David discusses the conflict between lesbians and those male-born transgender activists who assert their right to be a woman just by saying so, and who want to be classed as lesbians despite their male genitalia. Amy asserts the right of lesbian to restrict their sexual attraction to people without penises, if that is what they feel, without being accused of transphobia. Whereas the non-violent objections of lesbians (and other categories often include in the insult ‘TERF’ - Trans-Exclusive Radical Feminist) are often described as violence, the violent rhetoric, art and sometimes actions of transgender activists and their allies, are excused as a legitimate response to transphobia.