Religion & Spirituality
12 How to Apply Successful Business Principles to Your Life With Author and Former Vice President at Chick-fil-A, Dee Ann Turner
2018-10-02
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Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
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Today we have the privilege of speaking with Dee Ann Turner. We recorded this episode a while back while she was serving as Vice President of Corporate Talent at Chick-fil-A. She's recently retired after an amazing career. I hope that you enjoy the leadership principles and stories she shares. Here's our chat.
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Dee Ann.
Dee Ann Turner: Thank you so much. It's great to be with you today.
Laura Dugger: Well, we're so glad to have you. For anyone listening today who doesn't know you yet, can you just give us a quick picture of your life? [00:01:26]
Dee Ann Turner: Well, most of the time it's on an airplane somewhere these days, but I have a wonderful husband, three grown sons. I'm about to be an empty nester. My last one's headed off to college in the fall.
Then on the professional side, I've spent over 32 years now with Chick-fil-A in various roles. Spent 30 years of that leading our people function. And for the last two years, I've built and led our sustainability function.
Laura Dugger: Wow, that's an incredible resume. A lot of people listening today might be working moms as well So do you have any tips or encouragement to share with them?
Dee Ann Turner: Actually, you know you learn as you go along. One of the things that I like to tell working moms is at the end of the day, tell yourself, "I did the best I could." We tend to beat up on ourselves and think about all the things. "Well, I didn't get to that or I didn't get to this." But the most important thing is at the end of the day know that you did absolutely the best you can do and that was enough. [00:02:31]
Then the second thing is to figure out what's important and let the rest go. Sometimes we try to be Wonder Woman and perfect in so many different ways. It is impossible to do it all. And so the only way to be successful at both is to decide what is important in both arenas and not let those balls drop.
The other stuff, be willing to say, that's just not important today. And of course, with our families, we have that incredible opportunity to raise those children. And I actually feel like that's the biggest responsibility I've been given regardless of other responsibilities in my life, and so they always came first.
When it came to time, sometimes I had to explain, "Hey, mom has to go this week, I have to travel to this place, but next week I'm going to be able to be off and I'm going to catch both of your baseball games."
So we had real open conversation to the point that at times I actually would ask them, "What's most important to you this week? [00:03:30] What can I not miss for you?" And that helped a lot to open up that conversation. Because you learn from your children what's important and you also, especially as they become teenagers, you learn what's not important and what was important for me. I realize they're like, "No, mom, you don't need to do that one. But what I'd really like you to do is this."
So just find out what your priorities are and realize you can't do it all. And forgive yourself with the things you miss and recognize that you did the best you could.
Laura Dugger: Wow, that's so good. Thank you for sharing that. And stories in general are so powerful. So we would love to hear the story behind your book, which is titled, It's My Pleasure: The Impact of Extraordinary Talent and a Compelling Culture. Can you just tell us about your journey to publish this great resource?
Dee Ann Turner: Sure. In 2013, our founder at Chick-fil-A, Truett Cathy, he became ill and for the most part left the business. That was the last year of his life. When he passed away in September 2014, I had begun writing just a series of blog posts on my own personal blog that that was my way of reflecting on the grief of losing him. [00:04:43]
At the same time, my dad passed away. So these two great business mentors in my life died. And ever since I was a little girl, my way of working that out was to write about it. So before long, I realized that I put together several blog posts and then I was talking about all the things that I had learned from Truett. And I thought, "You know, this might be valuable to the other people in Chick-fil-A."
My time with Truett was specifically centered around growing and strengthening our culture and also in the area of talent selection and development. Truett believed that people decisions were the most important decisions that an organization could make. And so he constantly reinforced that. Even in the last visit I had with him, having worked for him for nearly 30 years at that point, he was still having that conversation with me.
So what I recognized as he passed away is that it was almost like I had this treasure that he had given and I needed to share it with the rest of the organization. [00:05:47] And I specifically needed to help our leadership and our staff and Chick-fil-A franchisees remember that people decisions are the most important decisions we make and how we had made those over time to be the successful organization that we became under Truett's leadership.
And then the realization to me was that this organization was growing so fast and we were adding restaurants and adding people and so many people, hundreds of thousands of people associated with Chick-fil-A that would never know Truett and what he taught us. So I felt like I had a responsibility to those who came after him for them to know what was important to Truett as well.
So those two things kind of came together. I started writing and quite honestly, it just poured out of me. I went on a couple of vacations over Christmas and over spring break, and before I knew it, I'd put together this book. So it really almost was by accident that it all came together, but I realized what I had, and I felt like I should share it. [00:06:51]
So the funny thing about the whole thing was it was written to help our internal audience, and I had no idea it would become so popular among an external audience as well.
Laura Dugger: Oh, that is fascinating. I had no idea the backstory behind all of that. It is very apparent that it just poured out of you because the book is incredible. And you're right, it's applicable to people inside or outside the organization. I just wanted to say I'm sorry, that must have been a really tough year losing your dad and Truett at the same time.
Dee Ann Turner: Well, thank you. I appreciate that. It was, but I'm just so grateful for all that I learned from both of them over their lifetime.
Laura Dugger: Sure. Well, and let's dive into your book a little bit more. Let's spend a little bit of time talking about a few topics and illustrating how they may be practical tools for our listeners. So one thing that you talk about, you give a lot of credit to mentors that you've had at Chick-fil-A. [00:07:49] What are some of those practical lessons that they taught you?
Dee Ann Turner: I think maybe one of the most important lessons that I learned from one of my mentors that I talk about in the book, Jimmy Collins. Jimmy Chick-fil-A's first non-family president and he retired in 2001. But he really, during the course of my career, really took me under his wing, so to speak, and taught me so much about life and about leadership.
One of the very early lessons he taught me was this. He said, "It's kindness to refuse immediately what you eventually intend to deny." I'll say it again. It's kindness to refuse immediately what you eventually intend to deny.
So where that played out specifically in my role at the time and what he was teaching me was this whole idea that we have a very extensive, and still do, but extensive selection process to be a franchisee or a staff member. [00:08:48]
For instance, today we received 30,000 inquiries to be a franchisee, and about 30,000 to be a corporate staff member at Chick-fil-A, and we only select each year about 100 in each of those categories. So you can see the competitiveness. And we spend a lot of time ensuring that we make great decisions.
But what he was trying to teach me at the time is, obviously, with those kind of numbers, we turn down a lot of people. In fact, I said sometimes my job is really about saying no nicely more than it is about saying yes. And his point there was, you know, if you're going to tell somebody no, tell them quickly, because to drag them along through a long process and tell them no, you know, months into this, which did happen sometimes. But we wanted that to happen as few times as possible.
So that was one of the life lessons he taught me and I can't tell you how many times that spilled over into other parts of my life. I use the quote a lot and even in parenting. It really alleviates a lot of issues, if you just quickly say no rather than, "Well, let me ask your dad and let me think about it a while and let me sleep on it. I don't know yet." [00:09:59]
I've been through all that with teenagers. I realized that if I use that principle to say no quickly, then that was a lot kinder to them, and their expectations weren't raised and then deflated when I eventually said no to whatever it is that they wanted to do.
Jimmy taught me another lesson that still is so relevant in my work in leading the group that I lead now, which is, he said, "It's easier to restrain mustangs than to kick mules. It's easier to restrain mustangs than to kick mules."
What he meant by that is go ahead and select that person who's smarter than you, who has all this talent. You know, they may get ahead of you sometimes and you may be saying, "Hey, hang on, hang on." But isn't that so much better than somebody that doesn't have initiative? He doesn't want to get in there and do things and you're constantly prodding and pushing and trying to move them along." So I thought that was quite a bit of wisdom. [00:10:56]
Then the last thing I'd share with you, and I'm kind of camped out on Jimmy as my mentor, but the third thing I would say about him from a servant leadership standpoint, I tell a story, and it's my pleasure, about Jimmy demonstrating this in so many different ways. But the thing that's just never left me, the image I have of him, even though he retired in 2001, is that, at the time he retired, he was the 65-year-old president of a $1 billion company.
One of the things he did every single day was he stopped his car on the exit ramp where our corporate headquarters is located, and he picked up the trash on that exit ramp. Now, that trash and being on that exit ramp was not the responsibility of Chick-fil-A. It was the responsibility of the local municipality. But because they didn't really do their job well, Jimmy decided to do it for them. [00:11:46]
But he did it because he wanted guests who came to Chick-fil-A to have a remarkable experience from the time they got off the highway till they got to our front door about two and a half miles later. So he would pick up the trash. And you know, he never said anything. He just got out and did it. And he took it to the office and he threw it away.
He demonstrated what servant leadership was. It wasn't long that our grounds maintenance staff realized that maybe it's not a good idea for the 65-year-old president of a billion-dollar company to be out on the side of the road picking up trash that they began doing that. And you know here it is 17 years later and our grounds maintenance staff still keeps that exit ramp clean.
Now, unless they're listening to this podcast or they read it's my pleasure, I'm not sure they still know why they do it and who set the original example. But that's what servant leadership can do. When the leader demonstrates at that level what's expected and how to create a remarkable experience like that, then others learn by watching them, not hearing them, how to do it themselves. [00:12:51]
Laura Dugger: That's incredible. And the impact of that that years later people are following in these footsteps Something else you discuss is the employee value promise. Can you just elaborate on that?
Dee Ann Turner: You know, it's a way of saying what you get for what you give. Some companies call it a value proposition. I don't really like that terminology because a proposition just sounds like an offer or a business transaction. A promise is a commitment.
So at Chick-fil-A, when I think about the value promise, I think about the commitment that employees have to the organization and the organization has to employees. So this is what it looks like at Chick-fil-A. First of all, we talk about caring more.
We ask our employees to care a lot for Chick-fil-A guests. Regardless of the level they are in the organization, whether they're a franchisee or whether they're a corporate staff member, or team member, the expectation is that guests will be well cared for, even to the point of going above and beyond what's expected. [00:13:59]
In return, we try to demonstrate care for Chick-fil-A employees in a number of ways. That began with Truett and back to his original restaurant when he was helping one of his very first employees fund his college education through a jar that was on the counter in his first restaurant. It was in the 1950s.
And that first helping of that young man to get his college education turned into a scholarship program that just this last year alone Chick-fil-A gave away nearly $9 million to deserving young people to pursue their college education.
So, you know, we expect a lot of hard work. We expect at every level of our organization to serve guests, to implement what we call second-mile service, go above and beyond what's expected. But in return, we care about people deeply and try to create an experience even for them that's remarkable as an employee. [00:14:55]
The second part of that is to serve better. We select everybody who comes to Chick-fil-A... One of the reasons they're selected in whatever role they have is because they have a heart for service. We are in the service business. Sure, we make a great chicken sandwich, but what it's really about is how that sandwich gets served.
The sandwich can be duplicated almost. I haven't found one that's exactly like it, but people can serve a chicken sandwich that's prepared similarly to ours. But the service is really the differentiator and it's the competitive advantage.
But in return, we also serve those that are part of the Chick-fil-A family. In fact, at our organization, the higher position you hold, the more you're expected to serve. Quickly, just one of my favorite stories about that. I had been with the organization just a few months, I was a very young person. I was right out of college. I was an hourly admin in our corporate office. [00:15:53]
My husband and I were on our first annual convention that Chick-fil-A has and I got on the plane and our seats were in first class. And I sat there as Dan Cathy, now our CEO and at the time executive vice president for the company, and his family walked by to sit in the back of the plane. And that's what Truett taught us, was that we're there to serve others. So we expect those associated with Chick-fil-A to serve others, and in turn we serve each other.
Then lastly, the part that really is meaningful or most meaningful to me is the impact lives part that we focus on. And that's part of our corporate purpose to be a positive influence on all we come in contact with. That's really what's kept me at Chick-fil-A all these years. And I think that's why most people are a part of the organization. [00:16:40]
I mean, while it's a great sandwich, again, it's certainly not motivation to spend your entire adult career in one organization. What has been done because of the sales of that Chick-fil-A sandwich, I think is what continues to attract people and retain people in the organization.
Truett used to say, we're not in the chicken business, we're in the people business. And even more than that, especially the way he lived his life, I think we're in the influence business. And we have that opportunity and we have this platform to impact lives.
So while a team member is serving a chicken sandwich somewhere right now while we talk to a customer, the impact of what that sale does and the lives that are touched all over the world because of the work we do, that's to me the most important part of our value promise, our employee value promise, is that I think our lives are impacted by being associated with Chick-fil-A and we have the opportunity to impact the lives of others.
Laura Dugger: Wow. That is compelling to get to be a part of something significant beyond yourself. [00:17:44]
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Laura Dugger: You also discuss a person's calling, and I think that everyone listening will identify with this. So how do you know what a calling is and what it is not?
Dee Ann Turner: Well, I don't think calling is just a job. In fact, I like to say that a job is just listed on your resume, but a calling echoes in your epitaph. A calling is that thing that you were made to do. Sometimes we find that early in life. Even my example of writing is a great way. I feel a calling to that. And I felt that calling from the time I was eight years old. That was something I always wanted to do. But, you know, I won't say how old, but much, much later, many decades later, before I really had the opportunity to fulfill that calling.
So sometimes we have to do what... you know, I like to say, sometimes we have to do what God gave us to do before we can do what God made us to do. But a calling is that thing that it gets you out of bed in the morning, and it's not just the alarm clock or a cup of coffee, but it's really that thing that sizzles in your soul, resonates in your heart. You got to go do it no matter what. That's a calling. Anything less than that most oftentimes is just a job, it's just a way to make a living. But a calling is the way to make a life.
I think that when people are able to discover that and discover what they were really made to do, then that's when they have the best opportunity to have that impact that we talked about. [00:20:30]
Laura Dugger: That definitely makes sense. I'm going to read just a short little quote that I loved in your book. And if anybody has your book, it's on page 79. And it simply says, when it talks about a calling, "It creates an inner drive and restlessness when we live outside of it and peace when we are embracing it and living inside of it." That was so good. I just love that you shared that.
Dee Ann Turner: Oh, thank you. Oh, I actually like that quote too. I'm sorry I didn't think of it when I was sharing it. But yeah, yeah. And that's exactly how I felt about my own calling and was able to write about it for that reason.
Laura Dugger: Oh, that's great. You mentioned in a different part of your book that you found your calling was to help others find their calling. So if a listener had the opportunity, let's pretend they're sitting down with you today wanting to apply these principles to enrich their own life or their business or their relationship, where would you recommend they start? [00:21:29]
Dee Ann Turner: I think you have to start with an examination of really understanding obviously who you are, what your strengths are, what your capabilities are, what your greatest desire is. And write those down. And evaluate how you're spending the time in your life and does it match up with that? I mean, even your time away from work, how do you get to live out those principles that are important to you and use your strengths on a daily basis? Because if you're not pursuing that, then you're drifting.
So finding your calling, finding out what you're supposed to do, requires tremendous intentionality and focus. And like I said, it can be different at different times in life. For me, in talking about helping other people find their path, my experience of that was actually, I thought I was called into full-time ministry when I came out of college. I thought I had really blown it. I was like, "I was supposed to do this." [00:22:31]
And then it was one day, I mean, literally somebody left my office and we had had a discussion... Actually what happened is I had told them that what they wanted to do with Chick-fil-A, be a franchisee, was not a fit for them. I said, "This is not going to fulfill your life to do this." And I had reasons that I felt that way.
They walked out and... we talked about other things they might want to do while they were in my office. And that was when it hit me. It's like, well, I am doing what I was called to do, which is really helping people find their path, whatever it may be. And sometimes it was helping them find a path within Chick-fil-A and sometimes it was quite honestly helping them find a path somewhere else. But I felt truly that that was what I was called to do.
Laura Dugger: Oh, that makes sense. And you do it so well. And circling back to the mentoring topic, it seems like you just naturally pour out so much and mentor your team along the way. And you had this amazing privilege to have Truett Cathy as one of your mentors. Could you just share any stories that come to mind? [00:23:33] Because a lot of people don't know about him and haven't experienced him in the same way you have.
Dee Ann Turner: Sure. Well, you know, you say that and the funny thing is so many people were impacted personally by Truett's life. I mean, the people at Chick-fil-A, I was just one of many that had that opportunity, as well as when I think about his 13 foster care homes that he established. He didn't just have children in foster care. I mean, he was their grandpa. They called him Grandpa. He got custody rights for all these children and gave them a life that they wouldn't have otherwise had. He completely paid for their educations, just really raised them as his own.
And the customers and the interactions he had with Chick-fil-A team members and their restaurants, his influence, the reach of it was so far. So yes, I mean, he was one of my mentors and I was fortunate enough to be mentored but literally hundreds and hundreds, probably thousands of people that had that experience. [00:24:34]
When I think of stories that were most meaningful to me with Truett, I alluded to this a little earlier, but I think about the last time I was with Truett. I mentioned that he got sick in 2013. At the time he was 92 years old, so he knew that time was limited. And so during that last year before he got sick, he would call me over to his office to talk about something.
And before I left, he would look at me and he would say, "Now Dee Ann, remember people decisions are the very most important decisions we make." And the first time he did this that year, I have to say I was a little bit like, Okay, doesn't he know I know that? I've worked for him for nearly 30 years. We've been doing this a long time together. Why would he say that to me?" So I thought, "Well, you know, he's getting a little older, so he's repeating things."
The next month I went back about another issue, and before I left, he did it again. He looked at me very seriously and sternly and said, "Dee Ann, don't forget, people decisions are the most important decisions that we made." [00:25:36]
Well, this went on a couple more times and I was a little slow on the tape on this, but by the fourth time I realized exactly what he was doing. And what he was doing is making sure that I understood this, that I would not forget how important he thought this was to the success of Chick-fil-A.
Again, at the time that he passed away, I mean, we had grown tremendously just in the last few years. We were around a $6 billion business at that time and growing really quickly. He knew how important these things were. Well, I didn't think much about that again until right before Truett passed away. And there were a group of leaders that gathered late one Friday afternoon, or the Friday night before he died the next week. And we were telling Truett stories, and we were recalling our last times with him.
So I shared the story that I just shared with you about what he had done and other people in the room mentioned similar things that Truett had told them. [00:26:35] And we realized how intentional he'd been right up to the end, 92 years old. And even though we had worked with him for decades, he made sure we knew what was important to him about the business. And what a lesson that was.
You know, sometimes I know I do this even as a leader. It's like, well, I've already told them that. Or I told them that twice. Why would I need to tell them that again? Here he demonstrated with people he trusted that he'd worked with for decades, he demonstrated that he still had principles that were significantly important and he wanted to make sure we remember.
So being the mentor that taught me how to mentor is probably the most important lesson he taught me. And that's that: say it, say it again, tell them what you said, and then most certainly demonstrate by your actions what you said.
Laura Dugger: Thank you for sharing all of those stories. I feel like that resonates with each of us and I feel like it can apply either to our business or, like you mentioned, our parenting. [00:27:39] If a listener is curious and looking up your book, where can they find your resource?
Dee Ann Turner: Well, I have a little bit of sad news about that right now. Currently, the hard copy is out of print. My publisher went out of business a while back and we had run out of copies, but it is in the process of being republished. So I'm hoping later this year, it'll be back on sale on Amazon.
I have been told that there are some other places online that you can locate it. It is on Kindle in audio. Again, hopefully it'll create pent-up demand, and when it's re-released later this year people will be able to get the hard copy of it.
Laura Dugger: Wonderful. You're also on RightNow Media.
Dee Ann Turner: Yes.
Laura Dugger: If anyone has access to that.
Dee Ann Turner: Yes, RightNow Media has the whole video series about the book, so that's a great way. And then follow me on my website, at Deeannturner.com. And then also on Facebook is the author page, Dee Ann Turner, on Instagram @Deeannturner, and on Twitter @Deeanneturner. [00:28:46] So you can get all the updates on the latest of what I'm writing about and learning on my leadership journey that I'd love to share with all of your listeners as well.
Laura Dugger: That's wonderful. We will link to that in the show notes. So if anybody's driving right now, they can't write all those handles down, we will have it easy for them to come find.
We're called The Savvy Sauce here for a reason. "Savvy" means practical knowledge or discernment. And we would love to hear some insight from your life to inspire us with our own action item. So as our final question today, what is your savvy sauce?
Dee Ann Turner: My savvy sauce is to focus on one day at a time. It's so easy for us to get 5, 10, 20 years out, and I used to do that, especially as a young person. I had a 20-year plan, I had a life plan. And then I got to the point that I realized that to be the best leader I could be, and I'm not talking about excusing yourself from good planning practices, but to be the best leader, to be the best wife, to be the best mom, I need to be in the here and now.
So I start every day before everybody else rises in my house. I focus on what my day looks like. I spend my quiet time. I center myself to be ready to meet the rest of the world and to be present in the moment of today. And that's my savvy sauce. [00:30:11]
Laura Dugger: I love it, and a perfect place to end with such wisdom. Thank you for sharing your leadership principles and thank you for living those out every day as you serve others, Dee Ann. It's been a pleasure speaking with you today.
Dee Ann Turner: It's been completely my pleasure and I appreciate you having me today, Laura.
Laura Dugger: Hi Friends. We wanted to share our love of Chick-fil-A with you. So head on over to our website, thesavvysauce.com, and find our giveaway tab, where you are gonna find more information to enter to win a giveaway for a Chick-fil-A gift card. This is for a limited time only, so head over today.
One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.
This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. [00:31:19] We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.
This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus.
We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. [00:32:21] Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him.
At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John.
Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you. [00:33:24]
We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
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