Education
The 2020 election was simultaneously historic, controversial, unconventional, and consequential. In this episode of Beyond the Present podcast Daniel and Pouya discuss the events of the election, shed light on some of the biggest myths and rumors surrounding the election and discuss its consequences for the next 8 years not only in the United States but also all over the world.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
trump, election, world, people, biden, america, president, joe biden, fact, vote, cycle, nations, pandemic, fortunately, years, donald trump, states, history, benefiting, terms
SPEAKERS
Pouya LJ, Dan
Pouya LJ 00:09
Hello, and welcome back to yet another let's talk edition of the BTP podcast here with Daniel Mulligan. How's it going, Dan?
Dan 00:16
What a man, buddy? How are you how's it going live could not have been any better. I mean, we're just post the election and Biden officially won the election today. As of now all the basically almost all the votes have been counted. So life is amazing and more important, I'm so glad to be here with you, after a while because we were super busy involved with the election and a few other things. And now we're back for another let's talk edition at this, you know, amazing moment right now. So I'm pretty happy and couldn't be, you know, happy to be here with you talking about all the cool things when I share hopefully with our listeners.
Pouya LJ 00:49
Absolutely. I've been eagerly waiting to start recording this episode. And hopefully a couple of days after the recording, the audience will hear it. Maybe even sooner. But we we sit on this for a few few days, I think 11 days since the day of the election to to talk about it mainly because so first of all the few five for four or five few days, obviously nothing was clear. And there was a mayhem after that. So we're gonna talk about all of that, obviously. But now we got a chance. So yes, officially, Biden seems to be the president elect, although Donald Trump really doesn't like that and keeps coming up with excuses. So today, we're basically what the intention is to talk about one of the impacts of all of this around the world, and what are the impacts of Trump being Trump for, for democracy and the US political system as a whole? And who, who better than to talk about this with, then you? Okay, so what is your general take on all of this very broadly?
Dan 01:51
First of all, I think this was one of the best elections the US ever experienced, probably the most historic election that we can think of, because there was a lot at stake at stake during this election, not only for America, but for the entire world, including what it really means to, you know, live in a democratic society. So I think that this election also was, in a way, very unique in that it took place during a pandemic. Now, of course, there are states that has experienced other tough elections during even civil wars. But this one really happened at a time where America was the most divided, and the kind of was the most hurt. And the pandemic had damaged, basically, the economy far, basically too much for it to actually be ignored by the voters. But then again, America was also facing with a lot of other issues, including a racial, basically a crisis, where we felt that despite all of our advancements in the modern technologies, and in other areas of life, culturally, and educationally, we're still seeing this racism running rampant. And that's where the Black Lives Matters movement actually got started this year, along with a focus on bringing into awareness what it really means to be a black man in America, and what it means for other minorities, including, let's say, for example, the Muslims, let's say, middle easterns, let's say those who come from minority backgrounds, people of color. So this was a, I think, a turning point during this election, where Americans decided that once and for all, they're not going to stand for a lot of the values that they escaped from, they or their parents or their grandparents, when they moved to the United States, after all the US was this nation made by immigrants, and people who went there. Basically, generations ago, they all wanted one thing to live in a free society, where they are not judged by the color of their skin. But ultimately, having seen what has happened so far in this election, and all the ups and downs really was probably one of those dramatic elections, even more so than what we had earlier with george bush and Al Gore, and the year 2000, basically, and how it changed almost everything for the world. But fortunately, we did not engage with so much election fraud, because this time, fortunately, as was announced by almost all experts, this was indeed the most secure election because there were so many threats. I mean, Trump right now is accusing fraud for the election, not knowing that, basically, the US officials were quite prepared for this, given the fact that in 2018, or 2016, it was Trump who benefited from a lot of these, basically, voter fraud, if you will, in that many nations, allegedly, Russia especially got involved with trying to involve and influence basically, the election and the results in favor of Donald Trump, obviously. So now, of course, somebody who is accused of that background, obviously would then assume that yeah, this is like what however he does it, so probably there's got to be some sort of, you know, fraud going on. But the fact of the matter is that Trump like all the other basically Republicans and the right wing extremists will have to come to, you know, an agreement on this and to have to somehow acknowledge the fact that they were defeated by a large majority. As of today, as of right now, almost 78 million Americans have voted for Joe Biden, this is a historical number, this is unbelievable, unheard of, and just quite frankly, a clear sign of victory, not just by the left or by the liberals. But you know, I think by almost all modern population who are rather sensible, educated, and they understand that we need a change, and that by going back through time, and trying to legalize, I don't know, things like coal mining, getting out of, you know, very important. Basically, PACs such as the Paris Paris Agreement and other things, we cannot have a good future. And which is why I personally, think of this election be one of the best ever, because it really happened at a time where change was needed. And fortunately, the Americans will actually have decided, and they made their voice heard, despite the fact that this was a pandemic, despite the fact that Trump wanted to create so many limitations for those who wanted to vote by mail, given the fact that he could not leave their houses. Now, we've seen the results. And fortunately, we're happy to announce that as of now, Mr. Biden is no longer basically a former Vice President, but the president elect, unfortunately, by January 20, we're going to actually see a lot of changes that are currently being done gradually, basically, go out of the way as Joe Biden will hopefully on that day be inaugurated. And we'll we'll hopefully, we'll see a great future for not only America, but the rest of the world.
Pouya LJ 06:35
Wow, that's great. Yeah, I mean, there has been a lot of problems. But before we go further, we go into everything. But do you think you will, by Hammond, Trump, do you think he will ever officially concede?
Dan 06:47
Well, legally speaking, Trump is not legally obliged to concede, nor is he really obliged to attend the inauguration of basically, Joe Biden. So he's not legally obliged, and given the fact that he's not they live lives, and he's a businessman, which means he probably will not do anything that he's not legally obliged. Especially if it's not gonna, you know, serve him or serve his image, he probably will not. But the fact of the matter is that he cannot simply just barricade himself in the White House, say, Oh, I don't care, you guys, you all have the fraud. It's all not true. He can't do that anymore. Because I really believe that Donald Trump was a reality TV president. And we have seen in the past four years, what he's done was nothing more than just a traumatic experience that was in no way presidential. And he took his, you know, reality TV mindset from the, you know, the TV show, apprentice, you're fired, I'm gonna fire everybody here now. And he actually recently even fired Esper, which was just incredibly, you know, just preposterous to even you know, think about that. But ultimately, we have seen him as a man who was in deep need for attention to create this, you know, these series of dramas. And he literally, I think he even saw his presidency as a TV show. In many cases, he didn't, he didn't actually produce certain, basically posters and certain photos of him, showing things that were very cinematic and not so much political in nature. I mean, if you just take a look at the back of the past four years, who would have made to take all these photos that are so cinematic, like, Oh, yeah, the sanctions are coming baby, to be followed on the next episode. So like, he perhaps, you know, thought of that, basically, I don't know how he did it. I know that he's definitely, you know, was a probably a bug in the system. Because there was an I personally was so much involved in this because I really wanted some answers. Because if Donald Trump would have won another term, that would have meant that he's the kind of person that is fit, and ready to lead, you know, versus America. And that is simply from my point of view, quite frankly, unacceptable, because that's not the kind of man that represents anything American basically, especially in the, you know, global community that I am a part of. So for that reason, now that he's a one term president, this clearly shows to the whole world, that Donald Trump was not the system. He was a bug in the system that fortunately, was quickly removed, because if he would have won another term, he was no longer a bug in the system, but the system itself. But now the whole world knows that no one can lead, like Trump and get a second term. It's just not possible. Although given his background and what he thinks he could do with his power, he perhaps had his own delusions of what he could do as a dictator, as probably the first stickler in the US, you know, history. But fortunately, the Constitution is much stronger than that. And it's, you know, written in a way that makes sure that a president cannot be a king or a dictator. And fortunately, that's what we're going to see so far. And despite all of his allegations and allegations regarding what has happened, almost always legal experts have mentioned that the election was fully monitor. And for the two reasons, because number one, the US officials were on edge the entire time, because of the threat of hacking, that, you know, was basically, you know, always in the corner, as you probably know, the 2016 election was very, very, basically, you know, controversial and that we thought there were so many nations were involved with this, mainly Russia to try to hack the election and try to change the results. So for that reason, this time around, he was officials were quite aware, on edge ready to, you know, tackle the problems of any possible intrusion, which is why this was dubbed the most secure election in the US history, given the fact that we knew there were a lot of threats. We wanted to make sure that, you know, this is not going to be a, you know, major issue and that many nations do not influence the election, basically, which is why this was done. And obviously, even like, if you look at like social media, many of Trump's tweets were actually being censored for the first time in the US history. And I believe that where we're seeing a president's tweets are being actually censored by, you know, let's be Twitter. And the reason was because he was propagating certain, basically false information, and allegations that are simply not true, nor based on facts. So because of this, not only I would, this was one of the most secure elections in the US history. I think it's one of the best, I after few election, basically, I got a text from one of my followers, like, then I heard there were some dead people voting. Well, first of all, were you there yourself? Did you examine the votes? Did you check the names and the signatures, I mean, there were so many mail those actually got discredited because of their, you know, signature. I mean, let's be honest, voting by mail is not an ideal way to vote, because you actually have a much higher chance of not being able to vote than being able to vote. Because even if your signature does not match what you've already submitted, you are not going to be able to, you know, make your voice heard. So you're always going to be counted, it's going to be discredited. So in such a system where even a slight tweak in your signature can make your vote basically, dismissed, you think that's a dead person can vote, I mean, just really makes no sense, in my opinion. So all of these allegations are false. This was the most secure election, the US history, as proven by all the experts, and not by those who have won or lost, but by those who are in the middle, those whose job it is to control and, you know, watch over the election, basically. So there are a lot of rumors that that people voting, I don't know, people voting five 5000 times, as was mentioned by one of Trumps, basically lawyers, but as of now, almost under the legal cases have actually gone through. And I'm not even sure if Trump really wants to go with recounts, because if he does, yes, of course, spend a lot of don't, you know, donation money, although when my friend said like, Dan just wants to get the money and just, you know, keep it for himself. He's not gonna actually go for the recount. We'll see. We'll see how it goes. But as of now, everything is quite clear. And the whole world knows that Joe Biden is the 46th President knighted states, most statesman around the world have already congratulated Joe Biden. Though, of course, there are always exceptions, putting being one of them, for the obvious reasons. And even like many such leaders, who were vehemently against a democratic approach, and who were, you know, strong supporters of, basically, Donald Trump, including Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, and the King of Saudi Arabia, they both have already congratulated Joe Biden. This means that even those nations who are benefiting from those very few nations, because Trump has already lost a lot of allies, because very few nations who are benefiting supposedly benefiting from Trump's preposterous policies themselves have already congratulated basically Joe Biden, and have realized that Donald Trump is now going to be in the White House longer. So that is why it was that this election is pretty much, you know, a pretty much over and we know who the President is, we know who the next President will be. And obviously, we couldn't be any happier than this.
Pouya LJ 14:06
Yeah, well, make sense. Now, I you mentioned Yes. I mean, obviously 78 million people voted for Biden. But we also cannot really discount the fact that 72 million people voted for Trump, and maybe for good, you're right, that they had. And I think it's really Paramount that. I mean, you're obviously lots of speculation as why that is, I mean, some are his base, but I don't think like he has 70 million base. I think there's definitely some sort of other, you know, reasoning behind it. And a lot of people were attributing that to lack of appeal of the opposition, candidate, Biden to those specific people for various reasons from his political agenda, his age, etc. So I think first of all, it's Paramount that we, as you know, but I mean, liberals and democrats on their own, but as a you know, as a society, we need to understand that appeal that Trump had a lack of appeal, rather than the opposition had. What are your thoughts personally on that?
Dan 15:10
Well, first of all, please, you know, bear in mind that this election was one of the most, you know, perhaps one of the, if not the largest collection of the US history, and that we had the most number of participants, if you compare this to other elections, so once you have almost everybody voting in, especially, given the fact that there were, you know, mailing voting allowed on almost all states, there are, of course, exceptions, and there are different terms and conditions, but generally was allowed. So that's one of the reasons why Trump actually got more votes this time around, then, you know, there during the last election, but the fact of the matter is that America is divided. And I'm really happy that in this situation, Biden is going to be our next person, because he was actually not so much. So left, as opposed to many other candidates who are running the primaries, because Joe Biden stands for, from my point of view, middle slightly tilted towards the left, which is why we need him right now. to somehow people, you know, bridge the gap between the two sides. And he says America, because let's be honest, America is now very divided. It's a clear fact. But the reason that it is happening right now, it is not because of the government itself, or the system, but rather, because the fact that we are going through a transitional cycle, you see, the US has already gone through two major transitional cycles in his history. And because we are now entering a new phase in the American life, and of course, in the global community as a whole, because we are now at a moment where we have a major clash between those who have been left behind, and those who are making it, which is why states like New York, and California have generally mainly been blue states, you know, for the most part, because they are well off there, you know, they are quite rich and highly educated. But states basically where, of course, I was very, you know, surprised when I heard Florida actually went back to Trump again, but certain states, we are seeing, basically the quality of life degradation. So for that reason, this class is quite normal. And by the way, I don't believe that this division is going to go anytime, go away anytime soon, even after you know, Biden's the president, because this is a cycle that America has to go through. And I believe that this cycle probably is going to get a little bit worse. And I think that the worst America will not be even now in the next few years or after pandemic, but the US will be at its worst position, I believe in the year 2028. So the real challenge that we will be facing is going to be the next eight years actually. And only after 2028 as the US enters the next cycle, only then we will hopefully see more stability. Why? Because now we're living in a world especially like let's look into us right now, where we have so much basically, disparity, and there is a lot of problems with in terms of how we could you know, people could make a living. So the world has become more modern. But not everybody is necessarily suitable for a lifestyle that is designed to adapt itself with its technologies, but education. So now we are seeing a major fights among those who have been left behind, and those who are not financially as well off, versus those who are making it. And that's how, by the way Trump won the last election because he tried to appeal to those people who felt they're left behind. Let's say the guy says, I'm a truck driver, or I used to be a miner and I cannot learn how to use the computer, well, I don't want to go back to school, I don't care about America's commitment to global warming, I just want to make some you know, make some money and make ends meet. So for such people with a, you know, short sighted perspective, they are going to demonize those who are perhaps have, you know, got a little bit better. And they're simply not going to care about many of the US commitments to the international community, all they care about is to get their job back and to get back on track, which is why we are seeing this struggle. But if you look at history, not only of America, but the world, you realize that whenever we have this division among those who have been left behind, and those who are making it, history tends to favor those who are forward oriented, much more so than those who are backward oriented. Because in throughout the history, all civilizations, once one group took the sign of the future, and one too excited the past, it was always the one that sets out a future that was actually in the end victorious and managed to change society, whether we go back to the Roman Empire, whether we go back to, for example, Renaissance era in Europe, it's always been a force in the EU in the US, this has happened already twice, basically, as we've gone through this. So in the third, transitional secondary states, we inevitably have to face with that struggle. And that friction caused by the right mainly those who are supporting the right wing, for keeping America in its current position, as the rest of America tried to take America forward and the struggle as we've seen so far has been manifested in a variety of ways. And it will continue if you think that this election means it's over, you are mistaken, because this is just the beginning of a lot and a series of fights and struggles that us has to face as it has already faced twice in the past, to go through the third cycle. And once hopefully, through good leadership, we go through this third cycle, and the US is made more equal more fair, and people are ready to take part in you know, most of our rights to take part in a new economy and a new world, then hopefully, we will enter the prosperous United States, which hopefully will be around the year 2032 2032. And by then we'll see a very, very different world, both in terms of you know, what happens the US and geopolitically with our rivals, including China, including Russia, and Europe, of course, and many other things. So for me, personally, I don't see this victory as the end, I see this as the beginning of the end. And that end is the third cycle. And this is going to take about eight years. So if you think that things are gonna get easier, just wait a little bit, just a couple of years, and you're gonna see what tension really means. However, given the fact that this has been done twice already, I'm very confident this is going to be also eventually passed. And as we entered the 2030s, hopefully, the US will then be a far more unified nation. And that'll Of course, benefiting the entire world, I believe.
Pouya LJ 21:20
All right, so what I hear you say is buckle up. I'm just kidding.
Dan 21:24
That's exactly what we should do. Guys, if you think this is over. just just just grab some stuff. I don't know, get get ready, because this is just the beginning of the action. Actually.
Pouya LJ 21:33
That's a, that's encouraging. Yeah, especially
Dan 21:36
Well, certainly for those who are living outside the US. So for example, actually curious, because I'm clearly clearly sure about this matter that basically, Justin Trudeau was so much anti Trump, I mean, I love to analyze, like his body language and the meetings with Trump during the NAFTA agreements, and like the way he would like, yeah, thank you, Trump. So like, I would like I found there was just so much distrust, and so much, you know, even hatred towards each other. But right now, what is the perspective of let's say, I don't know, the Canadians regarding the American, you know, election? What are what are you guys saying? Actually?
Pouya LJ 22:16
Um, I don't know. That's a very good question. I'm, obviously I didn't survey people, but based on my personal experience, and things that I hear around, I think Canada, actually, obviously, very culturally, like the rest of the West, and even the world is very impacted by the US. But I think they're the divide, not to the extreme that the US is experiencing. But I think that divide along the cultural lines and thought process exists also in Canada. I mean, there were obviously people who were like individuals, not politicians, per se, but individuals who were in favor and define of Trump, maybe maybe less in terms of proportionality than in the US, but that clearly that divide existed here. But you're right, like, obviously, Trudeau is a different character. And he definitely didn't like Trump, especially because of his policies. I mean, I mean, I
Dan 23:12
named one international leader who actually like Trump, I cannot think of like maybe like one or two. And that's just probably because of luck. Because he almost literally dissed everyone, all the, you know, global leaders. So I'm very glad that he will be soon gone, because, as you probably know, I work in international community, I work in multiple countries. And what I've seen is the image of America being tarnished and damaged in the past four years. And, I mean, I was like, incredible. You see, you know, things like we go to Germany, you see, for example, are using Donald Trump's basically photo in their bathroom. And it's basically like, you pretty much have to, you know, do the deeds while looking at his face. And as you know, basically, you know, look around, so you're seeing that, and like in Europe, Europe was extremely against Trump, because of all the things they did against Europe. The same thing, of course, applies to the Middle East, although there were some exceptions. But mostly it was negative, basically, Canada was severely hurt, so was Mexico. And I cannot think of so many nations who actually benefit from Trump or even light him, which is why I'm so glad because of In fact, my major area of activity is International Business and Commerce. So seeing the fact that we're going to see a lot less tension internationally, although, of course, the episode with China, thanks to Trump will still stay there and probably will be here for the next eight years, until the US can first leave that, you know, third cycle. But still, I'm very happy to know that the international basically community will now be a lot more stable in the fact that the power that comes with the White House generally has basically white effects and it could reach basically almost all over the world and if you have an idiot as the commander in chief Things to get a little bit dangerous. And if you have an idiot as an international policymaker, that could lead to a lot of problems. So fortunately, I'm very glad that at least an international community, we're going to now see a shift in the way America is perceived. And of course, as the policies get enhanced over time, we're going to see hopefully, more improvement, although, as I've already mentioned, and I'm, I've already predicted the election correctly, almost everybody around me said that Trump is the winner. I've been repeatedly saying since July 3, and Vine is the winner, and he was my next prediction. Basically, first, number one, keep an eye out for who's going to be our next president. Basically, it's gonna be any transition between vice president or president at some point, perhaps, because I think that the United States, it's time for the US to actually have its first female president. And the second thing I would like to predict right now is about what will things what things will lead to because, as I already mentioned, we are in the phase, we have to go through this cycle. And that, you know, transition is going to be the most difficult that at this very moment, given the fact that now the division is quite clear. And because of this, we're going to see a lot of tension. So the US is going to be affected tremendously by a major inner conflicts for the next eight years, most of which will be caused by this division. However, for those of you who are perhaps going to listen to us for three years, five years from now, as the US will face with that crisis, like oh, my gosh, the world is coming to an end, just like the last election, you probably panic a little bit, I'm telling you, right now, if you perhaps got the chance to let us back in a couple of years from now. And you were in the middle of that crisis, please do enter, the batch shall pass as well, because this cycle is predictable, economically, politically, and socially. So we will go through that phase as well. And hopefully things will get better. Much better. Of course, by the time we reach 2028, and we're going to have basically the next election. So for now, just this is my prediction for the next eight years. Obviously, it's still gonna be much better. But there's a lot of work to be done. And of course, we will have to face with a lot of challenges ahead. But I'm pretty sure that America is fit to deal with that challenge. And hopefully, it'll be better for all of us.
Pouya LJ 27:11
All right. I know that that sounds interesting. And I mean, obviously, there's a lot to be said about all of this. And I'm sure we're going to discuss that maybe not not as my main topic, but as an intro to other conversations that we have a catch up on the world events. And we're going to talk more about this. But before we leave, is there anything that you want to talk about that we left behind, didn't talk about?
Dan 27:36
Well, first of all, Pouyjix is good, you know, talk to you, basically. And generally, today was a great topic. And I'm very happy that Joe Biden is now the president elect, because we could not have possibly imagined what damage he would have caused. If we had to go through that third cycle with Trump as the president, it would have led to disastrous consequences, because in that situation where the two sides are going at each other, we need a leader who can actually calm both sides down. And of course, Biden will be the best leader. Some people are talking about his age. There's a reason why he is the President is not just the fact that he's the Vice President of Barack Obama, that age will itself play a role in our next election in 2024. And hopefully, it'll lead to some further development in knighted States of America, in terms especially with respect to you know, female rights and what women can do in politics. But ultimately, we discussed mainly, the issue of whether or not this election was fair. And as we've said many times, that when the session was fair, it was the most secure and most reliable election, probably in the US history. So to Donald Trump's dismay, this election was fair, it is over it is done. Biden is the 46 presidents and Trump's right now, teams are trying their best are trying to fight tooth and nail to get this thing through. But that's pretty much from my point of view, it's nothing more than trying to say face, and I have no problem with that. I think everybody has the right to try to save their face. And I think that's precisely what Trump has in mind. It doesn't have to concede he doesn't have to attend the, you know, integration of Joe Biden, but for the American people, and for the, you know, international community around the world, for all of our listeners all over the world, they should know that this election was fair, it was secure, it was reliable. And it was a concrete message sent to the White House and to the world, that America will not tolerate dictatorial leaders or will not tolerate anything that is not American democratic, or that could somehow go against, you know, the well being of the entire global community because America has a has a role here. America has a responsibility. There are kids right now listen to us. We're living in countries that are ruled and governed by dictators. There are people in this, you know, in this world who are living in countries where they had their president for 25 years. There are now people in the streets of Belarus, who are still fighting for the rights to for their for their right to actually have their own president elected. There are people you know, in Eastern Europe, they're people that middle east there are people all over the world who look at America as an example. And it's America's job to show the world that democracy works. And that well as much as never, ever the best basically. And never a perfect system of governance is probably the worst except for all the others. And that is why it's best for us to adopt true democracy and allow the people at basically to make their voice heard and, you know, show and send the message of democracy to all over the world so that hopefully someday, we will not have to see things like what we've seen in Belarus or other countries where people are have no they can't, cannot rely on the results of their elections. And hopefully, this is going to be a good message for all of us all over the world.
Pouya LJ 30:53
And on that note, we come to the end of our today's talk. I hope everybody enjoyed and thank you, Dan, for joining us again, my pleasure, buddy. And thank you all for listening. I hope you enjoyed it and I hope you got informed. Please let us know if you have any thoughts or comments in the comment section. And until a later episode.
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