EdTech Loop Ep. 95 - The Rise of eSports

Wow! Danelle and I were so thankful to have Ted Kidd and Dylan Chapman join us for this is a jam packed eSports episode of the EdTech Loop Podcast. If you are at all curious about the eSports phenomenon this is a must listen as our guests break down almost any aspect you could think of concern the sport. As the TechNollerGist would say, "Play a game today, it's good for you."

 

Full Show Transcript:

Dylan Chapman 0:00
Yeah, I've got you loud and clear here.

Danelle Brostrom 0:07
We lost Dylan

Ted Kidd 0:08
He's frozen

Danelle Brostrom 0:09
I know. Awe,

Dylan Chapman 0:10
Hi, sorry about that. I got myself kicked out I think.

Danelle Brostrom 0:13
Larry. Are you ready?

Larry Burden 0:15
We are ready.

Larry Burden 0:21
It's Episode 95 of the EdTech Loop podcast. My name is Larry Burden and she'll choose Yoshi over Mario every time. It's Danelle Brostrom. For the first time ever on The EdTech Loop podcast we are joined remotely by the heroes of Michigan High School eSports, Dylan Chapman and Ted Kidd. Before they joined us in our endless quest to level up, we've already discovered this week's Moment of Zen.

Moment of Zen 0:47
Time passes, people move, like a rivers flow it never ends, a childish mind will turn to noble ambition.

Larry Burden 0:58
Danelle has taken over the cooking duties and has barred me from the kitchen so she could remotely prepare this week's meat of the show. The Rise of Esports.

Danelle Brostrom 1:19
So Ted, can you give us a little introduction on who you are?

Ted Kidd 1:22
Ted Kidd work at Pinckney Community Schools. I'm the Director of Technology Operations and which is kind of a glorified network janitor job.

Danelle Brostrom 1:31
And Dylan?

Dylan Chapman 1:32
I'm a high school social studies teacher at Grass Lake High School.

Danelle Brostrom 1:35
Tell me what is eSports?

Dylan Chapman 1:37
eSport s is competitive online video game play. It's a multi-billion dollar industry, and it's being played at everywhere from the high school, even middle school level, all the way up to collegiate, and professional play.

Danelle Brostrom 1:50
How long have eSports been going on here in Michigan?

Ted Kidd 1:52
At the high school level it's, this is kind of the fourth year. In our experience we've seen some competitive tournaments happen at Lawrence Technical University, they started that about three years ago, and then just recently, Dylan, myself and a few others in the state of Michigan have formed a organization called MiHSEF or Michigan High School eSports Federation, to allow all high school eSports programs to compete against each other for free.

Danelle Brostrom 2:24
Nice. What kind of benefits are the kids getting from eSports? Like how, how are you selling this to families because I guarantee you there's probably a lot of moms that are like, no that's not a real thing honey, go back to doing what you were doing before.

Dylan Chapman 2:34
Some of the things that are like life skills or lessons that students learn are things like, communication, teamwork, sportsmanship. In a lot of ways, it's like traditional sports and then a lot of other ways it's not. But they learn a lot of the skills that they would on the football field, but in a just a different environment. So some things that are different that I think that they learn, are things like self learning. They're definitely motivated internally, like by themselves to push themselves further. The players participate as coaches a lot more than, than traditional sports and that gives the students a sense of leadership and control.

Ted Kidd 3:12
The thing about eSports versus traditional sports, because you kind of mentioned as well, is the esports can be played all year round. So kids don't just play for, you know, a six week period and then leave. Some of them will play all year round. So they really get a sense of community when they enter an eSports program.

Dylan Chapman 3:34
As far as communities that are in doubt that eSports is something to participate in or worthwhile. I would just point to the major professional competitions that have been happening. Just recently, the Fortnite competition where a 16 year old took home the biggest prize purse in professional sports history of $3 million. To say that eSports is just kind of a, either a flash in the pan, or something that shouldn't be taken seriously, I would point to those major competitions, such as the League of Legends competitions that sell out arenas like Little Caesars Arena, Madison Square Garden, week after week. People are all in. If people don't know yet, they're just kind of out of the loop and they'll soon recognize that eSports is probably here to stay and it's going to take a bigger and bigger role, in the sports field. This kind of as a side note, the benefits of being a collegiate eSports player is it's not governed by the NCAA is governed by a different organization called NAC, and they had specifically written the rules that they don't have the amateurism standard where they can make, they can only make less than $1 on their likeness. So a big part of eSports revenue for individuals is their streaming and their online, like, influencer presence. So they're allowed to make all that money. They're allowed to play professionally, and they're also allowed to get scholarships to go to school at the same time.

Danelle Brostrom 4:59
That's amazing to me that a 16 year old could bring home a prize like that, and now we're selling out arenas like that for, for gaming. Did you ever see this, did you visualize this happening someday?

Dylan Chapman 5:12
I think eSports has gone through a couple generations of evolution. You could probably take it back to the days of Madden, and those kind of competitions. Super Smash Brothers, which is still a game that's played, was one of those original, kind of big major tournament play games. Those are still being played all around the country and including in places like Michigan where the prizes can get up there into the thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars depending on the size of the contest.

Ted Kidd 5:40
So Dylan, really, you can date this back to, you know, in the day of Pac Man, and Miss Pac Man where...

Dylan Chapman 5:46
Oh yeah,

Ted Kidd 5:47
kids would come together and have these little mini tournaments at the local arcade to see who's the best. This is basically dated back to, to a place where video games have started. You know, Calicovision and Atari, and all those game consoles lended themselves well to the local competition.

Dylan Chapman 6:07
I'd say if anything it's just becoming more widespread across age groups and demographics.

Ted Kidd 6:11
And now with the internet and fast internet speeds, playing from home is definitely an option for a lot of kids and that's how they practice and get better.

Danelle Brostrom 6:22
This is amazing. What kind of practice, do you think your eSport athletes are, what kind of practice times they putting in?

Ted Kidd 6:30
So in the Pinckney District, we let them practice twice a week, two hours a night after school. And then they have matches twice a week. Sometimes they'll, they'll stay a little bit later to, to play against each other, or do another scrimmage online. So we have the kids in, after school, two hours a night, pretty much four days a week.

Dylan Chapman 6:51
Same here with my program. I'm actually in my eSports lab right now. We were able to commandeer an underutilized space. And we have practice here after school four days a week. We have matches twice a week. And one of the benefits I would say for families is that it does help to manage screen time for the students. Like when they're obligated to play, they're not as apt to get on once they get home. They kind of have gotten it out of their system in a controlled environment, and they move on to doing the things that they're supposed to do when they get home.

Ted Kidd 7:23
Yeah, like family time, homework.

Danelle Brostrom 7:26
Good, we're advocating balance. What is the coach's role during those practices, what does the coach do to encourage?

Ted Kidd 7:34
I'm gonna say most schools don't have coaches, they have advisors. And my job as, as an advisor is to just make sure they're in the right games, they're participating with their own team. Occasionally, we'll, we'll look at replay game footage to see what went right, what went wrong. When you study the film, just like in football, you can see where you made mistakes and get better. And then there's a lot of organizing that has to happen with these eSports programs. So things like fundraising, and just communicating with parents. Making sure that Athletic Directors and Superintendents, and Building Principals know what is going on. That's important. Communication is key.

Dylan Chapman 8:18
Yeah, the administrative back end definitely takes the bulk of what the adults responsibility is when it comes to coaching. Most of the advisors don't have the hundreds and hundreds of hours of gameplay experience that the players themselves have. Which is why player coaches and captains play a different role than they do in traditional sports, and there's almost more responsibility and leadership on their shoulders because of that, which is in my opinion, all good.

Danelle Brostrom 8:45
You said that you have a lab at your school, what, what what kind of hardware needs to have to get started?

Dylan Chapman 8:49
Ted could probably talk about the technical side of this, but it definitely varies from school to school. Some schools are ready to go, all they have to do is kind of like, turn the lights on and they're able to do it. Some schools will have to have, bring your own equipment, for a time period until they're able to establish funding or get the resources that they need donated in whatever capacity.

Ted Kidd 9:08
The technical side of things, depending on the games that your school wants to play, typically have to have at least six computers. And six is the number of machines needed for the game called Overwatch. With a team of Overwatch, you need pretty high end machines. I mean you don't need, you don't need to buy $2,000 desktops or anything but, for example, in Pinckney, we got Black Friday deal last year, and picked up 12 machines for $530 each. So, depending on where you look for the deals and specials you can really pick up, what you need relatively cheaply. Thankfully we were able to get a loan from our Athletic Department to get us started. In lieu of buying computers, you can also subscribe to a service called Shadowgaming. I don't want to advertise for them but, Shadowgaming is a service that allows anybody to create an account, and essentially you log into their, their account, all the computing is done in the cloud, at their facilities, and they essentially stream you, what you're doing online. It's a neat service. Unfortunately it's $20 per month, per account, so it's kind of a pricey investment. But if you don't have the resources available to get computers, it's a, it's an option for schools. There are some schools that are sharing spaces. So CAD Lab machines are typically a good way to use an area for a multi purpose. So CAD labs definitely have the, typically have the horsepower needed to to play these games.

Dylan Chapman 10:47
At my school we're repurposing some Robotics laptops that had 3D rendering abilities, which gave us the computing power to run the games at a decent setting. But yeah, cloud based computer gaming services shadow is one, Nvidia, which is a graphics card producer, they also have another one. That one's currently free. If schools wanting to experiment with just one season of league play it would be a cheap way to dabble. But long term I think building your own machines is probably the most cost effective, and you can incorporate some hands on computer science learning. With what Ted has done to update those computers, long term, they're not going to go out of date so to speak, they can just be updated which is, I would say, a cheaper one of the sports to participate in if you think about the equipment costs for other traditionals so.

Danelle Brostrom 11:40
You guys have mentioned the games a couple times. Talk to me about the games? How are the games chosen? Do you choose the games? Are there multiple games? How does that all work?

Dylan Chapman 11:48
So with our high school league we've chosen to go with Teen rating and below. And what we're trying to do is mirror what colleges and universities are playing. And what the colleges and universities are doing is they're mirroring what the professionals are playing. It's not to say that that's the end goal for us is to produce professional players, but we want to open up a dialogue between colleges and universities and high schools, and give an avenue to students that aren't typically given those opportunities to get scholarships for athletics.

Ted Kidd 12:19
The Teen rating, and I want to call it milder is important for schools. Because if we were to go to a rated M for Mature type of a rating for some of these games, you're looking at games with a lot of graphic violence, bloody, gory, realistic weaponry. To expose kids to it at a high school level I think is, right now irresponsible. Only because we don't know how communities will react to it, first of all, and your administration will shut you down if you do that. So, at this point, it's not a battle I want to fight at my school. So we definitely stick to the T rating.

Danelle Brostrom 13:01
Now Dylan you mentioned scholarships. What kind of opportunities are available here, here in Michigan or beyond. But what kind of opportunities are available for these kids that are starting with you in the MiHSeF.

Dylan Chapman 13:11
So I'd say that there's probably going on a dozen schools that offer varsity programs, which is scholarship opportunities for eSports. Most of those games are the games that we're playing in our league. That spectrum of games could change and we'll, we'll change with those changes. Schools like Davenport University, Aquinas College, Western has a major eSports lab, and arena. They're working on getting their scholarship program in motion. Surrounding states, especially in the Midwest Great Lakes area have kind of been at eSports for a while longer. So they have opportunities outside of the state and actually also in Canada. There are schools that offer scholarships, and if you have an athlete, you know your typical multi sport athlete, 4.0, who's also a top tier game player, and eSports, they're kind of picking and choosing what schools that they want to go to. So I have a student who fits the bill and all those describers that I just mentioned and he's literally just getting hounded by college recruiters for scholarship opportunities where they're matching half of his tuition and then he can on top of that stack his academic scholarship. So nearly a full ride to Division Two, Division One schools.

Ted Kidd 14:25
I want to make sure we mentioned all the schools in Michigan that offer scholarships for eSports. Sienna Heights University, Jackson College, Alma College, Northwood University, Aquinas College, Davenport University and soon, Michigan Tech.

Danelle Brostrom 14:42
Why are colleges, I mean, and businesses looking for these eSports players.

Ted Kidd 14:48
So, colleges have seats to fill, we, we've just been up to Northwood University to tour their campus, tour the eSports facilities for our playoffs for the fall. And met with their Esports head coach. And he was just saying the university's tuition is down, they have seats to fill, and they're trying different ways to get kids to come to their college. I think in Michigan, we've, we've kind of had this population drain since the, the last recession in 2007 ish. And all the people that moved away took the kids with them. I think it's, it's really had an adverse effect on things like education. So, Northwood is doing anything and everything they can to get kids in those seats and eSports is just the next evolution of trying to entice, you know 10 kids from this population, 10 kids from that population. If you get 10 here 10 they're in a lot of different places, and all of a sudden you've made up for that, that loss.

Dylan Chapman 15:53
And you're pulling from a diverse background of students to, from all over the state, because the students who play eSports transcend different demographics, and they're all interested in the same sorts of things. Usually like STEM related fields. So, those jobs are in high demand, and jobs in computer science and Michigan, there's a huge skill gap when it comes to workers. So trying to entice those kids to come together with other like minded students to become future partners or, or collaborators on the next app or whatever it might be, is what colleges and universities are trying to attract so they could put that quill in their head of alumni that have been successful,

Ted Kidd 16:34
As far as businesses are concerned, I think they've already found out that the, the students that are interested in eSports typically have a stronger background in the STEM, STEAM areas. So they're looking at potential engineers, and maybe even graphic artists, video production people. Some of those people that are creative but have like a solid knowledge of math and science. And let's not forget to mention to that the United States military are doing the same thing. They're, they're actively recruiting eSports students as well.

Dylan Chapman 17:10
And it's got the 21st century skill set that businesses are looking for when it comes to people who are remote, who are working together and problem solving towards a common goal. Being communative being adaptable, all of those things you've learned in game and also translate well into the office space.

Danelle Brostrom 17:29
Quite a few connections to ISTE which we talk about as well in the edtech world. So, is gender equity, an issue, and eSports? And if so, what do you, what are you guys doing to help recruit some diverse people?

Dylan Chapman 17:41
I mean, I think there's definitely a stigma, and a stereotype that your typical gamers a 15 year old boy. But, research shows that men and women of all age groups play games in some capacity. I mean look at your phone, you probably have some game on there that's just a casual type of play. But almost everybody as a gamer, even if they don't know it. Bringing people from that kind of casual play to competitive, is what we try to bridge the divide on. In my program we have quite a few girls, and because you're a female in the esports world you're kind of given an inflated profile when it comes to college recruitment. So I use that as kind of something that says like hey, you're a big fish in a small pond when it comes to being a female in this field because STEM fields also need females at this time too so. It's just a way to connect the dots to say, this is a high demand, high, highly lucrative field of work. And here's some pathways to get you more familiar with...

Ted Kidd 18:41
So in, at the Pinckney eSports program for our fall season we have two girls and are playing out of 16 total students. So there's definitely, gender equity gap that we're seeing. We try to promote the girls as much as possible. Like on social media, especially last year when we had two students that got scholarships to, to colleges, and one of them was a, was a girl. And we did everything we could to make sure that her profile was, was featured on our social media site. Just saying, there are opportunities for, for women in this, in this area. And as a Tech Director, I don't have the skills needed personally to, to know how to bridge that gap and, but I'm always looking for ways to for people to tell me, hey, try this or try that. And I'm very receptive to it, because I know there is a gap there.

Danelle Brostrom 19:39
So, this sounds amazing and already I'm thinking that my, my kids need to do this. Do you, do you need to be a gaming superstar to join the team?

Ted Kidd 19:49
In, in Pinckney, you just have to be a body that shows up and plays. We do have a pay to participate fee, unfortunately, only because our district doesn't fund it out of their general funds. Anybody that's willing, able, and even if they're not able we try to accommodate, things like physical disabilities and handicaps as, as much as possible. So, yes, anybody, anybody can do this. At the lower levels, you know elementary, middle school, the first thing they can do is, is to get involved with Minecraft. I think Minecraft is an excellent entry point for eSports. Minecraft licenses are free for Michigan K-12,

Danelle Brostrom 20:30
Are there any interesting new developments happening with your program or your league that you'd like to share?

Dylan Chapman 20:35
Our playoffs, I'm excited about our playoffs. So we're making networking connections with different universities around the state and our playoffs will be held December 7 at Northwood University. We also have lined up our Spring and Winter playoffs as well at different universities across the state. All of our players are from all across the league are welcome to come and mingle with other students with similar interests, do some casual play and find out who the best in the state are.

Ted Kidd 21:04
We've had a lot of schools that have reached out to us to contact us and they just want to know how to get started. Just yesterday I got a call from, I think, Menominee?

Danelle Brostrom 21:15
Menominie, Yes,

Ted Kidd 21:16
The ISD reached out to me yesterday and we had a pretty good discussion about how all of their School Districts up there could get started in eSports. So it's nice that we're having an impact, not just, you know in the population center of Michigan but up in the Upper Peninsula where, you know, kids might not have the same opportunities available. So, from what I've heard it's the Principals of the high schools that had this conversation, trying to get the ISD to help them. It's nice that the ISD is taking a leadership role to to get things like that started,

Danelle Brostrom 21:48
What advice, did you give them? I'm curious, how do high schools get started with all this because yeah, this is amazing and we should all be doing it.

Ted Kidd 21:55
Depending on what area you want to focus on you, you want to talk to both teachers and technology professionals. It seems like the tech people are needed to, to get things going, to provide the technical expert, expertise. But really, if you want to do this you have to get buy-in from either Superintendent, Athletic Director, Principal. And you have to have those stakeholders kind of on your side, because if they're not, then your programs doomed. Then you have to make sure that you have enough student interest to run a program. Certain schools in Michigan, that have built eSports programs, but can't get the kids to actually show up and play, which is bizarre in my mind, but it has happened. So if you build it, they won't necessarily come.

Dylan Chapman 22:43
I would say first is kind of take the temperature of the school. See if there's an interest for it. If there is, find an advisor who's willing to dedicate a lot of time, and a lot of patience to starting a program. You definitely have to get in touch, like Ted said, with your technical support team because this is a lot of what I'm doing here is out of my skill set. We have a technical support staff member on our high school campus who helps me out almost on a daily basis to jump hurdles with connections, updates, and equipment all the time. Beyond that, organization, communication with the community on what you're doing, and buy-in from the top down,

Ted Kidd 23:22
The final steps would be, make sure you have the equipment or the service to, to run the program, and join a league.

Danelle Brostrom 23:29
How long is the competitive season, what kind of a commitment are we talking about?

Ted Kidd 23:32
So for the MiHSeF League, our seasons are anywhere between six to eight weeks with a playoff. It varies based on the participation we get and the number of divisions that we have to kind of assemble.

Dylan Chapman 23:44
I believe it's eight weeks.

Ted Kidd 23:45
Okay

Dylan Chapman 23:46
So this season we're playing two games, which are Super Smash Brothers Ultimate and Overwatch. We play on Tuesdays and Thursdays. That ran from about October 1 until mid November around that area. And then after Christmas break we're going to have a winter season, that will run from after Christmas break till right before spring break or so and then a spring season that runs from after spring break till just near summer. So different games throughout. Depending on interest we might add more games in. But like Ted said, the length of the season is really determined by the number of participating teams across the state. So schools have had multiple Super Smash Brothers teams and multiple Overwatch teams. It's been going really smooth.

Ted Kidd 24:29
Yeah, for our first season this fall, we had 12 schools participate. Which is incredible when we compare that to other states surrounding us and what they said their numbers were for their first seasons. So in Super Smash Brothers we have 25 teams from those 12 schools. In Overwatch, unfortunately we only have 11 teams. We have one school that didn't want to participate in Overwatch, and that's okay.

Dylan Chapman 24:52
This is our first season of our first year of operation and schools have been signing up as the season's been underway. So I imagine next year we'll have a much better turnout. And even next season with the games that we're playing will have a better turnout as far as number of schools.

Danelle Brostrom 25:08
I keep hearing those same two games being talked about. I keep hearing Super Smash Brothers and Overwatch. What is it about those two games that either coaches are interested in, or kids are interested in or why those two?

Danelle Brostrom 25:17
The kids are definitely interested in Super Smash Brothers right now. It is the hot game. There are not just our league running it but there's tournaments popping up at colleges. Like every other weekend we see colleges running a Super Smash tournament.

Dylan Chapman 25:34
It's a very casual, social game, but it can also be extremely technical. It's like a game that you can play with your grandma, and then a game that you can play with the most professional players. So it appeals to a wide variety of players. And then Overwatch is a team based strategy, kind of capture the flag type of game. Defend the, defend an area kind of game with a lot of communication that's necessary and character types. That game I can see how that is a feeder program into the US military.

Ted Kidd 26:07
The United States Army eSports team has an Overwatch team that, and they're always on Twitter, talking about how to do certain things. They create videos for, for other players. It's really a cool program.

Danelle Brostrom 26:21
What do you hope for in terms of the future of your program or this league?

Dylan Chapman 26:25
I just hope for it to expand further beyond. To incorporate more schools, of course.

Ted Kidd 26:30
Kind of the vision and mission that we have for MiHSeF is to make sure that eSports is something that's viable for Michigan K-12. We have applied for our nonprofit organization status. So we want to make sure that we are able to find sponsorships and partnerships with businesses so that we can provide opportunities for students. Some of the things that we were thinking about we're providing mini grants for schools that can't afford to start eSports. To give them that initial capital to maybe get a few machines and get going. Right now we just have to focus on getting started.

Dylan Chapman 27:07
I'd like to see a middle school program emerge as well if somebody wants to take the reins on that. Work with us to create interest at the middle school level and start building those skill sets so that way we have just, you know, just like the other traditional sports they have middle school football and basketball and baseball, if we can extend that down to the middle school level for eSports that'd be great. The more schools we get, we've got regional play, some interstate play, because, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, they all have eSports leagues as well, and we've been piggybacking off of what works for them to create the league that we have now.

Ted Kidd 27:40
Just because it's a sit down competition, doesn't mean that it's necessarily a event or sport that doesn't include some activity. One of the things that high schools right now are doing is looking at the psychological nature of eSports and, and how to make sure kids are in the right mindset to play. We've been looking at physical fitness programs and regiments with our conditioning coach in Pinckney. Unfortunately, we couldn't do it this year because our Athletic Director told us, Hey your kids need to have physicals in order to do some of this stuff. So right now we just have them kind of walking around the school in between matches just to, you know, kind of get loose, clear their heads.

Dylan Chapman 28:24
Some schools are doing some sort of like, meditative yoga in between sessions. Some schools run kickball tournaments on the weekends to, to balance activity with mental kind of activities. And in gameplay, there's stats out there that show the players heart rates get up into the 120's and their, their blood is pumping and they're excited. So it's not like a couch potato type of thing, it's a very edge of your seat kind of activity. And really containing excitement, and keeping a cool head is part of the challenge of eSports. And that's also a translatable skill into the office place which is trying to keep a cool head while trying to focus on your end result in a stressful environment.

Ted Kidd 29:05
There's a local food pantry in the Pinckney area that we always make sure that we have a fundraiser to benefit them. And it's all about the giving back, type of mentality. Always looking at ways to give back, is something that the eSports community as a whole has done. There's organizations like Gamers for Giving.

Dylan Chapman 29:29
Gamers Outreach, there's a program that started in Saline actually, Saline, Michigan, where gamers go around with portable consoles to the Children's Hospital in Ann Arbor and just play video games with them. So the eSports world is definitely all about giving back, even if they haven't hit this kind of superstar status, it gives players, a platform to make their mark in the world.

Danelle Brostrom 29:53
This is the stuff that I love and this is why I think this podcast is really important, because I feel like some people if they don't understand it they dismiss it. It's, it's just kids playing video games, I don't understand why this is, why this is athletic, or why this is good or, but all the things that the kids are learning while they're playing these games, it's, those are transfer, transferable to any industry, and college and we want the kids to do these kinds of things.

Ted Kidd 30:17
Because of the, the learning that can happen. Having the adults in the room is the important step to make sure that they are getting the things taught to them that they need to be. Simple things like not getting upset when you lose, lose a match. You know, teaching them sportsmanship. Those are the skills that they need to have because if they get upset while they're at work and they break a keyboard or throw a mouse, it could get them fired. So we want to make sure that we, we teach them those skills like they have in any other traditional sport.

Dylan Chapman 30:49
Except for we can also offer digital citizenship skills when communicating virtually with other schools and teams. So, how to communicate on a sportsman like level with other, with other players. And when we have hangups and problems, how to resolve those issues, in a negotiated, compromising way. It's good for the students to see that model by the advisors, and it's also nice to see the students do that.

Ted Kidd 31:11
I think those are the types of skills that you want to promote to kids in your area. That's like the core of why all these schools are doing these things is to teach those skills.

Danelle Brostrom 31:25
I feel like this is about to blow up and you guys have done a ton of work, getting this started in Michigan.

Ted Kidd 31:29
A ton of work is very much an understatement here. There, there has been so much work involved to get this going. It's, it really blows my mind about how much each one of our members schools have done, just getting started. How much our board has done to make this a reality. I give everybody that's involved a ton of credit for just participating, having some input, writing the rules for games, developing a Policy Handbook, driving to different places to have meetings with each other, just so that everybody's on the same page. It's been a lot of work, but it's also been fun.

Dylan Chapman 32:07
And it's been a 100% grassroots effort, based on a nonprofit, not for profit sort of model that's completely focused on student experience and student outcomes.

Danelle Brostrom 32:16
Larry's handing me questions as we speak, is the,

Dylan Chapman 32:20
Thanks Larry

Danelle Brostrom 32:20
is there MHSAA involvement with eSports?

Dylan Chapman 32:23
They're kind of sit and watch sit and wait, sort of pattern right now. What they would want to do if they were to do something like this, is they would probably try to get somebody to break the ice on this and do exactly what we're doing. We tried to write our rules and policies in line with their rules and policies so that way when they do take it on that there's no, you know, reinventing, what eSports is so that way the transitions just really smooth,

Ted Kidd 32:50
We've actually reached out to the MHSAA to gauge their interest and tell them about what we're doing. There is the reality that we're facing that they may not want to ever do eSports. And in which case, we're, you know, building the foundation for high school eSports in Michigan right now, and that wouldn't be a bad thing. It also wouldn't be a bad thing if they did take it over, as long as we were able to have some input and provide the framework and structure to allow that to happen.

Dylan Chapman 33:22
Because we, we kind of know what works now. So they definitely be seeking guidance from somebody who's been through it already. So we're definitely willing to work with them whenever they're ready to take on eSports as part of the Michigan High School Athletics Association umbrella.

Ted Kidd 33:37
We just want to get people involved. We want to get schools involved. We want to get students excited about this, and it gives them the opportunity to, you know, learn. Because then the opportunity to have potential scholarships in college.

Dylan Chapman 33:53
I've seen, not only do they have to hold themselves to the academic standards of eligibility requirements as far as what our schools policy is based on but their attitude towards school I've seen it change. I've seen their focus pick up, because I've built that relationship with them through eSports. And then I'm sure that's translating and other classes as well.

Ted Kidd 34:14
Perry High School in Perry, Michigan, Zach Gardner runs that program there, along with his desktop technician, Josh, and they have a really high free and reduced rate in their school. So one of the things that they've done is they've gotten a after school meal program for their kids.

Dylan Chapman 34:33
Which is federally funded and fully supported to pay the staff and buy the food, and now they're serving breakfast, lunch and dinner at their school. And they have a great after school activity which is eSports.

Ted Kidd 34:46
He's also been able to acquire some Title 4 funds for his program to actually buy things. Just because he has a high free and reduced population doesn't mean that his kids can't have all the nice things that every other school district can and should have. So he's been buying gaming chairs and upgrading his computers, buying gaming monitors. With a high free and reduced population, you have kids that just don't care about school. They're more interested in, in figuring out where their next meal is coming from. They might have situations at home that they don't want to have to deal with but have to deal with anyway. So he's trying to make it an atmosphere where kids can come and be in a safe environment,

Dylan Chapman 35:25
Make friends, learn how to deal with frustrations in a controlled environment. It's great.

Ted Kidd 35:29
And also, get them involved in school so that their grades are high enough to actually compete. He's had a couple of kids that were failing that he's just told them, Hey, you have to, you know, meet the minimum requirements to be part of this and thankfully they did. And I think that's a testament to how eSports can affect kids.

Dylan Chapman 35:48
if eSports can help a kid graduate high school, you know, mission accomplished. If they can get a scholarship on top of that,

Ted Kidd 35:53
Icing on the cake.

Danelle Brostrom 35:54
Exactly.

Dylan Chapman 35:55
I don't want to jinx myself but I haven't really seen the downside of eSports yet.

Danelle Brostrom 35:59
So where do we go if we want to learn more about MiHSeF or we want to get started?

Ted Kidd 36:03
MiHSeF website is mihsef.org. You can email info@mihsef.org, and somebody will answer any questions. All of our rules, there's some technical documents, policy handbooks.

Dylan Chapman 36:18
How to, how to start a eSports team PowerPoint presentation on there.

Ted Kidd 36:23
We're developing more and more documents as resources for schools. But the website is really the hub and spoke of MiHSeF right now, where you find any and all the information that we have.

Danelle Brostrom 36:36
Awesome! What is your Twitter for those of us who need to know?

Ted Kidd 36:39
I think it's just @MiHSeF, very easy.

Danelle Brostrom 36:41
Perfect. Honestly guys, MiHSeF and, and in your work you're providing some amazing opportunities to Michigan's kids so, thank you. This is awesome.

Dylan Chapman 36:49
We're glad to do it.

Ted Kidd 36:51
Definitely.

Larry Burden 36:51
So in closing, follow us on Facebook and Twitter @tcapsloop

Danelle Brostrom 36:54
@brostromda

Larry Burden 36:55
Subscribe to the podcast on podbean, iTunes, Stitcher, Tune-in, downcast, overcast, the Google Play Store and Spotify or wherever else you get your ear candy, leave a review we love the feedback. Thanks for listening and inspiring.

Danelle Brostrom 37:12
That was Fan-tas-stic.

 

Intro music provided by Poddington Bear

Transcribed by https://otter.ai