EdTech Loop Ep. 88 - We Gave Your Kid a Device...Now What?

Episode 88 of the EdTechLoop Weekly Podcast! After having our fill of caprese salads and grilled vegetarian kebabs it's finally time to whip up some #GoogleEdu marinade and slather it on this week's meat of the show, “We gave your kid a device...now what?”

Additional Links:

Parenting in the Digital Age Presentation

• Parents - you can set limits and take the device away
• Filter that home network

Screentime Rules From A Teacher

Guide to Parental Controls

 

Episode 88 Transcription:

Stephie Luyt  0:00  

Hey, they still have dot matrix printers over there.

 

David Noller  0:05  

Yes, they still have modems

 

Larry Burden  0:15  

Should I be recording, hold on.

 

Stephie Luyt  0:15  

You didn't save the day for them. 

 

David Noller  0:16  

I had a legitimate moral dilemma. 

 

Larry Burden  0:19  

I am recording by the way and you need to settle down.

 

Larry Burden  0:28  

it's Episode 88 of the EDtechLoop podcast My name is Larry Burden and ignoring the fire marshals maximum occupancy warnings. It's Danielle Brostrom, Stephie Luyt, and the TechNollerGist, David Noller. We've packed up the beach towels and the sunscreen in favor of backpacks, Chromebooks, and this week's moment of Zen. 

 

Moment of Zen  0:47  

What is art? It is when you have paper, and you don't know why it's paper. 

 

Larry Burden  0:54  

Thank you from one of the students from my wife's toddler classroom for that one. 

 

David Noller  1:00  

It's when you have paper, 

 

Larry Burden  1:01  

and you don't know why, 

 

David Noller  1:03  

and you don't know why 

 

Larry Burden  1:03  

it's paper 

 

David Noller  1:04  

it's paper. Yeah, I gotta go.

 

David Noller  1:09  

That, I want to think about that more than anything else right now.

 

Larry Burden  1:12  

 I know, she said that this morning and I was like, yeah I need that.

 

Larry Burden  1:19  

We've lost the TechNollergist, after having our fill of caprese salads and grilled vegetarian kebabs it's finally time to whip up some Google Edu marinate and slather it on this week's meat of the show, we gave our kid a device...Now what. I love this topic and I think it's the perfect way to start the first pod of the year. Because really, we tend to focus on all these different things we can do with the device, the goals that we're trying to reach with the device. Let's, Let's start at the beginning, we've given them. This tool. Now, let's start looking at those transitional properties of what do you do with it to get to the goal. So what do you do, what do you supposed to do with the tool to reach your goal. 

 

Danelle Brostrom  2:01  

And I think this is where it becomes kind of becomes a thing because in our district we do give kids a device in sixth grade, and they get to take it home, and it's, it's, it's theirs to manage and the parents job to manage and I think that this is a great podcast for parents because we do need to give them some advice on what they can do to help manage this new media that's going to be in their home.

 

Larry Burden  2:26  

On Twitter. We had two comments, two comments that came through when I asked this question, and I thought they framed it in the two in two ways that maybe we should look at the first comment from and I'm gonna get his name wrong and he's all over Twitter, he's great follow Anthony Locricchio, maybe, I don't know, I apologize, his comment, it's a learning tool, and it's yours, so treated as if it's the last one in the world. I think that's a great way to look at it because it is it's a it's a tool it's one of the things we're trying to focus on this year. But, B, it is access to everything, and how important is that, as an educational tool if they know how, if they have the foundational skills to use it appropriately. The other one was from Danielle Brostrom, practice balance every day, shut the device down once in a while, and look your friends in the eye. I think that's great and really it comes down to thinking about those two, two comments. First one, what can it do? second comment. What should it not do? We're giving them this tool. What can it do?

 

Danelle Brostrom  3:34  

I think the first thing that parents do need to know is that all the Chromebooks that we send home are filtered. Schools are required by SEPA to filter, we filter all school loaned devices so they should be not able to access content that's inappropriate. I know that's a lot of parents concern, but I still think you should set up your home network and filters to do some filtering, on top of that. But, um, but we do have some filtering within so it is, it is open but how do you teach kids to use it for good and not evil I guess that's, that's another part of it. 

 

Stephie Luyt  4:07  

And how to kids learn that, like they, they're in charge of the device. The device is not in charge of them so that balance idea, how do they learn the skills and adults need those skills to making sure that you're not letting the distractions get to be too much and that you're limiting yourself on real life time and time on a device. 

 

David Noller  4:28  

So one of the things that we have thought about at home is that the device, whether it's the Chromebook that we give them or the smartphone. It all fits within and under the same umbrella family values so if something is something that we believe in for reading books or watching movies. The same is true of smart devices and computers. If having them access. something would, would go against what we think is right and good and just and true, it's that way, on, on a mobile device or on a Chromebook, as much as it is, anything else. So, I think, it was important for us to have that conversation early about what would mom or dad expect. And when I'm in the classroom and kids have choice reads where they get to pick a novel or pick a short story to read. I always have a line about, make sure that you're selecting something that fits your, your family's set of values. So that whoever you are responsible to will be okay with your choice. 

 

Larry Burden  5:35  

When they get the device and they bring the device home.That is the time to have that conversation. 

 

David Noller  5:41  

Sure, to have that intentional conversation about where does this fit within the context of everything else that makes up the family values and the family expectations.

 

Danelle Brostrom  5:51  

100% and I think the biggest thing that I would want parents to know too is that they can always take that device away. The school, gave it to you yes, so that your child could do homework and research and do other educational things, but you are, as a parent, you are in charge of what happens in the home. You want to take it away,  take it away if you feel like the amount of time that they're spending on it is too much, have a conversation with that child's teacher and see if the amount of time they're spending on is appropriate to the amount of homework that they're getting and blah blah blah but just as a parent parents sometimes don't they just need that permission to know that they can take that device away. 

 

Larry Burden  6:29  

We're kind of discussing specifically Chromebooks, but I think this is applicable to anytime you're introducing a digital device to a child. For us to presume that the first device that the child is getting is our Chromebook. I think would be disingenuous, or at least or at least. Yeah. So let's hope that the parent has already had that discussion with the child when they got their phone or they got their iPad or whatever device that they, you know, were first introduced to. What specifically about a TCAPS Chromebook, should they be discussing or doing. First thing, first thing that a parent should do when that 

 

David Noller  7:11  

After we've already had that discussion of values and all that from previous devices. You know you made a comment earlier about how you know treat this like it's an educational tool and it's the last one on earth, and I think that speaks back to the idea that, they're not ever going to think that way because they already have one probably in their hand. The current the smartphone or the tablet or whatever. They've been using those devices a long time and so I'm thinking about it from the instructional point of view about the management of the device as a learning tool. The first thing I did when my kids brought their son was charge it. Find a place every day that you're going to charge that thing and charges every night you're responsible for that. It's like taking care of a puppy. He give them the jobs that they have to do, and they have to do them every night, because if they don't, the puppy cries. We don't want the puppy to cry. 

 

Danelle Brostrom  8:00  

They don't charge the device the teacher cries. 

 

David Noller  8:03  

Well, again, you know, I've come from the high school perspective. And I kind of have this line about if you come with an uncharged device that's a you problem. That's one I'm not really probably going to solve for you. That's one that you're going to figure out how to navigate through that on your own. Now I'll help kids when they absolutely need it. But I like them to think of that as a responsibility that they have and if they create a roadblock for themselves they get to figure out the bridge to get over it, so. 

 

Stephie Luyt  8:36  

It is a device that is different from what they have at home, most likely because it has this extra layer of it's coming from school and it's being given to them to complete homework. And I think that is an extra discussion point for parents, and I think parents do sometimes feel like, okay the school gave this to them, I have less control over it as a device. But it's the same, it's, it's a device in the home and it has all these educational applications but there's also lots of distractions of course. So I think parents have to feel empowered that it's okay to manage it and help your child get those, you know, even the logistical steps in place of taking care of it like a device but also still has the power to...it still needs to be harnessed. And it, it's the parents still have that ultimate, that control over the device, even though it's coming from school. 

 

David Noller  9:33  

I wonder about the, the distractibility. We know that, you know, distractions are a click away. But, you know, I grew up with, with friends and and other people who: their note taking guide became a place to doodle on. You know, their, their book even became a place to draw pictures in, or whatever, and, and so the depth of distractibility is certainly increased because of the interactive nature of what they can access or videos or things that they can really sink themselves into. But in terms of the device itself being the main cause of that, I think it's more like the habits of the kids. And often what we see, is the kids that are, that tend towards distraction whether they have a device in front of them, or a blank sheet of paper, they're going to find a way to do something other than what they're supposed to. Whether it's watching YouTube, or writing their name and then outlining it in 95 different colors with magic markers or colored pencils.

 

Danelle Brostrom  10:33  

Haven't we all done that, though. I mean, haven't we all started watching. 

 

David Noller  10:37  

Yes, 

 

Danelle Brostrom  10:38  

Something that made sense to what you were doing and then eight YouTube videos later.

 

David Noller  10:44  

Uh-Huh, 

 

Danelle Brostrom  10:44  

We're watching videos and and yes I've done the same thing with doodling and then realize I missed half of the lecture. So how, I do think it's just important to be honest with kids about that that, hey, this happens to all of us when the tech is set up to keep us hooked and keep us down this rabbit hole. 

 

David Noller  11:04  

And I think it's important you said something about being honest and telling them that. To let them know, Look, I get caught down the rabbit hole to, once you recognize you're there, look for the light.

 

Danelle Brostrom  11:14  

It's a meditation thing isn's it Larry?

 

Larry Burden  11:16  

I was thinking that same thing, this is, this is mindfulness practice is really what we're talking about as far as this topics topics is concerned, and that there are kind of anti distraction tools out there I know there are different apps on phones to help, you know keep you on task. Timers that you can do. When a child is invested, if they're invested in what they're doing, they're going to be much less likely to want to be distracted. Now they're going to get distracted as we've all said. You wanted, you wanted to watch that the TED talk or, you know, a conference or whatever and you get distracted. It's if they're invested, they're going to be much more likely to recognize when they're distracted and then want to do something about it. So with that being said, What can we do as far as making the tool that it is, something that engages them. Okay, you have this device. Let's assume we're safe on it. Now what? 

 

David Noller  12:16  

Now I'm thinking of this from the teachers perspective. 

 

Larry Burden  12:19  

That's perfect. 

 

David Noller  12:20  

Okay, so I give my kids. Short deadlines like you have five minutes to do the following. If three minutes to do the following. I rarely give them something where they're on their device that takes longer than five to seven minutes. Because, and I, what I'll do with that is ask them some sort of interesting engaging question, at least I hope it is, right? 

 

Danelle Brostrom  12:44  

Yes, it is. 

 

David Noller  12:45  

And creative writing I'll give them a prompt that hopefully they've never thought of before, and I'll allow them to write for five to seven minutes, and then I give myself permission to cut them off. Who's still writing? Oh, you are okay, We'll wait. I give myself permission to cut these kids off to try to give them used to the sense of urgency when it comes to thinking and writing. So I think, asking interesting questions, providing short deadlines where there's no time to be distracted because if I give you three minutes. You're going to need all of it, for that question. And if you get done early. What are you going to do for 30 seconds that's going to get you down the rabbit hole. So that's one thing is that intentional planning with short deadlines. The other thing is that when I give them activities that take longer time. It's something kind of complex, or something where they're, they're doing the designing of the learning as they do it. So giving them lots of options in terms of what they're going to kind of collect as a resource, as they create the thing that they're, they're, they're doing. 

 

Larry Burden  13:51  

The exploration is built into the... 

 

David Noller  13:53  

It is, and it's guided so that it's not just go find, but it's, here's a set of resources, start here. So I've pre loaded a little bit with things that I know will work, so they don't get down the Google rabbit hole. But you know, preloaded with some things that work and then say if you've, if you've used these and you've gotten so far but you want to go further, then you can. But, but again, even those are, are steps in a way that. Here's the first task you about 10 minutes. Go. Okay, well let's see we got, okay. You never got there, okay i'll talk to you in just a second. Next thing is about seven minutes, 10 minutes, whatever, find this and do this thing, Go. And I use the expression on the mark, get set, go, a lot in class, because I want them to think of it, not like it's a race, but there's some urgency to the timeline. 

 

Danelle Brostrom  14:42  

So as a parent when you're at home and you don't have control over the task that the child has to do. You can do the same thing though with a simple kitchen kitchen timer like what we talked about earlier. You know, you, you work for 10 or seven minutes. Go. You're done. Take a break, shut it down, let's go do something else. 

 

David Noller  14:59  

Check in see where they're at. 

 

Danelle Brostrom  15:01  

Yeah, 

 

David Noller  15:01  

I intentionally structure my classes that way because, as much as we want to say get the kids up and moving around, there's not a ton of ways to do that authentically. It just feels like the amount of time we want to spend them moving will never reach. You know, there's gonna be some time in the seat that they're just gonna have to spend there. But if I can move it along with some energy and have them move, do different thing and different thing and different thing and step it in a way that keeps them interested and motivated. 

 

Stephie Luyt  15:33  

When I'm thinking about myself as a learner because I'm taking grad glasses. And the first time through when I was in school I was not distracted by having phones or having any of this. And so I resorted to using a timer. Like, if, and especially if it's something where I'm just consuming or reading or doing something I'm, not that, because I'm of course very engaged in reading, but if it's something that it might not be the most engaging that I'm working on I do have to set a timer so that I don't end up on my phone signing my kids up for soccer or doing whatever else is scheduling X, Y, or Z. You know, I'm not playing Crossy Road, but you're still distracted by what all those other things and you know when there's something that you're engaged in and you're doing the creation it's easier than being the consumer of the information in a lot of ways. And it's, but I, you know, same thing like I have to manage it in the same way as like little kiddos. 

 

David Noller  16:26  

I'll find, I'll start doing something on a short story and then learn something about an author, and then he was in a war, and then I have to go read up on that, and then oh wait, this was invented during that time, then I have to go read that thing. So I get stuck in those rabbit holes too and I do the same thing I set a timer on my watch. And I've got all these like preset little timers, and if I have a thing that I know I have to get done, I'll set a timer for 15 minutes from now and just let it buzz me. Am I still on track? 

 

Larry Burden  16:51  

It's so prevalent, it's not that any of us are more or less, though we are more or less distractible. 

 

David Noller  16:58  

Me, 

 

Larry Burden  16:58  

But everybody, especially for, for, for adults, I think it's almost more of an issue for adults. And we've talked about this in the past. Really for parents, one of the great things about what you were saying was that, that 10 minute period is then you're paying your attention to your kid every 10 minutes, which isn't necessarily happening and because, guess what, you're down the internet rabbit hole, you know, as well. 

 

David Noller  17:26  

There's so many things that, that our, that our adult lives are full with, but with the kids, their's to. It's not all necessarily YouTube and, and Instagram, it might be, you know, texting with their friend because they had a bad day and you're the one that's supposed to provide them comfort. I had to deal with that last year, there's so many things in their lives that are important to them that are part of that set of distractions, that I think we have to recognize that and give them a little bit of space to be able to encounter those things, like we do. But then teach them how to take a break from them and lets get done what we need to. 

 

Larry Burden  18:03  

Having that conversation early, having that when you introduce that digital device. Prior to them maybe becoming a little jaded, or already being down that rabbit hole, having that conversation. This will, it's not a question of, it might, this will be a distraction. Here are some tools. 

 

David Noller  18:20  

We always set a timer for our kids when they were in elementary school for their homework. And it was like 30 minutes. We just set the timer on the microwave and would have worked for 30 minutes and when the timer went off they could do whatever they wanted. We always did it in chunks like that. I didn't really think about that because it's been many, many years since they were in elementary school. That was the thing we did for our own kids just to give them a work time and then I go be a kid time, and then come back and finish your work time, and then you'll be a kid again. 

 

Stephie Luyt  18:49  

And that involves some hands on on your part, and I think really the best way to model and help kids to do that is to be hands on with them and, and, and manage you know okay, you're going to be on this, you're going to work on this for this amount of time and I'll check back with you. Unfortunately there is no easy way to set them up with the perfect, there's no perfect app that will do all that for you. And I think the perfect app is the parent or the caregiver who's involved in, and helping monitor, helping monitor and model. 

 

Danelle Brostrom  19:20  

That's what I was thinking too, is that parents too, I mean and me too, man. I'm working and trying to keep the house up and everything that has to be done when you're an adult, and managing your kids time on this device is a pain, and it's complicated and it's tricky and oh my gosh I just want to push a button and have it done for me because I don't have time to deal with it I mean that's the reality. But you have to do it. This isn't like something that you can opt out of really because the media will parent for you if you don't. This is something that you really have to do. And I think just the, I think we need to know too that everyone's kind of going through it together, you're not alone.

 

Larry Burden  20:01  

We're definitely talking about the same thing, we're all on the same rabbit hole so it's, it's, it's good. But we're talking about attention, really recognizing that attention on a task is what we're trying to get our students to be able to maintain. One of the neat things that David had said was pre device, building some, some skills. I think that's a really interesting way to look at this is there are, there are a lot of digital skills that can be pre built before they get the device. And having some mental discipline regarding attention before they get the device, you know, early, when they're when they're maybe a little more moldable, maybe not in eighth grade, turns out, might be good. It's not giving them the device, it's recognizing that they are going to be living in a digital world. There are some skills that we can develop before they get the device that would be really useful. So that when you hand it to them they're prepared. What would those skills be? just dropping that one, boom. 

 

David Noller  21:10  

Sure, 

 

Larry Burden  21:10  

go get 'em. 

 

Stephie Luyt  21:11  

Well, recognizing when they've gotten off task and having, having an idea of, Okay, how do I get myself back on task and it was it done I do need to set a timer, or I need to switch to a different activity that's away from whatever I've been distracted by. I think, I mean, to label okay right now I'm off task. Now what and have a plan. 

 

Danelle Brostrom  21:32  

I think working with your children and your family and being present, being focused on who you're with, when you're with them. Focused on, it's the same idea just really focusing on the idea of being present and not being distracted by 18 different things. 

 

Larry Burden  21:49  

We're getting right around that time for sure. I wanted to talk about when we had that device over to one of our students, what does that mean for staff? What responsibilities they have once they've given that tool to a student? 

 

David Noller  22:05  

I think it changes how you interact with students, and how you plan, and how you design your lesson. Because if you're not intentionally using the tool. Then you're just sort of randomly, hoping that whatever you're going to do works. You wouldn't come into a classroom and hand a kid a textbook and say, find some neat information that you want to report out. You'd build in some structure to that. You'd build in some parameters. You would give them a certain amount of time to get it done. You would suggest a manner in which they could report out. You would plan intentionally with your tools in mind. The devices shouldn't just be another way to fill out a worksheet. So I think one of the things is that we want teachers to think about intentionally planning, so that they know that they're about to hand their kid a task that's going to have them on this device for X amount of minutes. Are you okay with that? Can your kids handle that? Are they ready for that experience? And I think if they can ask those, themselves, those questions, and say yes to those, then okay, we're ready to go. If there's any trepidation then maybe we need to be a little bit more intentional about that planning and what it is we actually expect to happen once we engage the kids with that device. My other thing for teachers is this. It's okay, like you say, to take the device away. Get used to saying lids down place, or however you want to say that. And it's, it's not optional. This is a time when our lids are closed. I do it all the time. I use my devices with my kids all the time. And they, they know that when I say lids down they go down, then they come back up and Chromebooks are so fast in terms of starting and stopping and starting, and that's okay. But if you forget to say lids down, that's and the kid gets off task and that's when teachers get upset, well there's such a distraction. 

 

Stephie Luyt  24:02  

And I think if, if parents touch base and say, my kids spending X amount of time on this device, you know, all night. What, to be able to communicate what your expectations were with the tools that they can help gauge like okay they are way out of bounds for these reasons. You know, this is what the teacher is looking for. And, and be mindful of what the kids are getting from for our secondary from all their other classes? You know, what, what is a reasonable expectation for amount of use on this device. And do they have to, you know, what's that big picture going to look like? And for parents to understand and like all of our teachers are, are thinking through those ideas and how to communicate those if a parent asks. 

 

Danelle Brostrom  24:43  

In the classroom first half, I would just remind teachers that you don't have to use them. You know, goes back to the whole, Liz Kolb stuff, use it when it makes sense if it doesn't make sense just because the kids have them, doesn't mean they have to use them. They can pick up a real book. That's good for them. 

 

David Noller  24:57  

Sure. I have a metaphor I use pretty regularly. Where there's the movie, "Uncle Buck." And he's making pancakes. And normally, we use a spatula to make pancakes and you flip them over. So if you're going to use a spatula for pancakes, that's fine. If you need a snow shovel, because your Uncle Buck making it three foot wide pancake. Use a snow shovel. But if you're making little six inch pancakes like you normally would, snow shovels too much. So use the whatever tool makes sense for the tasks that you're trying to do. If it's a book and paper, use a book and paper, if it's the internet and Chromebooks, then grab the snow shovel. 

 

Larry Burden  25:40  

It's interesting, technology is no longer cool. 

 

David Noller  25:45  

Right, 

 

Stephie Luyt  25:46  

It's neutral, it just is. 

 

Larry Burden  25:46  

It's neutral, what you can do with technology as a tool can be cool. 

 

David Noller  25:53  

For these kids the Internet has always existed. 

 

Larry Burden  25:56  

Times be changing. Anything else, there's there's I mean, there's a ton more we're just out of time so. 

 

Stephie Luyt  26:01  

I think there's a lot more to talk about. To be continued. 

 

Larry Burden  26:04  

All right. Hey, Do we have a tech tool of the week?

 

Tech Tool of the Week  26:09  

REMC has this amazing course called, "21 Things for Students," and it is something that teachers can use in the classroom but I even think that this specific lesson is beneficial for parents. They just released a new quest five called, "Balancing My Media," and I love this especially in light of our discussion today because it has some great video resources, some great vocabulary, some great graphic organizers to help kids kind of organize their thoughts about their digital media balance, and there's just a lot here to help families and kids learn about how Tech has hooked and how we can try to break that. And I just think there's a lot here so I'll share that in the show notes. 

 

Larry Burden  26:50  

Tutorials and updates, not a whole lot. I did see a Chromebook Care and Management tutorial from from the TechNollerGist on YouTube so we'll definitely have that in the show notes. Just wanted to point out again it's, we have a we're hosted on a new site, podbean, podbean is the new podcast hoster so. You can find us now pretty much everywhere, and the podcast, podcast will now be transcribed so you can read the podcast. So very exciting there. In closing, follow us on Facebook and Twitter @TCAPSLoop, 

 

Danelle Brostrom  27:21  

@brostromda, 

 

David Noller  27:22  

@TechNollerGist, 

 

Stephie Luyt  27:24  

@StephieLuyt. 

 

Larry Burden  27:25  

Right, subscribe to the podcast on podbean iTunes, Stitcher, Tune-in, Downcast, Overcast, the Google Play Store, and Spotify. Leave a review, we love the feedback. We'd love your questions. Thanks for listening, and inspiring.

 

Larry Burden  27:41  

That was that was all over the map.

 

Danelle Brostrom  27:43  

That was a tricky one.