Education
One of the biggest drawbacks of the coronavirus pandemic has been the psychological toll of dealing with the uncertainties of this health hazard along with all the social and financial limitations that it could bring about. As a results we are seeing an increase in the number of depressions and suicides during this tough period. On this program Daniel and Pouya discuss the issue of depression and suicide during the pandemic and offer solutions on how to effectively prevent or manage both. The advices given here are not meant to replace the those of mental health professionals and if you are suffering from symptoms of depression or suicidal thoughts make sure to seek professional help as soon as possible.
Photo by Jonathan Rados on Unsplash
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SUMMARY KEYWORDS
pandemic, people, depression, extroverted, nations, introverted, extroverts, seminar, pressure, harder, problems, psychological toll, active, suicide, airbnb, world, challenge, life, literally, social
SPEAKERS
Pouya LJ, Dan
Pouya LJ 00:09
Hello, and welcome back ladies and gentlemen to yet another episode of the b2b podcast joined as always with Daniel Mulligan, how's it going, buddy?
Dan 00:16
What's up, buddy? How's it going good to be here with you for yet another awesome podcast. Let's talk addition beyond the present here with you man life is great. Fortunately, we're hitting a lot of great news worldwide regarding the progress towards the basically the coronavirus pandemic right now worldwide, particularly with respect to the you know, vaccination because the fact that Pfizer and basically vaccine and a few others were somehow kind of slow to move into to transfer to different countries because of you know, the all the temperature requirements. Now, just today, it was announced that the Sputnik V, the Russian vaccine actually is more than 91% effective. And as you probably know, that was basically made with the older technologies, which means it doesn't require any specific equipment to be transferred, it can just be moved around by a simple refrigerator anywhere around the world. And that is going to make it much faster and supply vaccine to more developing nations or poor nations around the world to accelerate the process of getting out of this goddamn pandemic. So that was a very good news overall, of course, in the same country, we're getting some other bad news about the politics, but then again, politics is rarely a happy place for most people, right. So generally, life is great in terms of business, gradually, the world is somehow coming to terms with the pandemic, we're gradually seeing improvements in terms of employment numbers all around the world, or at least in those nations that I'm currently active in. So overall, it's been great. And the hope that this pandemic is soon going to at least be alleviated and eventually conquered hopefully, by the end of the year, is just probably the best news we've gotten so far and couldn't be any happier.
Pouya LJ 01:51
No, absolutely. That's true. It's it's been it's been devastating here. And it's continues to be and that's great news to hear that there there are being things are being facilitated towards vaccination in a variety of countries, not just to developing the developed countries, but also the developing countries. However, in the meantime, we are still in the midst of the pandemic and to talk which brings us to today's topic, which has people dealing with depression and suicide during this pandemic, because a variety of Yeah, from variety of reasons, from the lack of activity, perhaps to not being able to contact with others, loss of jobs and economic hardships, caused people to retreat mentally, perhaps, to a degree, depressed, and the worst case is, unfortunately, commit suicide. Now, what are your thoughts very broadly on this topic, during this pandemic?
Dan 02:50
First of all, what a great topic you pick Pooja x for this show, I agree with you completely. And the reasons are multitude when it comes to the reasons why we are seeing higher numbers of depression and extremely higher numbers of suicide, which is just unprecedented, basically. But then again, as you put it out yourself, it definitely does make sense. I mean, you would definitely expect such things to happen in this current situation, given the fact that the pandemic has pretty much made it impossible to be human. I mean, what makes us human, I was watching a speech by Chancellor Merkel. And despite the fact that she has been quite harsh, basically, with the restrictions, which I think she made the right decision, because Germany was getting out of control. And she made a lot of basically new sweeping rules to make sure that people are staying at home. And she was in one of her speeches actually was saying that, oh, all the things that we have done, is actually making us less human. So she admitted it openly. And I really admire her courage for that, too, as a global leader to come and say that, she said that all the things we say we should not be doing are the things that we should technically be doing to be healthy and happy. I mean, physical contact with those around us getting close, being social, communicating frequently, leaving the house being physically active, moving around, eating well, and above all, not always panicking and being anxious. Oh my gosh, I'm going to talk I'm going to tell you this right now, how to get the virus. Literally, I was in a seminar yesterday. Of course, we conduct this seminar, under the strict rules of the basically health guidelines to make sure that first of all, the number of attendants were kept limited. And secondly, maintenance major, everybody wears masks and have the distance. And in that seminar, we actually talked about a similar topic. And ultimately, a lot of our attendance set like I am just my biggest problem isn't the goddamn virus. It's the psychological toll that it has had on my life. Now, in the same seminar we took, we took a survey and we realized, generally this pandemic has hurt the extroverted population far more severely than the introverted ones. I mean, like, we were just we ask people, so which ones in this class for example, or this environment are more likely to be introverted? We collect You know the results, who is going to be like extroverted, we've got the results. And realize the ones who reported to be more extroverted are the ones ironically, who find it almost impossible to deal with one of our tenants, they're like, you know what I've been doing this for like, I'm when I wouldn't when it first happened, I told my husband, this is going to be like, oh, a couple of months, maximum, maybe two, three months. And I just can't go any further. I'm just literally done with this. And obviously, that pressure and that psychological toll isn't just on that lady within our center. But it's basically describes perfectly what is happening to billions of people around the world right now. It's the same level of pressure and anxiety. So I guess the biggest tool that it had on us, other than the fact that we can't really do a lot of things we normally have always taken for granted. But it's more about that sense of, you know, presence, always worrying if I'm going to get infected or not always having to watch any one of our attendance. Like, look at my hands. I've been watching this every friggin 1015 minutes, and I'm done. So all of these things are going to create problems. And this is definitely going to affect us negatively in terms of our mental health and psychological well being. So obviously, as you pointed out, basically, this issue is tremendous. It has affected all of us, some of us more than the others. I mean, those of our listeners right now who tend to self report themselves as extroverts probably have been hurt, hit hit the hardest. And ironically, we've had a couple of introverts in our audience who said, Hey, I love the pandemic, it's the best time ever, I don't have to leave the house, I can work in my pajamas. And I can simply read books all the time, I don't see anyone's faces Oh, normal. So it really depends, I guess, on the person you're talking to. Right. So definitely, this pandemic has not been as harsh on certain people, especially, I guess, on those who come from wealthier backgrounds. I mean, those who are are basically wealthy in general, who have had assets before the pandemic. Now, most of them are richer in most nations that I'm currently active. And actually, whether it's those who work in real estate, those who have, you know, a couple of stocks. Now, you remember that games, basically stopped stocks, guys, I mean, that was incredible, basically. But what I'm saying is, those who have been wealthier headed much better off. Unfortunately, those who were middle class or lower middle class, they are the ones who are hit the hardest, because not only they have to face with all of the natural psychological impacts of the pandemic, they have even lost their jobs, many of them and they don't have even money. So on top of all of that, now, they have financial problems, too. And as you probably know, in the field management, we say, no crisis ever occurs alone, and always is followed by other crises, because one thing leads to another and this continues, right. So because of all of this, now, we are seeing a tremendous impact on the psychological well being of people around the world. And of course, it is a mental health crisis. And we need to help people to find their way around and to hopefully make it to the end of the pandemic, basically intact.
Pouya LJ 08:09
I couldn't agree more. Yeah. So that there's There are multitudes of why somebody would face challenges mentally, perhaps, you mentioned a lot of them, of course, economics. pressures could be another, you know, potential problems that people are facing. And sometimes that takes a toll. Now, to a degree, especially, so it's really, I guess, it really depends on the causes of the mental pressure and depression, perhaps, but to a degree, it might really not be avoidable for for some people under some circumstances, or it might be for others, perhaps to a degree. But either way, I think there should be then there are ways to, you know, minimize this pressure, just mental pressure. And I want to put a disclaimer here, neither myself or Daniel are not, you know, experts in this subjects. We're not licensed
Dan 09:04
or not certified healthcare professionals. These are meant purely to inform you, and it's not going to replace the advice of a professional psychiatrists.
Pouya LJ 09:13
Perfect. Yeah, that's what I was going with this. So just if you do have problems, please seek professional help. But we're merely here to give our own proper advice based on our expertise. But no licenses here. So I just had to put that disclaimer out there. But from your perspective, what are the things people especially extroverted people, you like yourself, because you're one of them? who's dealing fairly with this challenge? Oh, and people who have, you know, financial difficulties, what would you How would you, you know, advise the people of these two categories mainly, for sure,
Dan 09:49
but I'm actually I'm gonna give you both answers in a moment because I know my answer, but you on the other hand, I'm sure also all of our listeners know about this that you are at slightly more on the introverted sign and I'm more on the shorter side. So I'm actually curious first about you. Did you really feel that toll and pressure on you there in this basically, period? I mean, how do you feel as somebody who's more introverted than extroverted?
Pouya LJ 10:13
Right? So, this is actually a funny question you ask because especially being around somebody like yourself, yes, I'm definitely much more introverted than your. So I always consider myself more like, Yeah, probably in the middle, but edging towards the introverted side. But actually, this when they make happen, and I did, then I realize how much I in fact, am extroverted. Because I started missing people. I
Dan 10:37
was like, No, I just want to see people.
Pouya LJ 10:40
And phone calls. Don't just introverts
Dan 10:42
feel a pain, man, can you believe that even those, of course you are not a hardcore introvert, obviously, because you're more on the ambivert side. So you have both sides to your character and personality. But of course, I talked to a few really hardcore introverts who didn't have much problem, but I'm pretty sure even like a very standard introvert would still feel a lot of things is missing in his or her life.
Pouya LJ 11:04
Absolutely, because as humans, this is just those human interactions. And you know, personal touches are essential to our existence. I mean, again, yes, there are always exceptions to these, quote unquote, rules. But typically, we as humans do crave that, you know, interaction. So it was it was, I just realized how extroverted I actually am. And, yeah, so I mean, of course, you can do phone calls, you can do video calls, group, video calls, etc, all of that good stuff. But at the end of the day, there's something that is about, you know, physically being in the same place at the same time, that has a, a, you know, a comforting feeling that is always missing in these interactions. Yeah, but I still don't definitely have the hardest of times, I'm sure. Probably compared to people like yourself, but it did hit me a little bit, especially deep into after months have passed the pandemic, it definitely did hit me.
Dan 12:06
Especially you living in Canada, and and you guys are all, you know, law abiding citizens and nice guys, like you never, never, like violate anything. So I'm guessing it was much harder for you guys as well, are those nations who really followed all the health protocols? Because in some nations that I've worked in, pretty much nothing I mean, right now, for example, if you go to countries like Russia, dude, these guys have opened their strip clubs as well. So I mean, that's it's very hard to wear a mask when you're getting strict, basically dancing right there. But overall, it's, what I'm saying is it hasn't affected people equally in different nations, for sure. And since this issue really is an international issue, you see major and measurable differences between nations among their citizens, based on the rules, conventions, and how well the people follow those rules. They seem, I think that's incredibly important, basically. So as expected, of course, for us extroverts, the pressure has been much harder. Although I personally have done my very best to make sure that my social life is not going to be affected so much. Now, in addition to having basically meetings, online, from morning to night, pretty much I felt my entire schedule, make sure I'm always working. And I'm always in touch, especially communicating. And for me, that's very important. I also managed to whenever we could to actually create, you know, events and seminars as much as possible to fill up that gap if you will, even though because nowadays, it's much harder to attend, for example, like a full on party, because obviously limitations and there's no possibility of dancing. But seminars, it's a lot more feasible given that you can actually create social distancing on the audience, and so on and so forth. So I tried my very best to remain as social as possible. And be really that when it comes to extroverts, they reading to do their best to get out of the house, whatever way they can. Now, for me personally, I also have always taken my basically, sports seriously taking my fitness seriously and my workout very seriously. So during the pandemic, my actually my record has actually increased in almost all the things I do. And nowadays I exercise three times per day, so morning before going to work and basically in the afternoon when I hit the gym and at nights just for you know, relaxing walks. So I actually ended up exercising more during the pandemic, you know, than before. Ironically, it was pretty interesting. And now, fortunately, in my case, I did not have to deal with the financial aspect of the pandemic because all of our businesses, except for the ones regarding real estate, with respect to Airbnb business model, were not affected that much. So pretty much all of our businesses remains active because we managed to link them all online, except for the ones regarding the tourism because we have basically the as it proposed, Previously, on one of our posts about this Airbnb model, we actually had an episode about this completely discuss the details. So that sector because it's linked to tourism I was heavily influenced until a while back when the borders gradually got open in certain countries like Dubai, for example. But still outside of tourism, and Airbnb, Reynolds, pretty much all of our other businesses were active during the summon, in some cases actually became more profitable than before. However, and I know that in this case, I am not representing the majority of people around the world. What is instead, the case is that most people around the world unfortunately suffered financially, they lost their jobs, they tap into all of their savings. And they started, you know, accumulating credit debts for consumer basically products. And this is a very, very bad and very grainy view of the future for most of these people, because now they have to work for years just to get out of the debts they accumulate during the pandemic. So for that reason, I believe that we need to create a plan a game plan to approach both our social lives and our financial lives. Many of those so called depressions that you mentioned, or even suicides have to do with their finances. I mean, let's be honest, if you really lose your job, and then you have no income, and you have no job and no work for two years, you're, something's gonna, you know, click in your head, like, Man, I'm done with this, I'm, where's my shotgun? And you're going to have some problems, obviously, right? So for that reason, I believe we need to have a game plan to address both issues. Because our depression, in most cases has to do either with our basically emotional problems or our financial problems, because both are equally challenging to our basically psyche. And we have to find a way to address both. And obviously, I think the key here is how we can address both separately, depending on the nation culture and their lifestyles.
Pouya LJ 16:45
That's very comprehensive, I think you hit it right on, it's, it's definitely a challenge. So what I can say to those people is that you're not alone, you know, Bear Bear that in mind, and notice that this is a challenge for a lot of people. Some are luckier, of course, than others, perhaps, or more prepared, perhaps. But at the end of the day, this is this is a, this is a collective challenge. That should be a hopeful view, meaning that you're not alone. Because a lot of times these mental pressures, or more pressured by the fact that you feel like you're left out, you're alone, nobody's there with you. But at least even if it's challenge, it's a collective challenge. And I'm sure we'll get past in one way or another. Okay, so we're coming to the end portion of the show, and I want to give you the time to, you know, give it like a bring everything together if we didn't say something, do so. But before that I just have a news, which is just
17:51
what is it?
Pouya LJ 17:52
Now, the BTB podcast is also available on iHeartRadio. And iOS for the website.
Dan 18:00
I Heart Radio. That's right. We're now on radio, baby. Come on.
Pouya LJ 18:06
Yeah, so so this is this is another good news. I just received the confirmation. So congratulations to us. And
Dan 18:12
first of all, I want to congratulate you, you are the world's literally the best producer, at least for me, you're the world's best Podcast Producer, good job for you know, making the progress really, you put a lot of effort into this arranging, everything's using AI to generate, you know, the transcript of our conversations, creating new ways to publish it. And really amazing man, I congratulate you for the hard work. And yet I Heart Radio, beyond the present podcast. Oh, yeah.
Pouya LJ 18:40
It was much appreciated. And anybody who already is on the platform, I'm sure you're gonna get a kick out of it. If not deco, take a look at the platform. It's actually quite quite nice for, you know, podcasting. And they also have live live radio. So they should do that. Anyways. So getting back to our subject. Now, the time is yours, the platform is yours. if we missed anything that you wanted to add, or you want to bring everything together, please do. So
Dan 19:07
let's write very well. So we discussed in detail today about the issue of depression and suicide. We brought about the causes, but we haven't fully offered solutions of like in the last part, give a few solutions for those of us who are suffering from depression right now as we speak, or are perhaps, goodness forbid, are contemplating perhaps suicide. When it comes to depression. Of course, that's a far more prevalent issue than suicide right now. And if you all listen to us right now, and you feel depressed, you feel like your life makes no sense and that you're losing that sense of pleasure. First of all, know whether or not you have those symptoms. Pretty much depression is defined as you losing motivation and pleasures of the daily life that you used to have and no longer can feel. At the same time you also feel less motivated. So you feel like life is not as pleasant as it used to be or you don't have as much motivation. These are all right signs of early signs of depression. And you need to take action immediately. Now, what does that mean? remove the mask and start kissing people on the streets. No, don't do that, like, well, I got vaccinated, I want to kiss everybody don't do that as dangerous don't do that. So instead, what you got to do is to try to make your life social, even if you are a hardcore introvert, find ways to get social online, perhaps, or events where it's not online, but you can actually maintain your focus and also social distancing. At the same time, try your very best to remain focused on achieving certain goals, you've lost your job, you're running out of your, you know, savings, it's all okay, you could temporarily use credit, just to you know, make ends meet. But please do know that right now, most governments around the world are offering some sort of financial support to their citizens. Now, if you're living in those nations where that's not possible, still, you could be able to create some form of income. So if you're unemployed, you have no job and just said, like, man, I got no money only wires and no money, get out of the house, or at least search online for ways to generate income or find a new job, trust me in the same economy that we are dealing right now. Now, there's a lot of demand for different types of basically jobs. So it could be a courier, it could be a delivery guy. And so well, I work as an accountant, I don't want to be a delivery guy now friends on, I know, but it's a crisis. And it's much better to be active and doing something than not doing so sitting in your home and think that all the good old days and your work in your office is not going to change it. Yeah, it's not as fun to be a delivery guy or find other means of employment that are now more in demand, perhaps, if you're having it experience to work online with some other companies, but the key is keep yourself active and engaged. Success equals goals. The pandemic, unfortunately, has forced a lot of us to forget about our goals or have simply none. set new goals. Ask yourself, what are the kind of goals I can achieve during the pandemic? You want to go even further? Tell yourself, what are some opportunities that the pandemic will present me that I could never ever, ever have? For me right now, literally, the pandemic is an opportunity. And for me, the end of the pandemic is both very happy and very sad. It's going to be very sad, because I am literally going to run out of time for a very special period of opportunism. On the other hand, for a lot of people just imagine, just imagine, like you feel like Dude, pennies on the end, in seven months, I got only seven months to do all these things. Once you change your perspective, not only you will not suffer through the pandemic, as I haven't, but you will actually benefit from it right? So ask yourself, what unique opportunities does pandemic presented me, perhaps deep thoughts, meditation, self analysis, setting new goals, having deep conversations with your partner you haven't had for a long time, or finding new ways to perhaps, you know, get yourself active to open new hobbies. The pandemic is not all that bad guys, trust me. There's a lot of opportunities. They say, within every obstacle or setback, there is a hidden gift. What is that gift for you? What gift has this pandemic brought for you? Yes, the pandemic can bring you some gifts, guys, trust me. Now that's for your emotional aspect of it. Financially, if you're struggling, the story applies. Do not sit on your sofa, watch the news and say, Oh, my government is not releasing the goddamn you know, relief effort button do something I need the paycheck now. Don't sit on your ass and just wait for the government, you know, handle it, you know, a check. Instead, ask yourself how can I generate money right now. But I'm an accountant, I'm not going to work as a delivery guy. Well, you want to be unemployed, it's much better to do something that not to do something right, and get yourself out of the house or engaged to start generating income. Because the fact of the matter is, if you make very bad or poor financial decisions are in this pandemic, it might take you literally five to 10 years to get out of it. This whole pandemic could last for only two years, and then you can have to pay for it financially in terms of, you know, credit payments and credit card payments for the next seven 810 years. So why do that? Why not, instead, find a way to live below your means and maintain and control your finances. Because by doing both of these things, you first of all, get yourself busy, active and moving, which is the key and antidote to all forms of depression. And secondly, you will make sure that your finances will not basically be left without any care or any attention by doing both. Hopefully you will increase your odds of beating depression leading the pandemic And ideally, hopefully benefiting from the pandemic.
Pouya LJ 24:40
Well said, Well, I couldn't so this this whole change of perspective is really really gold out there. I don't it's a gym. I don't think a lot of people really realize and it's obviously easier said than done. When it's done. It's done, you know? Alright, well okay with our company. To the end of the show, as always, thank you then for joining us. My
Dan 25:03
pleasure, buddy. Glad to be here with you.
Pouya LJ 25:05
Thank you and thank you everybody for tuning in. As always now, you can tune in and iHeartRadio as well as you heard in a few minutes ago, until a later episode. Have a good one.
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