and other news and updates from Overcoming MS. Thanks again for tuning in and see you next time.