Best Of BiblioTech: Ep. 1 - Brianne Farley

It was Podcast moving day last week and the EdTechLoop Pod is happy to now be hosted by Podbean! However all the archived shows did not make it through the move so over the next few weeks before the school year begins I plan to post some of our most popular past episodes starting with the very first BiblioTech podcast featuring local writer and illustrator Brianne Farley. Please excuse the poor audio quality, we hadn’t dialed the studio or editing in yet but the interview is too good to not have on the feed. And as always, thanks for listening and inspiring.

Please forgive the first attempt to transcribe the podcast. As always, we will strive to improve.

0:00 - Stephie

This is Brianne Farley, and she is an author and illustrator, and a local Traverse City Area Public Schools, alumni, we're gonna chat today.

 

0:37 - Stephie

What’s your background, your educational background and career, what your career path has been. And if you want to look, you know, in when I say educational background. Back in elementary school, the experiences you had an elementary school how those have carried along with you and how you ended up in the career that you're in. Okay.

 

1:02 - Brianne 

All right. Well, I started. Well when I moved up here to Traverse City when I was seven, and I started Old Mission, and we live actually right, my parents live right behind Old Mission.

 

Yeah okay and that's like the world's best playground. I think when I did when I first did a visit at Old Mission with my book that's like, all I talked to the kids about was, I was like, tell me about your playground. Is it the coolest is the pond still haunted. and they're like, No, and I was like, It’s still haunted.

 

1:37 - Brianne

And so I went to Old Mission and then, and then I went to the talented and gifted program at Central. And then, yeah and I went to East, Central High School, and 

 

Stephie

When did you graduate?

 

Brianne

I graduated in ‘02. Yeah, I was the first class after the split. Okay, yeah. 

 

Stephie

So one year after split. 

 

Brianne

yeah yeah one year to split, and.

 

2:06 - Brianne 

And then I went to McAllister college actually on the recommendation of my principal, Mr. Townsend, 

 

Stephie

Mr Townsend Yeah, yeah, 

 

Brianne

Funny enough, he’s been my principal since elementary school. Interesting. He kept moving up as I graduated and so yeah he’s been my principal forever and then you say, also go to college here. 

 

Stephie

And then he and he promoted your book for you.

 

2:35 - Brianne 

Yeah. Yeah, he's my publicist.

 

2:40 - Stephie

he's a great person 

 

Brianne

he is great. He's so great. Um, and then after McAllister, I 

 

Stephie

What was your focus there. 

 

Brianne

Oh I went there for English. I like knew that I wanted to be an editor. And so I went for English and I really loved, art, but I thought that for some reason I had this idea that if I made art my career I would hate it, like, like you said, like the pressure of having to make something that makes me not like it anymore. So I really loved reading I loved books as a total bookworm growing up and, and so I knew I wanted to be an editor and then I went off to New York after a year of college, and did an editorial internship and totally hated it. Yeah. I really hated it. And 

 

Stephie

What do you think it was. Did you find it too technical or too, was it, work was mundane?

 

Brianne

I was at a very small publishing house. And so I think that having a little bit of a different view of what editing was then what I saw at this house and which actually is probably not very accurate it's like how other houses edit but, um, yeah it was like it was a little too mundane it was I thought that I was going to be like in the trenches with the writers like helping them like what if you used this other word here and, and that's not what it was at this house.

 

4:13 - Stephie

Did you have much contact with authors. 

 

Brianne

No, no, no. Yeah, it ended up being this very I mean it was like an internship, they were like yeah like organize our computer. Like, this is what editing is. So then, I, I was an art minor and then I went down to Chicago and was working at the Art Institute there and was an administrative assistant. 

 

Stephie

Okay, did you like that. 

 

Brianne

I really did yeah, that was a great job. The best part about it was that you could take classes for free at the School of the Art Institute. Yeah, so I started taking more classes and then I did a residency and, and then, was like why am I doing this is I should really, realy make that happen so I applied for grad school and went to SCAD for illustration and SCAD is the Savannah College of Art and Design.

 

Stephie

Georgia?

 

Brianne

Georgia. Yeah. 

 

Stephie

And your focus was the illustration, and had that been your interest? Would you say, Did you find that and trust when you're in Chicago?

 

Brianne

No I, well, a little bit I had grown up loving Roald Dahl and Quinten Blake, and I'd actually went to his at TAG we had to write a speech every year about when I grow up, do they still do that? they should still do that because it tells you what you want to be when you grow up. ‘Cause that’s what I wrote my speech about. I was like, I want to be Roald Dahl and Quentin Blake. Although I guess the year before I said I wanted to be Benjamin Franklin and that didn't pan out.

 

Stephie

There’s still time

 

6:01 - Brianne

to be a founding father. It could still happen.

 

6:06 - Brianne

Yeah, so I said that that's what I wanted to do so. I think that that kind of stuck with me.

 

Stephie

As an illustrator, do you focus in a certain medium, or you explain that, like, what, what would an illustrator, what would that look like, like what classes did you take? What kind of a focus in your art education, did you have? 

Brianne

Well, um, I think I lucked out, knowing that I was interested in children's books going into it. Because I was able to kind of tailor my graduate experience toward children's books, and actually my first book was a homework assignment in grad school, I took a class called directed projects which is basically, it's like a directed free-for-all, like, you pick a project that you want to do over the course of the whole semester. And, and it has to be a series of some sort of some people that like branding, like they've made up a brewery and branding, like you know made several different kinds of beer labels or something and, and I picked a kids book and... 

 

Stephie

And did that become Ike? 

 

Brianne

Yeah that became “Ike’s Incredible Ink.” Yeah, do your homework kids.

 

7:30 - Stephie

So, that was what year of school. How long have you been in? 

 

Brianne

That, it's a two year program and that was the first quarter of my second year there. 

 

Stephie

So, from that homework assignment, how did they get from there to the published book? 

 

Brianne

Gosh, like a combination of super hard work and crazy good luck. Like anything in life. I kind of hit the ground running with this project and got...I was able to finish the entire book in the whole in 10 weeks. And you were only supposed to do three interior spreads and a cover, and I was, I don't know crazy person was like I'll do all of it and, so, which ended up being great, because I had; so Peter Brown, who's a author, Illustrator, he was coming to SKAD to give a presentation, and at the same time I knew that my friend Ryan who I was in grad school with had a friend Pete who was coming to town, I didn't realize that these are the same person. And so I was sitting in the grad studio at SKAD doing my work working on Ike, and Pete and Ryan came in we were hanging out and talking and then my professor walked in and he was like, oh, Brianne I see you’ve met Peter Brown. He's like, you should have them look at your book, and I was like, Oh, (laughing) okay. And so he took a look at it and send it to his agent and the agent liked it and now here we are. And now Peter’s one of my closest friends so that worked out to, socially.

 

9:21 - Stephie

Okay, so what were some of the steps like so then agents said, I really like this. Then what?

 

Brianne

Well, that's the trick with kids books is that you. It's very rare that you get your book published without an agent. Without an agent your manuscript goes into the slush pile they call it which is like about as organized as it sounds, but with an agent, you have all these doors open where the agent is kind of the first gatekeeper and they kind of carry a stable of people that whose work they like. And then they will go into the publishing companies and either in person or by email kind of promote your work and say like this is something that we're working on. We think that it would be a good match for you so they'll kind of try to pair you up with a, with an editor. And then the editor is usually the one that does the acquiring till they find a manuscript that they like that can either. If you're an author illustrator they'll have some sample drawings with the manuscripts and this year, just an author, it won't have any illustrations with it.

 

10:28 - Stephie

So from the time that it went to an agent and was selected, how long does it take typically or did it take for your book for your first book?

 

Brianne

Um, for my first book. It took about a year from, my agent is Paul Rodine, and it took about a year from when Paul picked it up to when Candlewick said hooray, we want your book. But it can go much faster than that. I don't, I don't know how long it takes us first books but yeah that's what happened with mine.

 

Stephie

And then it was published how soon after that?

 

11:09 - Brianne

Um, let's see well that was another funny one because that I had, you know, finished a book basically and then had to kind of go back to square one with their suggestions and revisions. But I think the whole process took maybe another, not quite another year altogether and then it takes another year to actually get public, come out into bookstores. So, like I finished this book “Secret Tree Fort” in April. Last April, and it comes out this coming April. Yeah.

 

11:50 - Stephie

And I can't wait to talk about that.

 

11:53 - Brianne

For Ike, having it published. So tell us about what it's like, it's in bookstores. Did you do a book tour? Did you get to talk with kids, I get to talk with kids. I didn't do a book tour that the publishing company sent me on or anything, I would, kind of, I'm going to get caught by the IRS telling you this but like, if I ever wanted to go on a trip I would call up a bookstore and be like, Hello, and just start writing off this trip.

 

But yeah, it was great, bookstores are really happy to have you because you're free and you help sell their books and you're kind of like an hour long babysitter. And then schools are great too I am, I was able to do a bunch of school visits with TCAPS last spring, yeah, it was. 

 

Stephie

The weather was a little iffy, yeah.

 

12:52 - Brianne

Yeah, somewhere in there 

 

Stephie

It could have been arranged in November.

 

Brianne

Could be anytime.

 

12:59 - Brianne

But, yeah, it's wonderful , the kids provide a lot of good feedback and you get to see like what they respond to and what they're interested in.

 

13:10 - Stephie

Do you have any like best quotes from kids a lot along the way about your book or funny questions?

 

13:20 - Brianne

When I first started, hats off to the  teachers, I like knew nothing about crowd control and like what questions you could ask kids and whatnot, like, like you can't just be like, How are you, because they'll be like, “I'm going to a birthday party and there's a swimming pool and…”

 

And that was actually my very first reading as a kid raised his hand and said, “I'm going to a birthday party.”

 

Anyway, let me see, at the end of the presentations I draw a rocket with the kids and I like to tell them that they can that I'm going to draw Ike inside of the rocket but that they can draw whoever they want and I had a little kid, tell me that they're putting their grandma in the rocket to the moon, like I'm going to send my grandmother to the moon.

 

14:08 - Stephie

What happened with that. 

 

Brianne

Yeah, so they yeah this is some pretty some pretty great stuff. I've also been really blown away with the other end of things, kids being like, so how do I get an agent? What's the difference between self publishing a published book? Who are you? 

 

Stephie

Like a little kid. I mean some of those. 

 

Brianne

Some of those questions came from like fifth graders but I was really impressed that they even...

 

14:38 - Stephie

When you're young, did you write for fun and to illustrate books for fun? 

 

Brianne

Yeah, yeah. I actually, when I was in third grade. Our Old Mission did a program where you could write a book and the library would bind it and have like put a bar code on it and have it in the library and anybody could check it out. So that was really inspiring I got to do that. 

 

Stephie

Do remember what you wrote for that book? 

 

Brianne

Yeah, it was a book called, Trees are Homes, and I distinctly remember making the cover first and then kind, of just plowing my way through the rest of the book and the book kind of like taking a turn somewhere and then like not really being about that by the end.

 

Stephie

But cover was set.

 

Brianne

Trees are Homes, and it was like animals live in trees, so you should recycle, recycling's good, boy do I like paper, it just kinda like wandered.

 

15:37 - Stephie

Do you remember checking out friends books and like having friends check out your book. Do you remember having like... 

 

Brianne

I do remember. I do remember going into the library and checking to see if anyone had checked out my book. Yeah, it's like the first version of like social media, any likes?

 

15:58 - Stephie

Well, that must be an amazing experience, now to see, Ike, and to see, Secret Tree Fort. 

 

Brianne

Yeah, it's crazy like it when, when Ike first came out, I was on a road trip and stopped at this Barnes and Noble in the middle of nowhere and found it. Yeah, and one of my good friends lives in Anchorage, and she sent me a photo of like in her local library, and I was like, “oh, thanks for donating that book to your library,” and she was like, “it was just here.”

 

16:31 - Stephie

So “Secret Tree Fort,” comes out in April. Can you tell us a little bit about it? 

 

Brianne

Sure, it's about, about two sisters and older sister just wants to read and the younger sister wants to the older sister to play with her. 

 

Stephie

Does this have any connection to your own life? 

 

Brianne

Oh yeah, it's incredibly biographical. This is me never wanting to put down a book. And this is my younger sister, little toe head, her being very energetic and wanting to play and we actually we did play together as kids, and when we did play a lot of what we did was plan tree forts, or tree houses we would have drawings of like okay on the third floor will have the observation deck and then the slide will lead to the pool. And we'd be like dad. Let's do this.

 

17:27 - Stephie

Did you have a tree fort? 

 

Brianne

We did, we did, it was a, it was a box in a tree but it did have a zip line. Yeah that's all you need.

 

17:37 - Stephie

You just need a little, little bit of wood in a tree in your house. Yeah. Yeah. So illustration wise, did you use a similar sort of process when you were working on this book?

 

Brianne

No, not at all. I did a lot of print-making at McAllister this great printmaking professor, and I somehow I didn't even know that print-making existed before I got there. And she kind of opened up this whole world they really fell in love with it and so I guess I think a lot of my work is informed by printmaking but maybe by different processes. So, the first book is about a blob of ink who can somehow get up and walk. And so it's about ink and paper and craft and like making things with their hands so I wanted it to be made with ink and paper so it's it's ink line work and collaged paper that's actually collaged digitally. And then this is also kind of made digitally, I drew the book with charcoal and pencil and different layers. Okay, different pieces of paper so like the outline will be a piece of paper and then like the texture will be on another piece of paper and then I scan it all into the computer and color it digitally, which is a total headache. I don't know why I work like that but…

Stephie

What made you choose to do it that way does it give you more options. 

 

19:11 - Brianne

Yeah, I think I really love getting the color right and the texture right is really important to me and I like it when the color and the format of the book kind of helps you tell the story. So, in this book, the younger sister is telling her older sister about this tree forth that she has that, you know, as she talks you kind of see the tree fruit in the background like growing floors and slides and the whale observation area. And, and I wanted to kind of, kind of interacting with an imaginary environment and I wanted there to be some visual cue that was like, “This isn't real.” “And this is real.” And so I made this real for myself that everything that was real would be very muted, and everything was imaginary you can be these technicolors, and the computer let you kind of set that up and play with it.

 

20:12 - Stephie

Did you enjoy that process? So, you know, very different from Ike. Did you enjoy doing it that way and was it a lesson to be learned would you do it that way again.

 

20:27 - Brianne

I don't know, actually, it’s funny that you ask. I had a publisher contact me and asked me to submit a sample of work and I like can you make it just like how you made “Secret Tree Fort,” and I was like, ugh. Okay, maybe if I was a better artist I wouldn't need to do it that way but it's like, I need to fuss with it forever to be like, oh no I made this tree dark so then this tree has to be light so then this part has to be more colorful but I don't know if I do it again. It's definitely really fun to work like that it's kind of like how you build a screen print. Yeah, I like that. I love the look of it. Yeah, and I love the control but, boy is it time consuming.

 

21:20 - Stephie

What I’ve seen of it, it’s beautiful. So when this book comes out will it be the same thing when you visit schools again, and maybe get a few bookstores at some exotic locations?

 

21:31 - Brianne

Hopefully, yeah. Yeah, I love doing school visits it's really, really fun. Yeah, I love doing the school visits, it's kind of like the opposite of sitting alone and drawing. Standing up in front of an auditorium of eight year olds.

 

21:54 - Stephie

When you mentioned that, that being alone and working, I know that you've been involved with A26. And can you tell us a little bit about, first what that is and what you've done. 

 

Brianne

Sure. A26 is an amazing organization and I know that you said that Front Street Writers is kind of a little bit near it. A26 was started by the writer Dave Eggers and legend has it that he wanted to start a tutoring program in San Francisco and bought a commercial space, and then was told that, because it was a commercial space and zoned commercially it had to sell something and it couldn't just be a tutoring center and so he was like great we sell pirate supplies. And so the front of the store sold pirate supplies in the back of the store…

 

Stephie

I love that it happened that way.

 

22:50 - Brianne

Yeah, so then they were really surprised to find out the pirate supply section of the store kind of helped the kids, like it made it this like, very special space and it also helped take away the stigma like meeting after school homework assistance or like taking an extra writing class just for fun. I'm a big dork, that’s something I would do. And so, it helped with that and then also it was bringing in people from the neighborhood to be like, what is this place? And that led to people volunteering just because they like walked in to see what the Pirate Store was about. And then the revenue from selling like a tub of lard pays the rent on the stores. Yeah, so now it's nationwide and all of the stores had like a front and then there's a secret tutoring center in the background. So I think they want in Michigan, haven't been a robot repair shop. 

 

Stephie

Yeah, yeah, Seattle is time travelers. I think there's a Bigfoot one. What’s New York?. 

 

Brianne

It’s the superhero supply store. I first got involved with the one in Chicago, which is the spy supply store. 

 

Stephie

Yeah, I just love to go in one.

 

Brianne

Yeah, yeah, it's the one in Chicago so funny that it has the sign out in front, that's like, nothing to see here, nobody needs to come in, you don't need anything. And for a while I had to change it because it was like two effective people are like, Oh, yeah.

 

24:18 - Stephie

And so did you do workshops there? 

 

Brianne

Yeah, yeah, I did a comic book writing workshop and autobiographical comic book ratings that was great. And also the one. Oh, we did block printing with character descriptions so I had the kids make black print of face, and they wrote a character description of it and then they all traded prints and then wrote a description of that someone else's portrait. It's really fun activity Yeah.

 

Stephie

So thinking about working with kids and, have you thought about, like, doing something more like that doing more workshops with kids is that an area that you might pursue? 

 

Brianne

Yeah, yeah, hopefully. That's the great part about living here now is I have all this extra time I was, I was working. When I first moved to New York I was working for random houses, uh, well first as an administrative assistant and then there's a book designer. And then I left to do more illustration but came as rehired as a freelance designer so I was working there part time. And then, and now that I live here, I can have a little bit more time on my hands, because I’m not working at Random House.

 

Stephie

So right now are you do your projects in the pipeline that are working on?

 

Brianne

I do. I don't know what am I allowed to share. I'm working on getting my promotional plan ready for it Secret Tree Fort. You start kind of amping that up about three months out but you have to know what you're going to do before the three months are here. And, and then I signed up to do it I can tell you about this. I signed up to do a book called “Charlotte the Scientist is Squished,” and that's my first book that I’m just illustrating in not writing on hey yeah. 

 

Stephie

So where is that in the process?

 

Brianne

That is signed up...

 

Stephie

Sorry to interrupt you. How did you get connected to that book? Did the author see your work? 

 

Brianne

No, that's, um, gosh that's another book was like, yeah, and like, usually it happens this way but I don't, that’s not how it happened for me, usually an author submits their manuscript to a publishing company and then the editor buys the manuscript, and then the editor and the art director work together to find an illustrator. But in this case, my agent represents the author and, and I had told my agent that I wanted, I was like I'd really like to try illustrating somebody else's manuscript. And I said, we've got this manuscript do you want to illustrate it and we'll send it out to publishers that way and I like there's no guarantee, they like they might drop your illustrations, like, whatever. Yeah yeah so that's how I got connected.

 

27:29 - Stephie

So, and that book will be coming out like I said a couple years away. 

Brianne

That'll be coming out in spring ‘17. 

 

Stephie

Okay, I’m excited to see it.

 

27:42 - Brianne

Yeah, me too. It's on the manuscript is being edited right now and is with the author. And as soon as they finalize the manuscript then I get a hold of it.

 

27:55 - Stephie

Will you be working on that here? will you be back in New York? Or can you work anywhere?

 

Brianne

Oh gosh, I don't know. Yeah, I can work anywhere. That's great anywhere that has Wi Fi and a flat surface. 

 

28:11 - Stephie

Besides, what you've done in the book form,where else has your art appeared, what other format? Tell us about, tell us about your art, separate from books? 

 

Brianne

Um, well, I did a couple publications with, I did a drawing for McSweeney's, and for the New York Times, did one for them. So I've done a couple editorial pieces here and there, but I found that editorial is like, kind of this constant, you need to keep reminding our directors that you're around, and I just I love doing children's book so much that I'd rather spend my time doing that. 

 

Stephie

That's really your passion. 

 

Brianne

It is it's so great, it's like it's like don't tell any other illustrators but it's like you get to, basically, you're like free rein you have like 32 pages to just go nuts, and with editorial it's really really fast turnaround and people make beautiful stuff. I really have a deep admiration for editorial illustrators but and I don't work that way very well.

 

Stephie

But it's gonna work, what you enjoy. 

 

Brianne

Yeah. Yeah. can anybody see your art around town?

 

29:25 - Brianne

Oh, the Little Fleet. Yeah. That was the best job. Yeah, I did the mural at Little Fleet.

 

29:35 - Stephie

Tell us about that process?

 

Brianne

You introduced me to Allison. And Allison was so great. She actually, it was so funny because they had just moved here from Brooklyn, and I was living in Brooklyn, at the time, and she was like, oh yeah, she sent me a couple images of what she was interested in and she was like we want these free hand kind of line drawings on our wall, and I started sending her sketches and she's like, can you know, can you just come in and like, do crazy stuff all over the wall. It's like, Oh yeah, totally. 

 

Stephie

And you did it. Tell us about like the actual process where people there? 

 

Brianne

Oh yeah, they... I started at 11 in the morning so I got all set up before anybody came in, and then I just worked the whole day. And it was, yeah, there are people there and watching and luckily I was up on a ladder, with my back to everybody. I wasn’t too aware of anyone watching. That's pretty good. Yeah, and you're adorable daughter was there,

 

Stephie

She does love knowing there's.

 

30:47 - Briane

It's their balloon.

 

30:50 - Stephie

Did you? It has it looked like watching it that that you had planned out where things would go because everything fits so nicely, like how much pre-planning... 

 

Brianne

Smoke and mirrors. 

 

Stephie

Definitely. It looks that way. But can you just like did you look at this face and you're able to just, I mean how much of that was planned ahead in your mind and how much of it, and I mean I like out of  the blue here.

Brianne

They told me that they wanted some like goofy characters and I've actually painted my bathroom in New York with chalkboard paint and had been actually like the week that she contacted me had filled my bathroom wall with these like crazy characters, and I sent her a photo of it and she was like, yeah, that's what we want. That works out well. So I had a kind of a eight and a half by 11 piece of paper with just some doodles on it and like character ideas, but all the layout was done on the fly. It was fun, it was exhausting. I think the only thing I knew going into it was that I wanted to have all of the characters marching in one direction because I wanted them to be like a fleet. Yeah, and I wanted to put that there's a cherry with a face in it that I knew that I wanted to up there, but...

 

Stephie

You obviously such an eye and experience. Was it nerve racking to do in front of people? And maybe we're looking back to people but have you ever painted like in a public setting? 

 

Brianne

No, no. You know, I think I would have been, you know, if someone had come up to me and said, will you draw my portrait that would have terrified me but the fact that she was like, draw these crazy characters that you love drawing. I think that made it fine. 

 

Stephie 

Did you go back and change anything, or was it just as is.

 

32:56 - Brianne

No, Yeah, I think one girl I kind of made for myself was that I would get off the ladder as often as possible so that I could step back and look at it from a distance. I think that really helped. But for the most part if I, I kind of saw how things were fitting together as I was moving from left to right. But yeah, I think I did have a little freak out in the beginning, so I wasn't really sure about the paint. The paint was like going on the wall and was really weird way like I felt slimy and I was like this is terrible, like, no one told me that painting on a wall it feels different than drawing with the marker.

 

33:41 - Stephie

So that was your first time painting, something like that, of that scale?

 

33:46 - Brianne

Yeah, but now I love it funny. Yeah, I would love to do it again.

 

34:03 - Stephie

Okay. So switching gears a little bit. I'd love to talk about books and libraries, in particular. I mean we touched a little bit on the book project that you did at Old Mission but what are some of the things you remember now that you're, you know, in your career and following your passion for what you're doing and looking back at you know school libraries, public libraries and books in general I know you're a big reader and always were. What are some of the experiences you remember, and in what ways do you think school libraries and libraries in particular impacted you? Or some of your memories? 

 

Brianne

Good question. I guess, I have really fond memories of my librarians feet, you know, she would kind of sit on like a big armchair and everyone would kind of like crowd around. I just, I remember I loved that, like intimacy of like being read to. Really wanting to know what happened next, like, I remember the librarian at Central reading us “The Giver” and just being like, oh, when I found out that it was color that had been missing I was like, “What!” stop everything. Being read to it's just so special and it really brings the books to life, and, and I found I was really surprised when I visited schools that told me that I was going to be presenting to first graders as well as fifth graders. It's like I hope this presentation works for all ages. And I was really surprised by how engaged the fifth graders were that they still love being read to and enjoy picture books and just get something totally different out of it. 

 

Stephie

Absolutely, yeah. picture books are, they hit  kids at all different levels. And some of them are really, and, and maybe not in particular yours but some are geared, really there's middle school kids and some projects that there are picture books that are at that level, I mean in the details well as, What's the subject and it's quite mature. It's always thought of as her very young children. The format is really not necessarily that way.

 

Brianne

You know I really think that's a mistake, actually I find myself when I talk about books trying not to say, kids books. I tried to say picture books cuz i mean i think that a lot of them are for audiences of all ages and that, and that booksellers are making a mistake kind of pigeon holing what age range, they can present to.Have you ever seen this book? Death, Duck, and the Tulip by Wolf Elbrooke? I think it's his name. He's a German guy. European kids books, they're like crazy like boobs, and there's all kinds of stuff in there. They’re a little bit edgier. It’s about a duck that meets death, and they kind of hang out together and then at the end of the book the duck dies, and that’s whole book and it's like really beautiful and, and just kind of like, this is what happens. Sometimes things die. And so it's like, I think it would be good. And it really struck me, you know, a certain age. Yeah, that was really really powerful, yeah. A good thing for kids of all ages.

 

Stephie

I don't think that kids stop needing to be or stuff enjoying to be read to. It's not, it doesn't end in fifth grade. Middle School, even when even High School, and the adults. Yeah, being read to is something that's pretty universal. 

 

Brianne

Yeah, it's very soothing to be read to even as an adult, it's nice to have someone just read something out loud. And, and I think that you get you get access to, you know, like words that you might not normally hear read out loud, like you're like, Oh, it's not hors d'oeuvres? Yeah, I think, I think it's really important and I think, yeah, I think that there's I actually I find myself having a little bit of a hard time talking about like, like what my favorite picture books are because I'm like there’s the books that I love as a kid. And then there's the books that I love now, and I don't have, I don't have kids and so like I don't really know what it is that kids respond to and Charlotte who I work with at Smith and Jones studios she brought in this whole stack, she, she labeled them a post it notes and she's like these are good books. These are terrible books.

 

39:10 - Stephie

Like, what made those terrible? Was it content, they were boring was it…?

 

Brianne

Yeah, I mean, I think some of it was. I mean picture books I such a hard audience because you're appealing to a very young child and the parent that has to read it one hundred times in a row. And so I think some of them were books for her kids love them and she was like, I never want to see these books again. Yeah, yeah, but so I don't have that, I don't know I don't have the input of actual little kids so I'm going off like this is a beautiful book. I'm touched by this book, I don't know if kids would actually like it.

 

39:47 - Stephie

So the unfair question. What were some of your favorite books as now and as a kid, and not just picture books like what are some of your, you mentioned the Giver, just favorite books? 

 

Brianne

I think the first book I remember being just obsessed with was the BFG Roald Dahl, and I loved that book. And then I went and read everything of Roald Dahl’s that I could find. He's super talented and dark. I love that too. Yeah. And I think as a kid I really, I really liked Sneeches by Dr. Seuss and, oh, Just a Dream by Chris Van Alsberg. That probably inspired Trees are Homes. Protect your environment. And what else: Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs, anything by Maurice Sendeck, the Little Bear books, and Where the Wild Things Are, Go Dog! Go! I recently re-read that and was like this book is brilliant. Yeah. And, and now...There's so much out there. Again, I'm like, I don't know if kids like these are not, but Greg Pizzoli is really great author, Illustrator. He just said a book about the “Watermelon Seed.” Okay, about a crocodile that follows a watermelon seed and Pool by, oh gosh, JHyeon Lee I think is her name and I think that that just one has a magical place in New York called the Society of illustrators and that's a museum slash art studio, that's just illustrations, And they hold, they do separate several competitions throughout the year but there's the original art show is just for children's books. And I think that that just won the original art show. It's a really cool space it's like this little converted townhouse, and it's kind of bright red door so you feel like you're kind of walking into a magical home. 

Stephie

Wow, great, things like that are celebrated. What a wonderful spot to celebrate that kind of creativity.

 

42:16 - Brianne

That's the thing I miss most about Brooklyn is that a lot of my friends also wrote and illustrated book so they've also got some really beautiful books coming out.

 

Stephie

And their titles, you can share?

 

Brianne

Yeah. Um, let's see, Ruth Chan has her first book coming out which is, “Where's the Party,” which is about a cat that wants to throw a party but then all of his friends are busy. And it's based on her real cat Georgie. And let's see, my friend, Dasha Tolstikova has this really beautiful illustrated novel coming out I guess that's what you call it so it's long but it's not really a graphic novel, probably like a hundred pages, “A Year Without Mom.” And that's about when she grew up in Russia and her mom moved to America, and she stayed in Russia for another year and then followed her mom so it's about that year, she's 13. 

 

Stephie

So, like a middle grade, Middle School? 

 

Brianne

Yeah, probably for like that same age group, 12-13. And she's also got a couple of picture books coming out “The Jacket.” She illustrated and that's like doing really, really well. It's a, it's a book about a girl who, I guess it's about a book, who, a girl buys the book and he's so happy to have someone who loves them. It’s so cute.

 

43:44 - Stephie

So, yeah. Any other thoughts on experiences you remember, projects you did that standout related to books or illustration in school, other experiences in other schools or libraries that you remember?

 

44:00 - Brianne

Well, each. And, and the librarians and I think I was really lucky to be in that talented and gifted program they have a lot of really great like kind of interactive projects where you are encouraged to write and, and draw, or they would maybe give you like several options of how to complete a project which I think is really great for kids learn and express themselves in different ways so you could either you know like, put on a play or like make a board game. I think that's always the one I chose like make some stuff with your hands, you could make, like, a little sculpture. I remember really loving my science classes, because I like making all the models. 

 

Stephie

Sure, yeah, it's interesting isn't it like even as a small, small young learner like those things that carry through, things that you love, you know, they might change, but some of those things stay. They are  what is important to you even as an adult.

 

45:11 - Stephie

Well, are there, anything is there anything I didn't ask you that you want to share.

 

45:17 - Brianne

I can think of any. Any ideas?.

 

45:20 - Larry

Okay, so the voice from the other side of the monitor. There, there are three questions I want to ask if you have the time. The first one I was fascinated by the conversation you guys had about picture, picture books, not being available, or is this something with the authors and publishers now making picture books for adults. First of all, was that their coffee table books, but not really because oftentimes, coffee table books don't contain a narrative. There more non-fiction. There might be a correlation between and especially for high school readers that correlation between picture books, and then read and students that have enjoyed picture books then graduating to graphic novels yeah I mentioned graphic novels and I wanted to know if you felt there was a connection there between the picture book and the graphic novel. 

 

Brianne

Definitely, I think that and I think graphic novels are really filling a hole that's been present in, in the books that are available that that graphic novels aren't just like superhero graphic novels anymore that you can get like these really beautiful narratives that, I think that this is the first year that a graphic novel won, oh gosh, I'm going to get it wrong, some big literary prize was won by a graphic novel this year 

 

Stephie

For kids or adults? 

 

Brianne

For kids it's like the Caldicot of, and I'm going to show you like such a dummy, I have to figure out what it is but it was like the Newbery, Yeah, 

 

Stephie

El Daffo, I think it was an honor. 

 

Brianne

Was it an honor? 

 

Stephie

We’ll have to crack this detail, definitely.

 

47:10 - Brianne

It's a great book, you should check it 

 

Stephie

It’s in our elementary libraries.

 

47:17 - Brianne

Because you can read it, like, I read it sitting in a cafe. You know the whole thing. 

 

Stephie

Our libraries just received a donation from AAUW, for the book “Roller Girl.”

 

Brianne

I heard it’s wonderful.

 

47:30 - Stephie

Yes, and it has wonderful messages for young girls. But it was. I'm guessing it was the first time we've had from that group, a graphic novel donated which, you know, there's so much more. Yeah, the quality of graphic novels, has come so far. But it really connects with kids all readers it really. Yeah, we've seen that really sparks kids who may or may not love to read and then it kind of ties, you know, good, kids who love to read anyway are drawn to it but sometimes you're reluctant readers of graphic novels less intimidating. 

 

Brianne

Yeah, yeah. Another. I have friends who teach in the Bronx who say that the graphic novels are this like huge gateway for kids that like might not even feel comfortable reading or maybe like English language learners or... it’s a nice, nice I like that and I think it makes, it can make, like, difficult topics more accessible. I think that, like I'd rather read a history graphic novel than like read a history book. Yeah.

 

48:36 - Stephie

And the graphic novel “The Fun House” which is for adults.

 

Brianne

Making so much. It's amazing so many ways right now which is funny because I taught that book in my autobiographical comic book writing class for A26. I mean, my friend Grace and I taught the class together and we just we photocopied, like one page out of a bunch of different books and showed kids like these are different styles of autobiographical comics. 

 

Stephie

Well it, kinda as a segway but I think it's now on Broadway. It’s become a Play. And I think she has another graphic novel coming out. 

 

49:15 - Brianne

I know that she's like a regular comic, like a series. But I think that that kind of predates “Fun Home” but I don't know who the next book is.

 

Stephie

Well and that was, you know, for, for example in “My Mom's” book we read, you know, it was the first time I think a lot of people were exposed to a graphic novel. It just it's come so, there's, there's just so much more at every level, and and that's an example of amazing illustrations, and amazing narrative as well. 

 

Brianne

Yeah, I was really lucked into a great class, and that McAllister my first class was called superheroes. And it was English class that we studied graphic novels and then books about graphic novels, and books about superheroes, like Frankenstein and Orlando like these kind of like super human people in literature, but it was my, It was great, and it was my first exposure to, like, critical discussion about a graphic novel I think it was the first time I'd ever read a graphic novel. We read Watchmen. We read Dylan Horrocks, what is it called, “Hicksville,” it’s a great book. It's about New Zealand and they ended up studying abroad in New Zealand and then I came back and read it again was like, it's so cool because it's about the, I mean it's about a guy who loves comic books, but it's also about the, kind of mythology of New Zealand and, like, Captain Cook discovering New Zealand and his interaction with like the Maori people that were already in there legend of how New Zealand came to be and it's like you learn all this stuff. You don't even... 

 

Stephie

You have to go back through this tape and make a reading list.

 

51:03 - Brianne

I spent way too much time with books.

 

51:11 - Stephie

something else who said that. I'll remember.

 

Larry

So I didn't realize that the graphic novel question was going to just..

 

Brianne

I love graphic novels! And I don’t love them as much as most people do. I’m, like, no connoisseur, but I do know that they're like, I think they're incredibly under appreciated, and should just be like, thrown out like confetti.

 

51:34 - Larry

As an Illustrator there’s a whole other conversation about how you relate to, to not only the pictures, specifically as an artist but also how you would tell your stories in a picture book, as opposed to a graphic novel and vice versa. But those aren’t the questions that I want to ask is that much longer. I think, you know, the idea is kind of keep this under an hour, and we're getting close to it. So, what I wanted to maybe close with if Stephie doesn't have any more questions, are two questions. One is, what is the most important thing and putting you on the spot here and I recognize this, what is the most important thing you believe you learn from a teacher.

 

52:31 - Brianne

I have no clue. Actually I guess cuz we're talking about like learning styles, because I think that's where that's kind of what we're going for with graphic novels was I like, that someone's learning style, I learned better with that. I also think it's important to do the learning style that you're not good at, and I, I, so when I was in, let's see, fourth, fifth and sixth grade so at TAG, we had to every week give a science report out loud in front of the entire class. And it's like, my deepest fear, like, like you would you rather be buried alive or give a report in front of class. And. And I think that that was incredibly helpful to kind of just like stand up there and just get used to it and like those communication skills are super helpful and every single part of your life going forward so I don't know if I'd say that they taught me to like face my fears or if they taught you that you can just like practice something and get good at it and, but. That persistence is more important than natural ability.

 

53:48 - Stephie

So then when you have 250 first through fifth graders staring gymnasium. 

 

Brianne

Oh yeah, I was terrible. My first couple of presentations I was like, BLLL

 

Stephie 

Looked very polished to everyone,

 

54:03 - Brianne

Not through natural ability, It was through like going home and being like, Okay, I need to redo my entire PowerPoint presentation. I think it's something that like is probably the most important part of a when kids go to those presentations is like seeing that there's a huge leap between where they are and like where they'll be as an adult, and that you can kind of be like, I was really bad at these things, and then you just do them a lot. And then you're good at them. Like I have friends were like, “your such a better drawer than I am,” and I'm like, “you're such a better lawyer than I am,” and they’re like, “I went to school for that,” and I'm like, “I did to.” It’s not magic, you just keep trying it.

 

54:51 - Stephie

And, and wanting to keep trying. Have the love for it. And that's, I mean the segue’s to but having kids, especially local like when you're talking to an Old Mission and when you talk to other schools in our district, for them to say she went, like, she sat here, she was in my school being a kid here, and then she's really doing the thing that I'm wanting to do. That is incredibly powerful for kids.

 

Brianne

Yeah, and I actually don't remember this, I vaguely remember it but a cartoonist came to Old Mission when I went there, and I guess I came home from that author visit and my and told my mom that I wanted to be a cartoonist and was, like super inspired by it, yeah, vaguely remember this guy coming but, yeah, that's has a huge impact on me. Yeah, just like opening up the scope of, like, what you think is possible.

 

Stephie

And I think the library is clear on that, yeah and experiences for kids. Bring the world in and through books to the world for kids. 

 

Brianne

It opens you up to the things that you might not naturally seek out, like, I just went to our library on Woodmere the other day I was looking for books about Matisse and came home with a book about Danish chairs, because it was like sitting out on a table and I was like Oh, chairs! that’s what’s like, so magical about libraries is that you're like, you know, it's all just there. And you might kind of wander into something that you weren't looking for. And then the librarians are these like incredible gatekeepers who are just way smarter than I am.

 

56:37 - Stephie

But that's what we hope the libraries are doing is opening up all these possibilities. 

 

Brianne

Yeah, and that's something that like the internet can't replace. I visited an elementary school, where the librarian stands in the hallway, and she has like hand picked out books for certain kids and as she sees them walk by she would be like this book is yours. This is a really cool. I’m sure that they feel really special.

 

Stephie

And knowing your readers, you know, connections.

 

57:11 - Larry

Okay. So last question. And then ties in exactly you segueing your segue. What advice would you give a student interested in pursuing a career in publishing? So, you inspired one of those, one of those kids.

 

Brianne

I hope you like ramen noodles. You will not be rich. I guess, yeah, I guess what we've been talking about. Of course you have a natural interest in certain things but that, that persistence will get you way farther than any, like, ability you may have like out of the gate, and that, Neil Gaiman gave a speech that I think about all the time where he said that you only have to be two of three things, either have to be talented, pleasant to work with, or on time, you only have to be like, be only two to those. It's like if you're pleasant to work and on time then you don't have to be that talented.

 

58:17 - Stephie

So true.

 

58:19 - Brianne

Yeah, you can. I think there's something, really something to be said for persistence and pleasantness.