Religion & Spirituality
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Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
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Laura Dugger: You guys, today I have the privilege to interview a leader who I have admired my entire life. He is a natural teacher and his sense of humor will be evident as you hear our chat. He is president and CEO of Leman Property Management, so his financial and business principles are incredible. But more importantly to me, he's my dad. I am so honored to get to share him with you today. I hope you enjoy his life lessons as much as I have.
This episode was made possible by an anonymous donor to Midwest Food Bank. They paid the sponsorship bit to help spread the word that Midwest Food Bank works to alleviate hunger and poverty throughout the world by gathering food donations and distributing them to nonprofit agencies and disaster sites.
If you would like to learn more about Midwest Food Bank, make a donation, or see what volunteer opportunities are available, please visit them at midwestfoodbank.org. [00:01:25]
Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Dad.
Bill Leman: Thanks. It's great to be with you here.
Laura Dugger: I'm so excited. This is very special to get to spend some intentional time with you. Your life experience and thoughtful reflection are a few reasons we want to glean life wisdom from you today. So, let's start off by having you tell everyone a little bit more about your background.
Bill Leman: Okay. I was born in a town of about 2,000, born and raised there, and I had 10 siblings. My brother always liked to say that he had five sisters, and each one of them had five brothers. We had a big family, but we were very close and a great childhood.
I married Jeanne Grimm, who's not only been an incredible wife and mother, but is also really my best friend. We talked when we got married, and we just both agreed that we always wanted to have each other as our best friend, and that's truly the way it's been all these years. We just celebrated our 42nd anniversary a couple weeks ago.
We were blessed with three amazing children. One of them actually produces podcasts. And they married three wonderful spouses and each couple has blessed us with three beautiful grandchildren. So we're kind of a symmetrical family, I guess. Three is an important number to us.
I'm thankful to have become a CPA after graduating from Illinois State University, and I've enjoyed being a part of a public accounting firm for a short time, followed by almost 40 years in the real estate management business. [00:02:58]
Laura Dugger: You've told me that there were a few specific mentor figures in your life who gave you helpful advice. Who were those people, and what did they teach you?
Bill Leman: I had some great mentors. My father and grandfather, I had uncles on both sides of the family and one minister who really helped shape who I am. They provided guidance about my outlook on life and very practical examples of how I should live life.
The specific examples that I can think of are maintaining a positive attitude, expecting the best. I learned that from a couple of my uncles. From my father, I learned about doing my part in every aspect of life. Most importantly, from all of them I learned about loving God and trusting in Him in everything I do, and to walk close to Him, and to stay in tune with His Word and His Holy Spirit.
Laura Dugger: You always have had an extremely positive outlook on life. Where does that come from? [00:03:59]
Bill Leman: Well, I was always given very positive feedback and support by those mentors and by others, and by my family. A lot of it is just supported by passages from the Bible. I think the Bible is the most positive book you can ever get your hands on.
I just jotted down a few of the verses that quickly came to my mind when I thought about positive outlooks that the Bible shares. These are different verses. I can do all things through Christ. With God all things are possible. Ask and you shall receive. Freely you have received, freely give.
So there's four passages that talk about a positive outlook on life. I was able to experience just some wonderful results when I tried that, when I implemented that mindset and I looked to expecting the best and to believe that everything was possible and the results are so reinforcing. [00:04:59]
Kind of a cute example, we had a local bank who every year hosted an economic forecast breakfast and there were maybe 200 people that would be invited for breakfast, and we all filled out a form of our predictions for the year to come.
I remember specifically one year, I thought, you know what, I'm just going to answer each one of these in the most optimistic possible way that I can answer it. And I did. And a year later, I was given the trophy for the most right. And I thought, when I'm looking for the best, somehow God provides that for me.
Laura Dugger: What or who would you say is most important in your life?
Bill Leman: That has probably somewhat evolved over the years, although there are some things that definitely remain the same. I'll go through a few of those. First of all, who's important? Jesus is the most important to me. Walking with Him yields what the Bible kind of talks about as fruit of the Spirit. Some of my favorites there are love and joy and peace and contentment, all things that come from following God. [00:06:09]
Secondly is definitely my wife, Jeanne. She gives wonderful support. She helps me focus on what's important. She helps me put things in perspective. Not least important, she makes me laugh. She's got a wonderful sense of humor and it's just made our life so enjoyable.
I always kept a couple of sayings in my desk drawer in one in my clothes closet. And I noticed that she would spot those and she'd insert little comments that were making sure that I saw things the way that she saw them. I just would have to laugh when I'd open my desk drawer and see that and see how she had changed some advice I was giving to myself and making sure that her perspective was represented as well.
I had one in my desk, and as a matter of fact, I still have it. I don't remember the exact quote, but it was something to the effect that when you get to the end of your life and you could change anything, you would probably go to less meetings and spend more time with your kids. [00:07:10] And she put a little carrot mark in there and put "and with your wife". It was things like that that just kind of made my day when I'd see those.
She is really the biggest reason, as you so well know, that our family is so close. She always said, "You're never any happier than your least happy child. So she made it her endeavor to make sure our children were always happy. And it was so true. If one of our kids was hurting, that would set the limit on how happy she was. She's been just a real blessing and definitely high, high on my list of important things or important people.
Then I guess thirdly would obviously be my children and grandchildren. I've learned a huge amount from them. I can give you some examples there if you'd like. With Drew, I remember one time we had gone on a family vacation and I had a bellboy who was just insistent on putting our luggage into our van. [00:08:15] I had a way that I liked to do it where it all fit right and it was how I wanted it.
And I told him, "I'll just get this" and he just insisted that he would do it. So he put it all in there. As he was turning around to leave, then I took it all out and restacked it the way I wanted it. Drew called me out on that and said, "You know, he's just trying to help bad." And it was true. It was a lesson for me.
I think too, when I think of relationships... and I guess I said earlier, some things have evolved. And I think that's one area. After Jesus and after Jeanne and after my family, I maybe would have gotten into the what's were most important. And I think you probably, more than you realize, helped me realize that relationships are what's important and it's other people and my interaction with them. So that's one thing that I learned from you.
I think of Natalie and I think of her sense of humor. She could find funny things in any situation in life. She just added a lot of spice to my life by sharing some of those funny things and doing funny things. In the summer we'd work together. She worked at one of the apartments we managed. I had a seat heater and she loved to be able to sneak over and turn that on in the summer when I wasn't looking and pretty soon I'd be roasting and she would think that was so funny. But she really had a great sense of humor. So I picked up so much from my kids. [00:09:54]
So those relationships, those order of importance have all stayed the same but what's changed is my emphasis switching from some of the what's that followed that to some of the who's that followed that.
I really saw a lot of family love modeled by both my father and my grandfather. Little things that were done or said and I picked up that I'm sure they didn't even realize somebody was observing, really showed me the importance of loving family and how to love your family.
Laura Dugger: I haven't heard you tell many stories about your grandfather, you know, some more about your dad, but when you think back on either one of those men in your life, what are some stories that come to mind?
Bill Leman: I just saw in him a willingness to put his family first. There were times when it was family or maybe something personally that he would enjoy, he would go with family. And it just always impressed me.
Laura Dugger: What would you say that you've intentionally shared with your children? [00:10:58]
Bill Leman: Well, I've tried to share with you, with my kids, those things that I found yielded me the most rewarding experiences in my life. When I had something that really resulted in a great experience, I wanted you to experience that as well.
There's a number of those. A love of Jesus and worship of God, keeping a positive outlook. You know, whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're right. Be willing to work hard. I read once that you can have reasons or results, and reasons don't count. So that comes from hard work and to be willing to just put your all into a problem.
To not focus on problems, but to focus on promises. It's always the glass half full or the glass half empty. We have so many promises in God's Word that we can rely on. We shouldn't have to focus on problems that we're having. [00:11:56]
One thing that was so important to me, and I really wanted to make sure my kids got the concept, was really the result of an experience I had, a kind of a light bulb moment for me in my life. It was soon after we got married and Jeanne worked at a doctor's office and they were taking a series of motivational classes at night. And she won an award one night for one of her talks.
The reward or the award was a book called The Richest Man in Babylon. I read that book and something in there just really, really struck me because it was something I had never thought about, and it made me not only think about it but change how I acted.
There were two men who were earning different amounts and the richest man in Babylon was talking with them and he asked them each how much they made and they told him they were different. And then he asked him how much they had saved. And that number was the same for both—it was zero. And what he taught them was you need to... he called it pay yourself first. What it meant was you need to save. You need to put some aside. [00:13:10]
That was just really a concept that I had never even given any thought. When we first got married, I'd been going to college for four years. We got married the week after I graduated. Those four years I was living on $2,000 to $3,000 a year. Now, all of a sudden, we get married, and I got my first job. It paid $11,750 a year. Jeanne was working in this doctor's office, she was making about $5,000.
And I remember thinking, "Where are we going to spend all this money? It didn't take long to find out that it didn't work that way." But at that point, we didn't have any kids. We were living in an apartment. I got paid once a month. We did have to do a little budgeting because of that. We'd set aside what we knew we were going to have to come up with for the next month and then we'd take off and go decide how to spend the rest. I remember we'd buy some furniture, or we'd buy a new grill, or just that was the project was, where does the rest of this money go?
Spending less than you earn or saving was just not something I'd ever thought about. I've been taught that concept, but it's different in really applying it. [00:14:29] That concept, more than any other one, I think changed my financial status in life because we started intentionally saving. There's other aspects of that as well, investing and those type of things, but really just getting started on spending less than we made. So I wanted to make sure my kids got that concept.
Laura Dugger: Do you remember any ways that you tried to make sure you would instill that in us?
Bill Leman: Well, I think we had you save some money, maybe from when you earned money or when we gave you an allowance. We always had you pull out a little bit of that for Sunday school and pull out a little bit for savings. Those were kind of ways that we wanted to teach that to you.
But I think more importantly than that, the whole concept of financial responsibility goes so far beyond just saving. When we took the Crown Financial Bible Study, Mom and I took it, and we really learned just a terrific amount of really good practical advice from that. [00:15:37]
Of course, you remember then we were able... I ended up teaching that class for you and a group of your friends, and Drew and Natalie. Really I think that was probably the primary way that we tried to pass that on, just the good lessons that were learned through Crown Financial Study.
I certainly always recommend that to anybody. It's a big part of anybody's life, and to be able to get on top of it, and you know... The thing that is the most rewarding to me is to see how my kids outperform me on some things. I've seen it with you and Mark, how you save and how you designate funds far beyond what I ever did.
We'd maybe talk about sticking different amounts in an envelope, but you actually set up bank accounts for each of your different expenses. Like I said, that gives me the greatest satisfaction of seeing that advice that we've given be put into practical use by our children. [00:16:43]
Laura Dugger: And I just want to encourage any parents that are listening, I think back, I remember as early as five years old, when I did get that allowance, I remember where I'd be sitting on the stairs. It was $3. And you did designate, this one we give back to God so you can put it in your Sunday school box, this one's to save and then the other one usually went toward candy for me.
But those principles that you taught early on you were able to build on it later. And I wasn't even a Christian when you taught Crown Financial but that is part of my story. That Bible study is what got me back in the word and started giving me a conscience again. It was a few months after that that I gave my life to the Lord. So I would second everything that you're saying. Start young and it's never too late.
Bill Leman: Yeah, that's great to hear. Then another big lesson for all of us was to try to be generous with what you've been blessed with. Again, it goes back to that Bible verse: freely received, freely give. [00:17:43] I think we in America, the poorest of us, have so much that we've been given, the freedoms that we enjoy, and just the blessings that we have in this land. We've been given a lot, and there's a responsibility then to freely give as well.
I think of another Bible verse is that you brought nothing into this world and it's certain you're going to take nothing out. So there's really no need to have any other attitude than that it's God's money and it needs to be spent how He wants it spent.
I remember a sermon once that I heard where the minister talked about a man who died and somebody asked, "How much did he leave?" The answer came back "He left it all". So we know that when this life's over, nothing that we have here will mean anything to us in terms of any material blessings that we have.
Laura Dugger: Going further on that topic, I know that I have already learned so much from my children. Was there anything that you learned from the three of us? [00:18:48]
Bill Leman: Oh, yeah. It's really pretty incredible, I would say, the amount that I've learned from my children. I've seen a full-life commitment from all of you towards reading God's Word and striving to live the teachings that it contains. Like I said, sometimes I see it far exceeding my own commitment.
Laura Dugger: And now a brief message from our sponsor.
Sponsor: This sponsorship message is unique because an anonymous donor to Midwest Food Bank paid the sponsorship fee in hopes of spreading awareness. Midwest Food Bank works to alleviate hunger and poverty throughout the world by gathering food donations and distributing them to nonprofit agencies and disaster sites.
Over $11.5 million worth of food is distributed to over 1,700 nonprofit organizations each month. In 2017 alone, over 132,000 family food boxes were distributed to disaster victims. Thanks to the generosity of donors, the valuable work of volunteers, and most importantly, the blessings of God, Midwest Food Bank shares the blessings worldwide. More than 3.6 million people were impacted last year. This is done from their eight United States and two international locations.
To learn more about Midwest Food Bank, to make a donation, or to see what volunteer opportunities are available, please visit them at MidwestFoodBank.org. [00:20:14]
How have you seen God's direction in your life?
Bill Leman: It seems like all my life I've seen God either open or close doors for me, and I'm happiest when I can just trust that that is the process that He's using to direct me. If there's a decision to be made and I'm peaceful about a certain way to go about it, I take that as God's affirmation.
When I think of probably the worst financial decision I've ever made in my life, I remember making that decision. And I remember, I think it was Mark Twain who said, when you get to the end of your life, you'll have more regrets about what you didn't do than what you did. And I thought that was great advice, and I actually kind of relied on that in making this decision to get involved actually with a brokerage company that didn't go well at all.
It really taught me that it's such a mistake to try to base decisions on man's wisdom and on how things should be how we think they should be, rather than going to God in prayer and just asking for His direction. [00:21:27] I heard a speaker once talk and say, Don't expect God to keep opening doors if you don't have the courage to go through. And I thought that's such great advice and it applied so much to my life when doors would open sometimes and it just looked like it was too big of a thing to do, I'd hesitate to go through. I think that's an important concept that as those doors open God does expect us to react to His direction and to do what he's leading us to do.
One thing that I've consistently noticed is that when I take a problem to God and ask for His help, the resulting answer is often much better than what I had ever imagined could happen. I've seen that in some big decisions. I can think of one where I bought out a business partner and it worked out. When I took it to God, it worked out in a way far better than I had ever expected it to or envisioned it happening.
And it works in small situations. Just this past winter, Mom and I were going to take a flight to Florida. We had a connecting flight at O'Hare, and we were leaving from Bloomington, and the Bloomington flight got fogged in, and we couldn't leave for three or four hours, which made us miss our connecting flight. [00:22:50]
So now all of a sudden, we're in Chicago, in a big snowstorm and every flight the rest of that day and the next two days was booked. There wasn't an open seat on any flight going to anywhere close to where we were going in Florida. So our first day up there we were on standby and we didn't make it onto that flight. So we had to stay in Chicago that night. We even thought about renting a car and just driving. It just looked so impossible for us to get there.
I remember just committing that to God, "Whatever happens here, let's just take it to be the way it's supposed to be happening." Well, the next morning at seven o'clock, when there was another flight and we went, we were on standby and there were two spots open. And Mom had a nice seat right up in the front. My seat, I love the aisle. I was on the aisle. I rarely pay the extra money to get the exit row, but I got the exit row. [00:23:51]
It's just such a good example of a small problem, but how God provides far beyond what we even hope for. I'd have been happy to stand on that plane the whole way down and back in the bathroom if I'd needed to get down there, but I was on a nice aisle seat in the exit row.
I don't actually hear it this audibly, but I hear still a voice in situations like that where God is just speaking to me and saying, How did I do? It happens in a way when I'm not even thinking about it and that thought comes to me. I think it's amazing how God provides.
Laura Dugger: That one chokes me up a bit. He's such a good God and such a good Father. I love that example. How would you say that you define success?
Bill Leman: Well, once again, my mentors have given me some guidance on that. I'm not very creative or original, but I can remember things that people teach me, I guess. [00:24:55] So I just remember [Gene Bertucci?], who is our church elder, repeated once a definition that he had heard of success. And it said, success is a progressive realization of a predetermined worthwhile goal. If it's a worthwhile goal and you thought about it and as you make progress towards that, that's success.
A couple of other thoughts that kind of relate to success that I've heard and have stuck with me. One was a comment "to have more, desire less". And another, the most blessed person in the world might very well be walking right in our midst, and really it could be you or me.
I think the concept here is that what are the true treasures that life has to offer? If we're getting those true treasures, how blessed we are. When you think in those terms and depending on how you define blessed, you might well be the most blessed person in the world. [00:25:54]
Laura Dugger: We're going to go a different route now. Will you share for everyone the journey of how you chose your occupation?
Bill Leman: Sure. This is really a great example of how I feel God has led me through many of the most important events in my life. When I started college, I thought I wanted to be a dentist. And I based that on a comment that my mother had made once and on the financial status of dentists that I knew. Neither one of those are very good reasons to choose a career.
So I started taking a lot of science courses, which were interesting, but I had no passion for it and no love for that topic. But I lived in an apartment with a couple of roommates, and the second semester my sophomore year, they were both majoring in business and accounting, and we would eat supper together. And they would often talk about their business law class that they were both taking together. And I found it to be just fascinating. I loved hearing about it. [00:27:00]
I took my dental admission tests, applied after my sophomore year to a dental school. It was kind of a long shot to be able to get in after two years. Most people get in after three or four. I went ahead and tried, but I got turned down. Then I decided, based on that experience that I'd had with my roommates, that I was going to switch my majors to accounting. In order to do that, I'm done with my sophomore year now, so I've got two years. And in order to fit in all the classes, I had to take a summer class, which I did, and was able to still get everything in four years in order to graduate with a degree in accounting.
So, then when I graduated from ISU, got married, and I started my first job with a public accounting firm, and I loved my fellow employees, we had a young firm. I think I was the seventh person in the firm and was working with one of the roommates. He and I had been great friends. And I loved the job. And I thought I was set, this is where I was supposed to be. [00:28:11]
Well, one of my biggest clients, was my biggest client, was a real estate developer and he ran into a problem. He had a controller who got sick and died very quickly. And we worked hard trying to get him set up with a new person to come in and be his financial person. And it just wasn't... we had a guy hired and didn't work out. I was getting concerned because again it was my large client and I was afraid things were going to be in a mess for us.
He started pushing me a little bit to take the job. I remember talking with Jeanne about it and it was a little further away from the office yet. Instead of a half-hour drive it was a 45-minute drive. I remember Jeanne saying, as long as I don't have to move, I don't care if you work here. So I went. [00:29:10]
I really thought when I went I'd probably be there about a year and get things kind of settled down and straightened out and then go back to the CPA firm. But you know, I found that I loved that work and I just really enjoyed real estate. God just had a total hand in getting me into a career that I've now spent 40 years in and just thoroughly enjoyed. There's not a day that I haven't looked forward to going to the office.
Laura Dugger: And now you even get to work with your brother and your son.
Bill Leman: You're right. That's just been a highlight of my life is being able to work with family like that. And back again to learning from your kids, I learned a lot from Drew just in our business.
Laura Dugger: I can't remember the stories, but I feel like some of your professors in school taught you some really neat things about business. Do you remember any things that stuck with you from professors? [00:30:08]
Bill Leman: Well, I remember Max Rexrode, Dr. Rexrode, was kind of the unofficial dean of the accounting school. He was the professor that we all just loved taking his classes. And I remember him one day writing up on the board, He said, when he graduated from college he drew a big circle and he drew a line up to the big city. And he says, everybody was saying, go to the big city. And he did. He went to Chicago and got in with one of the big eight, at that time it was eight big accounting firms.
He said, my advice to you is you find out where everybody's going, and he drew this arrow, and he says, "You go this way". And he drew it the opposite way. It's true. I mean, one thing when you're in a small business, I don't know, sometimes you tend to look at what you could have done maybe or what could have happened in a larger company, in a larger metropolitan area. [00:31:08]
I mean, there's struggles that we have in our area with real estate that you probably wouldn't have if you picked a bigger metropolitan area. But his advice was good advice, I thought.
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I have to say, to watch you develop your spiritual gift of generosity, Dad, I do believe it's something that's supernatural that was given to you. I've seen you exercise that giving muscle, and I've learned so much just watching you cultivate that gift. How do you give back as an attempt to show appreciation for what you've been given? [00:32:18]
Bill Leman: Well, once again, I would go back to the idea of just following through doors that God opens. When I get involved in an organization, it's somehow because God has opened that door and I've seen a need to help out. I don't feel that's a huge gift of mine. I think I look at others as giving much more than I do. Think of the widow, you know, who gave two mites, but gave everything she had. I can't say that I've ever done that.
But it's so nice to be able just to have a relationship with God where you can feel Him leading and those feelings of peace about decisions that are being made and through taking advantage of opportunities when the door opens up. I've been blessed to be on a lot of boards where I can use my accounting and business experiences.
But the most rewarding experiences are through the hands-on. I think of our trip to New York with the Midwest Food Bank. I love being on that board. It's very interesting and very rewarding. [00:33:34]
But my biggest satisfaction comes... as you know, we take several trips every year to New York, but we do one at Thanksgiving. We're actually giving food to people that are going to be using it. And hearing their stories and hearing their testimonies and hearing the testimonies of the churches or the organizations that they're coming through and how they're providing. There's just nothing like the hands-on part.
So being on the board is fun. I love working with people, and I love trying to set policy and strategy. But the ultimate is when you're actually getting to be the hands and feet of Jesus. One lady in particular, her husband became bipolar and left soon after their baby was born. She didn't have a job. She was evicted then out of her apartment. But she came and got food in that line. We didn't realize the full impact that that had had. [00:34:37] She talked about that turkey, you know, it didn't just feed Thanksgiving, but Christmas and well into the next year.
Those are stories that when you hear about their life experiences and see the challenges some people face, it can just be hugely rewarding to be in a part of helping them out.
Laura Dugger: Which was so neat to hear you and Mom share her story specifically because she was one that you met years ago. And after she had been a recipient of that blessing, one of the next years she was there and she was the hands and feet serving this turkey dinner to people who had been in a tough season around this Thanksgiving season.
Bill Leman: Yeah, and she got right in the semi with us when we pulled up to hand those turkeys out. And I don't think anybody was ever any more joyful than her.
Laura Dugger: Well, let's also talk about some of the problems that you've encountered and how you have dealt with them. [00:35:39]
Bill Leman: There's a few things that come to mind. The older I get, the more I encounter challenges that help me understand how Moses must have felt when God asked him to do something that he just didn't feel qualified to do. There's situations that I'm asked to help with that when I first look at it, I think, "I can't do this. I'm not qualified. This needs to be done by someone with a different skill set than I have." And yet that door is opened. It just makes me realize how totally dependent I am on God to provide solutions.
We manage some low-income housing apartments, and it's the most management-intense property that we have. It just takes constant involvement. There's always issues. There's always situations that we need to work through. It's just much more difficult. And we can see what happens when people have not been raised with God in their life. And you know that that's the solution. You know that that's really the only way they're going to break that cycle and come out of it. [00:36:52]
We might realize that, but in this case, the city that these were located in came down hard on us because they felt that we were responsible for the actions of these residents. Usually it wasn't a resident, it was somebody that was on the property illegally. I remember staying awake nights thinking, "How are we going to fix this? I don't know how to fix this."
It's a lifelong event to really try to present the gospel to people and to show them how to break through this cycle. And it's not something that one or two or three people can do. I just had that overwhelming feeling of, this is bigger than me. That's a good example of that feeling.
Another one, when I became involved with Midwest Food Bank, one of the things we needed was volunteer drivers, including on this trip to New York. So I went ahead and agreed to get my CDL. A lot of people laugh when they think of me driving a semi. [00:38:01] But when we get out in New York and on some of those streets and in some of those locations, I am lost when it comes to backing up a semi. It takes a lot of experience, and it takes me a long time to do it. There's times when I think, "I can't get this. I don't get it." I can go forward just fine but backing into some spots really gives us some challenges.
Another one, we're developing a new outreach program for our church, and I've been asked to be on that committee. And it takes some creativity and some things that I just don't feel like I have. And so those are problem areas that are challenges that I truly sometimes just really don't know how to handle, and I have to just rely on God to try to show the way on those.
Usually, my problems arise from actions I've taken that weren't in harmony with God's teachings, and those are a little easier to fix. You know what you need to do to make things right and to get things changed. [00:39:11] There's definitely some things that I've done and comments that I've made that I wish I could have the chance for a do-over. But we don't get that chance.
This verse in the Bible has always really been important to me. It's comforting, but it's also just great advice, because you're going to find yourself in a situation where you need to listen to this at some point. We all are. And that's when Paul says, This one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
So there's times when, you know, you mess up and you have to get over it. You just have to get beyond it and you have to quit thinking about it.
Laura Dugger: One other thing that comes to my mind for your life, especially as I've become an adult, I realized the heaviness that would come with something that you faced when you were only 38 years old. Can you take us back to that day? [00:40:12]
Bill Leman: Yeah. Actually, it was on a Wednesday night and I remember I was getting ready for church. I had a classmate who was a fireman came to our house and came and told me, "Bill, you better get down to the hospital. Your dad was in a bad accident." And I just remember I was driving down Germantown Hill, and the sun was just setting right as I was coming down that hill, and the words to the song Safe in the Arms of Jesus just overwhelmed me.
I really think that was the moment that he passed away. But went on to the hospital and of course, I mentioned before we had ten siblings and so everybody was coming in. Mom worked, she was a nurse and actually was working out of town about a half hour the other way from Peoria. So she had about an hour drive. And I remember I had to call her and tell her about it. [00:41:12]
When you see somebody's life come to an abrupt end like that, it just reemphasizes again the importance of our actions in this life. And my dad loved Jesus, and there's no doubt in my mind that he's in heaven. I look forward to seeing him again.
Laura Dugger: I think as I've become a parent, just realizing, wow, when you were only 38 years old, when you're facing some of these other difficulties and challenges, a lot of us would still turn to one of our parents and be able to ask their advice. And I remember asking you, maybe 15 years after the accident, just, Dad, how often do you think about your dad? And you said, "Oh, every day."
Bill Leman: For a long time, it was just hard to get used to the idea that he wasn't there. I mean, you just expected to see him. And this was with a father, which is a close relationship. But I can't imagine how that is for somebody who loses a spouse at a young age or loses children. It must be just incredibly overwhelming to expect to see them and then have to have that realization again, oh yeah, they're gone. [00:42:38]
So, in every situation in life, there's people that have it worse and people that have it better. That's something always to keep in mind too, that there's always somebody that's got a lot tougher situation than what you're having to experience.
Laura Dugger: That's a good attitude to have. And I remember mom always saying, it doesn't matter what age you are when you lose a parent. And I think this would apply when you lose a loved one. It's difficult no matter how old you are when that happens. But it seems like not being able to go to your earthly father for these quick questions, you've really relied on your Heavenly Father. And then the exciting hope is that you know you're going to heaven because of what Jesus already did, and you accepted that. And so you get to be reunited someday.
Bill Leman: I remember my sister, Mary Beth, made that comment once soon after Dad passed away, that she was lamenting that she didn't have a father. She just felt that God spoke to her and said, I'm your father. [00:43:44]
Laura Dugger: So maybe somebody listening today, I hope that's an encouraging word. But because you and I love optimism, let's shift back to a more positive topic. What are the highlights about your life experiences?
Bill Leman: The most joyous experience has been from Jeanne and I being part of our children and grandchildren growing up and just getting to see that and getting to observe and just the joy that comes from grandkids as they make new experiences, and as they achieve new things, it's just a joy to have family.
I sometimes think about what have been the 10 best days of my life, and it's kind of an interesting exercise if you try to think about that sometime. If you have to put together the 10 best days of your life, what would they be? And I've thought about that in a number of them.
The day I was baptized would definitely be one of the top ten. Our wedding day. The day that each of my children, you and Natalie, and Drew, were each born, are days that I'll never forget. I'll always remember those days. [00:45:00] Other events that relate to personal achievements or events, or our family's achievements or events, I won't get into all those, but there are some real highlights there, too. But we also need to remember the small victories.
I sometimes jokingly refer to an experience in college as one of the 10 best days of my life. I mentioned what I lived on back then wasn't much and never had any money in my pocket, it didn't seem like. I would come home sometimes on the weekend, we lived 30 miles away from ISU, and on Sunday nights then I'd go back, and sometimes it was great fun because we were going to get together with friends back at school. And there were other times when pretty much nothing was going on and you knew you were heading back to an empty apartment on a Sunday night.
But I remember one time I was going back and I was kind of hungry. And as I pulled into Normal, I thought, I'm going to stop at this convenience store and get a couple of donuts. So I walked in, I had two quarters and two pennies in my pocket, and I looked at the prices and I saw the donuts are a quarter. [00:46:15] Illinois at that time had a 5% sales tax, so I knew that on 50 cents there'd be a 3-cent tax, so I was a penny short.
So I thought I'd just kind of try to charm my way into getting two donuts for 52 cents. I asked the gal behind the counter, I said, "I'd like to get two donuts, but I think it'll be 53 cents and I've only got 52 cents. I was pretty sure she was gonna say, "Oh, don't worry about that penny." But she didn't. She said, "Well, I guess you can only get one then." I thought, "Mm, okay, well, I guess that's that."
So I went ahead and said, "Okay, give me one," and she rang it up and the tax came out to one penny, and she said, "That'll be 26 cents." And right then it dawned on me, "Hey, I can get another one." So I told her, now I'll take another one. And she wasn't real friendly about it. She kind of grabbed the sack back and stuck the other donut in there. But that to me was one of life's little victories. [00:47:20] It's just fun to experience those. You have to cherish those and have to just appreciate those little victories in life is what I call those.
I think another great example that I'd like to mention and that's Jeanne's grandma kept a diary. And this, to me, again, just shows how the little things in life they can be one of your 10 best days. This was probably... oh, it was over 60 years ago. She lived on a farm soon after they got married, I believe, and they had just finished harvest. And that day, I don't know, they didn't have the combines. I think a lot of it was still done by hand.
She wrote in her diary, "We finished harvest today," It was late November, "and it's a beautiful sunny day with blue sky. It's a grand and glorious day." And I thought, "Mom and I have often said, this is just a grand and glorious day." [00:48:21] So sometimes just the little days and the little wins can mean so much.
Laura Dugger: And you've done a great job of always reminding us to celebrate those. I remember it was in my final year of grad school, there was one big exam at the end, But after that exam, there were still a few weeks of school left and some finals that came as well. And you called me after I took that exam and said, "All right, what are you doing with the rest of your Friday?" And I said, "Well, I'm going to go to the coffee shop and study for all my other ones." And you said, "No, no, no. You're going to call a couple of your friends and you're going to take them out for dinner." So I got to go out with a few friends that night and we celebrated. That's really been something that always stuck with me.
Bill Leman: If you look for things to be happy about, they're out there.
Laura Dugger: What advice would you give to me as your daughter and all of our listeners out there about the life ahead of us? [00:49:22]
Bill Leman: Well, if I was going to give us just some practical advice, I'd put it in maybe four or five bullet points here. Trust God. Expect the best. Keep plotting. Sometimes you have to just remember to keep putting one foot in front of the other. Finish strong. Stop and smell the roses. Keep an eternal perspective and remember that true joy and fulfillment comes from people, not things. That one I think I learned from you actually. I would give you credit for that relationship comment that true joy and fulfillment comes from people, not things.
You had more friends than I think anybody I've ever known. And you made it a point to be involved in their lives. I just think that's a great attribute that you have and I've added it onto my list of things that I'd recommend.
Laura Dugger: Well, thank you, Dad. Well, everybody knows that we're called The Savvy Sauce because "savvy" means practical knowledge. And we would love to hear some insight from your life to inspire us with our own action item. So as the final question today, Dad, what is your savvy sauce? [00:50:37]
Bill Leman: I would say, as we talked about, sometimes you get situations where they're bigger than you and they can be overwhelming a little bit. When you find yourself in that situation, mentally go to the cross of Jesus with that problem and lay it down and say, you know what, this is too big for me. I'm just going to give this to you and walk away from it. As you get reminded of it again and again, just remember, you know what, I gave that one to Jesus.
Laura Dugger: I can't think of a better way to end. I'm so grateful that you took the time to meet with me today, Dad. It's something that I've always appreciated about you. You are available. As a little girl, you were available to teach me how to play basketball and to read scripture at our family dinners. And now as an adult, you continue to be available as my friend, my mentor, and a leader I respect and admire. I love you, Dad.
Bill Leman: I love you, Laura. [00:51:45]
Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.
This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.
This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. [00:52:51]
We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him.
At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started? [00:53:53]
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John.
Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
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